I read and re-read challenge outlines and I swear I cannot see how second place winner got the prize...his image is one of the most beautiful Ive seen but doesnt meet the criteria,,,I mean where's the nature part of it? Where's the relationship? I mean either yu judge/vote according to the criteria or you just vote for your friends or simply the best image. Had I judged on best image disreguarding the criteria specified I would have mde him FIRST PLACE....but since i voted according to the specified requirements of the image he didnt even rank. So Im wondering...can I expect this kind of disreguard for the specified crteria from voters for every challenge...because honest;y that would be a waste of my time.

One of the best things about art is it's so interpretive. Where I might just see a tree on a hill, someone else might see loneliness, and yet someone else might see friendship. One of the outlines of the challenge was to show contrast of nature and technology. The lack of nature in ICM's scene in of itself could be considered the contrast. Anyways, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over a bryce challenge. It's always been the credo of most of the community members that the reward isn't really the votes, but the ability to do the art, along with anything new you learn along the way.

After the email notify, checking my gallery comments, leaving you an IM...then I come into the forum and see this. Tell ya what Mike, no worries, you go right ahead and join in the challenges. After my 3(plus) years here I've had enough exposure to the challenges. Later Rod p.s. (drinking water!!!) "Station 46"

I think that in the course of a challenge, the wips, etc. sometimes when it comes down to voting the original criteria are a dim sometimes forgotten thing, and the most accomplished image gets the votes. It would be to our advantage, if the challenges are to truely help with learning, to repost the criteria in the thread where voting takes place, as a refresher of 'what' the voters are looking for when judging the images. @Muddygrub if there is no comparsion of elements within an image then there can be no contrast. To contrast something there's needs to be 'two' elements present, in order to show unlikeness or differences between the elements.

Zhann: I'd have to disagree, although I do know what you mean. You're talking literally showing it on a page, while I'm talking interpretively. As an example, when I see ICM's image, not only do I see techno sludge, rusted metal, and polluted water, but I also see (in my mind) the beautiful stream that once was, with it's fish, and the beautiful flowered landscape that used to surround it. To me there is contrast. To someone else there may not be.

Not like I've been here long - but it seems to me that the challenges are what they are, and have to be embraced as such because they are quite simply the embodiment of the interpretations and proclivities of the voting community as reflected by the submitted exhibition pieces. There is merit in the process to be had by all, participants and non-participants alike, in the way of common mental geography, shared images and techniques, and overall cooperative development - to my mind that's the real prize here, and one thats entirely independent of criteria or votes.

Yeah! What 'miller said!

lol danamo. That's a lot of syllables!

Really really wanting to stay out of this sort of thread, but...

Prufrock81 wrote ->
"Had I judged on best image disreguarding the criteria specified I would have mde him FIRST PLACE....but since i voted according to the specified requirements of the image he didnt even rank."

Maybe I'm missing something or going blind, but (from the voting thread) you didn't vote at all.

And, ddruckenmiller... did you use a thesaurus or what lol.

Message edited on: 06/08/2004 23:47

I just noticed that Kemal gave Prufrock and ICM both 3 points. lol Woops. I demand a recount! (joking)

The great Bryce-gate voting scandal begins (joking also).

Hopefully, this will not become some desegration of opinion, but I do have to admit that, regardless how wonderful a piece of art an entry may be, the contests do have "themes". I should think that each artist should give a brief explanation of how their work meets the requirements of the theme. In many of the last contests I would view an image and think, "Fantastic Image, But What's that got to do with ---" Then I would read the artist's explanation. I may agree or disagree, but there would be an understanding. I have seen entries that I just don't "Get", if the right explanation was offered, then maybe I would. Times like these, I need a second drink... do pardon me.

Maybe I saw ICM's image differently to others. I saw a technical room, a marvel created by man that, despite man's power, was still being overrun and destroyed by one of natures most important and powerful forces, a substance without which none of us would be here... Water. Personally I think the best image won first place. ;-)

As someone who gave ICM some votes, the water was representative of nature to me. There is no life (that I know of) on Earth that does not depend on water for its existence. That was how I saw it in ICM's entry. It was obvious (to me) that industry (technology) conflicting with nature (by polluting the water) was right on the money as far as the theme goes. Art is so open to personal interpretation, that there will always be some disagreement. John

Thats how I saw ICMs image as well, Phil and tjohn.

But I can definitely see some merit in Nukeboys suggestion - maybe the theme notes could be put in the little description space we get for the challenge entries. ddruckenmiller - lol, that explains soo much ;)

Message edited on: 06/09/2004 01:06

See! tjohn feels the same way. Great minds think alike. And we both created cyber creatures for the challenge. :-)

(On Agent Smith's behalf) Let us not forget that rust, corrosion, and oxidation are natural processes too. In rust we trust! DDD OBO AS

Having voted for both ICM and Prufrock, my two cents' worth is that I felt ICM's image followed this guideline "Either showing technology intruding or working with nature, or vice versa." Instead of a lake, there's a body of water artificially contained and pumped. The 'contrast' specified in the first part of the guidelines isn't spelled out, but I find it kind of implicit in the image.

Thanks for all of the responses. IM really not trying to be a sore "loser" because I agree that no one "loses" we all benefit from the challenges and the practice. I like Nukeboy's suggestion also. Had mention of rust and algea and mildew been mentioned I would have auto matically seen the intention of the artist (if that was his intention) and voted for it. (By the way where IS the link usually for voting?? Im such a noob I never saw a "call to vote" or a poll anywhere and IM sure it was under my nose the whole time too. Little help plz.... In any case - good thread and let it NOT detract from the wonderful work of art that won. Indeed it was exqusite.

Yup, under your nose, lol. It's ALWAYS in the forum header (most EVERYTHING is always in the forum header) I had it in big, bright yellow letters. But, I'm canceling that since I saw the forum in the default white background (yuck), and couldn't see the yellow lettering... So, now ya know, no more no voting excuses! ;o) --------------- Well...not really the best way to bring this subject up (by publically pointing at someone)...ahem, but I suppose it brought up a good discussion. Broadened everyone's minds a bit, I guess.... Yup, interpretation. Some Mods won't allow certain entries into their contest/challenges, because they don't see how a certain picture follows the theme, etc. I usually see it as, I can't dictate what one person sees in their vision when thingking of "mother technology", so...who am I to tell you? That, and I assume if a pic really doesn't fit the bill, it probably won't be voted for, lol. AND...while the entrant has a vision....so does the voter, to a degree. Not only will they see the "theme", but what that theme means to them, and really what certain picture(s) fit BOTH those bills. (and, yes...does it look cool) AgentSmith

Oh, yes...actually meant to mention that one point MUCH earlier; "Kemal gave Prufrock and ICM both 3 points" Yup that's true, and when a typo happens in a vote, I don't count any of the 3 votes from that member. *But...just in case (since we DO have prizes now) I went ahead and added up "hypothetical" scores counting Kemal's votes, both in the situation where prufrock would have gotten the 3 votes and ICM got 1 point...and also where prufrock would have gotten 1 point and ICM got the 3 points. In all 3 situations (the 2 hypothetical and the real/final one), the ranking of the threee winners were excatly the same. AgentSmith

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I want "sticky posts" SO bad I can taste it..... (and it tastes...well, sticky) AS

(with a metallic, rusty aftertase...)

Hmm, the vote thread thing was in bright red letters here (and I thought I was on the default background).

Careful....don't make me make them flash like a strobe. (how utterly annoying would that be?) AS

If you do that, we'll tell the merchants that you're just testing a new feature (the flashing strobe thing) thats about to be used in the marketplace.....

Message edited on: 06/09/2004 09:15

Oh...can you say "riot"?

It would be almost as annoying as gallery comments that go baaaackkk...and forrrrthhhh... baaackkkk and fortthhhhh. I just made myself seasick.

hi folks whats the link to the results page for that round? great pic rod dunno what the fuss is about. rich

There aint no fuss. and LMAO @ Grub *hands him some dramamine

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I was going to say almost the same thing as Prufrock81 in the voting thread,but thought to not stir up any bad feelings... Honestly ICM, this does not mean that the image isn't one of the best I have seen.But as far as criteria,I thought it did not met it.So I only gave you an Honorable Mention.
Then again I never met my very own criteria by using a poser figure in a Bryce Challenge.So Let's get on with the June challenge.

**I know what you mean Muddygrub,lol!! :) **

lol danamo.. GRRRRR