Attached Link: The loss of Dendras : Link to his former Site.

I've read it, pretty sad. I have only be coming here for a few days, prior to that I didn't do too much with Poser and/or other 3D programs. So I am not sure what the ins and outs of a community like this one is. I'll probably find out sooner or later although I have always been able to walk aside the flames (even on mp3.com go figure). So since I don't know Dendras work I can't say if I miss him but I do feel sorry he got screwed by a user that used his stuff in a commercial project. I work with commercial projects everyday and I wouldn't even consider using anything I found here in a commercial project without asking permission. (In most cases I would probably recreate a similar item myself though). People that don't are lowlife lamers...and people that defend their point of view simply don't get it. There...I think I said enough about something I don't know anything about. :) The Engineer.

Although many here post restrictions on not using one's free stuff commercially, unless one is backed with the legal resources of Disney or Warner Bros, it is unrealistic to expect that someone isn't going to use the free stuff commercially (or other manner clearly outside the terms of the license). It's a risk one takes when exposing oneself's (art) in public. The Chinese Army and old KGB hands are busy counterfeiting copywritten stuff made by the big boys. Anything worth stealing off the net will be done so. Consider the lack of copyright protection in Spain for props made by commercial artists that caused a ruckus here a few months ago. While honest people will follow the restrictions on your work, one must accept that there are crooks, scoundrels, swindlers, HMO claims adjusters, politicians, and other scum that have no sense of honor. Don't be upset at the whole world when someone steals the wallet you left on the park bench.

I believe there is truth to Huolong's post - as a supplier of models that I've put up for free I feel this way about it: The models I've made available for free are free. I don't even include any disclaimers about their use. To me they can be a way of building a rep for making models with well named parts and coherent scale, etc. Then if down the line I want to offer a 'For Sale' section then perhaps the free ones can help pave that road. Although I do believe if credit for components that are used commercially is possible then it should be done - (although I don't even count on people being able to manage that). BUT - I don't believe Dendra should have been banned (albeit for a short amount of time) for complaining about it (no matter how insulting he may have been)- the host(s) (and we don't know if they didn't do this) should have given him a schpleel (?) somewhere along the lines of Huolongs message and my paragraph above. I don't feel the hosts have any other obligation to any of us what happens with items we post for free. Sorry I missed the site though. - Dave www.citizendave.com

..and of course Renderotica.com has nothing to do with this site: Renderosity.com Guess I missed out too... -JH.

What is really sad about this whole thing is that most people if they DO charge to use their stuff commercially don't charge much. I think a lot of people just want control of how their stuff is used, and that is only right. I feel so bad when someone is ripped off, an not only are they ripped off but now we as a community are as well. Marque

Alright treat me as if I am a three year old. Whenever I download something and see the disclaimer I know not to post anything without asking but what exactly is posting something commercailly. Is it posting something for sale? Is it posting on a personal site? Is it posting as part of something you did to win a contest? Could someone please clarify commercial to me. Thx 4 N E help. Frost

It is using it in a commercial product, in other words I use your model to make money in a product I create. It might be a computer learning module, a game or a CD of models that I sell. It is unacceptable as the person who did all the work of creating the model is not getting paid or credit for what he/she did. Lots of people put models in freestuff so other people can see how they were created and learn from it. Others put their models up so people can use them in personal projects and get enjoyment from them. Some may put them up just to show off their work...nothing wrong with that, we all love praise when we do something well. =) But for whatever reason a model or texture or product is put into freestuff, it still belongs to the person who created it, and it is wrong to take it as one's own. Hope that helps. 8^) Marque

It depends on what the artist/modeller says is acceptable usage. Some say to use the model however the downloader wants to. Others say it can be used in whatever manner, but can not be distributed in any way, including posting on another web site or e-mailing. Some only allow usage in non-commercial projects. If someone takes a model they downloaded for free and tries to sell that model without the artist/modeller's agreement - that is flat out wrong! If they post it for free on their own web site or use it commercially (such as in a picture which they are paid to produce), then the legality/ethics depends on what the usage agreement on the website and/or text file said. If you're not sure, you should ask the creator or assume the strictest definition possible - if you stand to make any money off the model, don't use it.

What's right or what's wrong don't mean diddly squat unless you got the stroke to enforce it. If you haven't got the dough for lawyers, or hitmen, don't get upset when your license gets violated. All you do in writing up stringent controls on the use of your property is to set yourself up for frustration and anger. Citizen Dave has it right. You use your free stuff to build a market such as the folks in the Renderosity Store, BBay, and a number of other sites linked here have done. It's like the free pretzels and peanuts (salty stuff) the bar tender puts out on the bar to get you to buy a drink. If you're in the business of 3D for business, be a businessman/woman/person/...

Agreed, that's why I would never hand out something I was worried about someone using commercially. If I create it for a project, you won't see it in the freestuff section. I figure that way no one gets upset. 8^) Marque

I don't know what the Dendras matter is about, I guess I missed it somehow. As a member and frequent visitor to the forum, I like to keep informed. So I tried the link to Dendras' site, but got a "Forbidden" warning instead of the site. Was the letter posted anywhere else? It's always sad when we lose a community contributor for any reason. I guess he felt he had his reasons. I, for one, am sorry he's left us.

ABUU - I don't know how you read anything like that I was screaming liable - all I said was the host(s) should have told Dendras how to think about his free stuff - and that they should not have banned him even for a minute. Now if they were involved that's a different matter and that makes the banning even worse. But my post was in sympathy as well as a heads-up... (you know, like a 'what do you expect?' type of thing). geez - these threads are like the telephone game - where you whisper something to someone and they pass it on and after so many people the message is all wrong. everyone, pay better attention... no arguments, just do it... Dave

Gee, all I get when I click on the link is Ashlocke's website. I go away for a couple of days and things go wonky? No fair guys. From now on, you're not allowed to have any sort of crisis when I'm out of town, do I make myself clear? Huh? big grin & wink atcha Kate (in the dark and out of the loop as usual)

I agree that harping on the subject does no one any good..but the sad fact remains, the loss of a member of the community due to community (in)action/apathy. I only wish there was some way to truly express the loss I feel & I hope that the entire community feels at Dendra's departure. fear this kind of situation will all too soon become the norm now that those unethical elements within the community see that any artistic endevour (file/graphic/etc...) that is placed online can be claimed, used, & stolen at whim without concern for any ethical or moral outrage, let alone an legal action. I can see from some of the reply posts why Dendras felt betrayed by those within this "community". A tidbit to think about: What fear has anyone so inclined to use or abuse anything acquired from this site, pay or free if the so-called community simply turns it's back & says "What did you expect?". Perhaps I was raised to respect the "ethically implied" rights of a creator or Artist. Then again, I was raised during a different time & even though I am only 30 yrs of age, the world has degereated severely in those 3 decades. I see where the censorship & heavy handed labelling seen as of late in the artistic community is coming from. Perhaps these thoughts are not DIRECTLY tied to this thread, but by the gods, I think each & everone of you that reads this should consider the consequences of this path.... I shall end my babbling here, as I am sure I have lost more then half the readers who started scanning this post. Til anon, well met... Thorneldrich