First the good, bryce is alive.Now the bad, at what cost? I think its cool that DAZ bought bryce from corel(corel is retarded in my opinion).Now why I am worried.From the posts made by DAZ "People" it seems that thier main focus and goal is the "tight integration" of bryce and DAZ products.I personally would never pay for crap that I can make myself(models,textures,ect).But the main focus of the new bryce seems to be a money making scheme on DAZ's part.They seem pretty hush hush on any new features besides the daz bryce thing with "Their Products".All of the most promising new features(that any advanced bryce user wants) seems not to be included in the "minor fixes&addons" request at the daz forum.All the cool stuff we want(bones&rigging,adv lighting,modeling,better texturing,particals,animation overhule,tree lab improvements,ect).I could care less about DAZ being integrated into my 3d environment(a boning&rigging feature would be better).This is the first bryce I will not buy and its sad.I will continue to use Bryce5 and support the community that I love,but it seems the time has come for me to focus more on C4D,and making freebies for bryce 5'ers.I'm sure this is not felt by others, but I was hoping for a new advanced bryce, not a "poser with bryce functions" 3d app.Long live the creators of bryce,we will miss you.

I'm taking a 'wait and see' approach to all this hooha, we've been promised stuff before only to have it be entirely different than what was wanted, hmmmmm........

I'm with Zhaan on this one, they just bought it like couple days ago !!! :) Time will show !

I agree zhann and kemal, lets take a look at this even through a monitary veiw, they will need to appeal to all not just daz studio users and also apeal to advanced users to compete with vue and apeal to a braoder group. Time will tell.

Yea, but c'mon, If it was going to be cool we all would know it by now.What company buys a product almost oblivios to what the current community wants(feature wise).I'm sorry but thats bad buisness.A wish list!!!! C'mon there are sites dedicated to this crap.A simple google will bring it up.DAZ seems to be exploiting 3d newbies that are not well informed about it(3d art).Why apply pre-made crap when you should be learning as much as possible to advance your art.Zhann,you(rochr,me,AS soon,prollyBazze,and alot of others) use C4D, don't say that you would have rather heard of C4D like functions to be added(even the basic modeling and texturing even) than better "DAZ product integration,and minor bug fixes".To me,thats bryce5.5,give us a real update.I have a small bit of hope,but only because I am stubborn.I will not pay for what they have said though,seems all of the bryce lovers need to wait till version 7(waiting once again).

Also I have a few other reasons that this is a bad thing.One,freebies drive the bryce community in a major way(it would be even larger if there was modeling).2, they will NEVER add a boning and rigging system like C4D,Max,LW,ect.Why,simple,If I made a figure(lets say 100 times cooler than mike or vicky) and then boned and rigged it in bryce,I could give it out for free.It would be just as functional as any daz fig,just as posable(all in bryce).BUT, mine would be free,thus making buying daz figs for money stupid.I guarentee there would be a lot of free figures(at par or better than daz).They will not do this,it would kill buisness(it would be real bad if the free stuff started to eclipse all thier pay for models).

TwistedBolt, I understand your frustration about a program you love, bryce has been at a stand still for a long time it has lost ground in the market place, i can only hope daz will continue what metacreations did and corel started and droped and listen to the users! : ) The trend latley has been compatibility with other programs like vue with poser (mover) and carrera and poser (transporter) i think co. are finaly getting the message and they are listening, those that dont will loose and they know this thats why the surveys of course and i`m thinking that daz needs more time with bryce to do it justice. sincerly, kim

TwistedBolt, hmm, didnt think of that...posing in other programs like poser, that would be sooo coool! TwistedBolt, 3 cheers for knowing how to model some day soon ill teach myself that also : )

Well,.........at least Curious Labs or AutoDesk didn't buy it !

There is already plenty of opportunity to spend hours creating Poser/Daz content in applications and giving it away for free. If you have lots of free time and no need to use it for survival then you can run them out of business as is. You don't need to wait for a new kind of Bryce. If Bryce did get that kind of functionality some would make freebies and some might try and sell their efforts here or Daz or somewhere else. There does seem to be a disturbing thread building that the only good product is one that doesn't benefit the owner. It's not just here but all over the Web. A kind of "I want it for free, cater to my needs and if it benefits you, then you're exploiting me." Just a final level check, I know there are people that Are shamelessly exploiting buyers and producing poor products and giving little service for too much money. I don't like that either. I just don't see the Daz thing as being inherently evil.

@Kim258,"daz needs more time with bryce to do it justice",YESSS! But they seem to be pumping out this new version stating bug fixes and the whole daz integration.Those seem fine,for an update mind you, but not something to pay for(as the figures already cost money).As far as the whole program compatibility,take this into mind,All new major apps support .FBX file export/import.That includes lighting,textures,animation,ect.The only compatibility this(daz integration) will give is between poser,DS,Cararra,Daz stuff.As long as it exports .obj,or .FBX, it will be compatible with all apps(poser,DS,Cararra,C4D,Lightwave,Max,Maya,Houdini,XSI). This is why I am so worried,its not really compatible, except with other Daz like buisness ventures.Bryce would be bought by the truck load if it could export to say C4D or Max,even maya.Bryce has the best terrain maker in the world hands down.I just Hope they address this.Also practice hard on the modeling,it may be slow at first but it gets better(and its fun to tell a company like daz to shove it because your models are better).

@deci6el -"If you have lots of free time and no need to use it for survival then you can run them out of business as is." Actually I am trying to do that,When bryceman2 comes out(and for free) you will wish that bryce had boning options(sadly there will be seams at the joints,because no boning).Bryceman2 will be better looking than the mike mesh(and posable in bryce5).I support RochR's comments in the previous threads as well,if anyone has gone deep into bryce its him.Yet DAZ seems oblivious to his comments,arguably the best brycer at the moment.That just puts me off sorta.They also seem to be "collecting" good bryce artists for thier forum to collect "street cred" among the bryce community(which is damn hard).I want to hear from Ornlu on this as well.Where is he?

Another of my concerns (and I haven't the patience to find the links I've posted) is that when DAZ first started talking about Studio, they said that the "Base" would be free, but certain add-ons or plug-ins would come at a price. Is this what we are to see with B6? "Hey, you get all the good stuff of B5, but if you want to import .obj's or have a DTE, pony up some extra bucks! And, btw, the Tree Lab can only be purchased by Platinum Members..."

Right on! I remember that as I read through thier forums.I thought I may have misread it,but you too.They may charge for cool stuff like an export function,or any cool stuff for that matter.I cant see why everybody is all "well,just wait and see",if we dont say stuff now it will be to late when the "new" bryce comes out,and its a turd.I bet alot that daz will never make me eat my words, but I wish they would(i just dont see it).

Unrelated comment that shall surely segue into meaningful dialog: Having been a life-long Republican, I was amazed to be elected as a Union Shop-Steward. Apropos to this situation, I was amazed at the "power" the the lowly bargaining unit had. Very simple; the commercial world works off the economic vote: If you like a product (and find it valuable) you will pay for it (and the supplier will thrive). If a product is "forced down your throat (i.e. you do not like it) eventually, that business will die. This is where the "pure" economic model collapses. If it is a product that you cannot live without, economic vote is meaningless... you will pay whatever you must. But in this case, I think the econmomic model works. If DAZ screws it up, there are numerous (although not as well placed) companies to pick up the slack. If DAZ offers this community what it wants (within reason) then this community will ensure that DAZ thrives. Vice these conditions, well..

Expect the worst, hope for the best.

I think DAZ is well aware of the economic model and how it works.For example,DAZ is now at the top of all the lower to mid-range 3d apps.It now has the best of them,if its render was sped up,vue poser and friends would die from competition.I can easily see DAZ stop supporting poser if its better when integrated with bryce(vicky&mike would be the model to have)if it had bryce only functions.It would topple poser like nothing,and blow away vue with faster,better looking renders.It could make alot of curiouslabsPoser users mad and jump ship to the better app.They have sort of a corner on the lowend market now,and keeping it that way by not adding more compatibility with other apps(more modeling functions,boning,better render solutions,GI,HDRI,.FBX import export,ect.)They are essentially holding back the bryce user because they want to keep you in the "fold" so to speak."if our users can model,we become an app maker, but we sell models!" is probably what makes them do it.That and if enough time goes by the bryce app will be so archaic compared to the new methods being developed,that they will never upgrade it because it is sooo far behind(normal mapping being very important in the new 3d technology set of tools).Someone needs to tell daz to hire all the original bryce programmers.

TwistedBolt, "Someone needs to tell daz to hire all the original bryce programmers" Well said, that would be a smart thing!

DAZ has just aquired Bryce. They are asking the community for feature requests for BR6 in the Bryce Talk forum. Sheesh at least give them time to work on the update. http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=5296 At least Bryce will have a chance of going somewhere. It was dead dead dead with Corel. FYI: Bryce is available for $79, on sale for $59 and PC Members get it for $42 - The import plug-in comes free if you buy Bryce before July 28th. Enough with the doom and gloom!

I bought bryce 5 when it came out,so a low price is not relevent....also where is my free plugin...wait I dont need it.And in the meantime a bug fix would be great,I could wait a whole 2 more years for version 6,instead of minimal advances.Also,Daz really isn't that experienced in making applications,and DS in no more than a clone of poser.They have no good points to thier getting bryce except they now have "money" behind the app.Not optimistic when it comes to mismanagement of a wonderful app.I'm also aware that they "just got the app".In good buisness one usually makes inquirys to something if they are going to make a purchase.Why do they need all this info,its already on the web,in every bryce forum.The threads over there,although new, have tons of Poser people already jamming the works up.I dont even see thier own bryce forum competing with this one,what makes you think they can handle the app well.Lets hope they wise up and spend alot of time developing the app before a release.

What a positive post, you'd think someone (or Bryce) had died when in actual fact it appears to an independent observer that there has at least been the detection of a heartbeat if not the chance of a rescuscitation. Get off the Cross Twister you sound like an isralite whingin in Moses' face. Nothin bad has happened, yet to listen to you we're all doomed. Correction we were doomed seemingly until Daz, a " business" bought Bryce a "commodity", which they are "rumoured" to be hoping to "integrate seamlesly" with their existing "stable" of "affordable" "models" and "tools" in the quest for "profit". Thanks for the economics lecture also, you must be part of some global economics think tank or some other such influential body- darnit you should a bought bryce!!! And delivered us from DAZ!!! Do me a favour save your whining until you've got something pertinent to whine about. And, incidentally I've got lots and lots of DAZ products and tools which I am pretty happy with and joy of joys the majority are "high quality" freebies or cost a few pence- but hey I'm an animator not a modeller or precious purist as I use other apps as well. In fact i use as many as allow me the time to be more creative rather indulging in drudgey 'workarounds' and until they introuduced an affordable one-stop solution I'll appreciate anything that means working between apps, but then my glass is haf full. The reason i bought these things: I wanted to it's known as consumer sovereignty at the risk of sounding patronising Your rant is immature twisted, have a look back and see, and try and take on board some of the, positive if cautious statements you'll read from others.

I have to agree with TwistedBolt.

Also:
One of Bryce's problems is it's reputation in other communities. Intergrating the application with other DAZ product will make it's reputation even worse. I totally understand (maybe not agree) those people saying that poser is like "dressing up a Barbie doll bla bla..."

I'm unfortunately leaving Bryce more and more because I want to create more and more myself.

Message edited on: 06/24/2004 05:26

LOL, imanwillie, thats some funny stuff, yep, couple of people got somewhat negative and overly excited about it, it always happens, i remember, same thing happend when corel bought it, but than, again, everybody was praising it too, corel, big company, they have power, money, they gonna make it the best app in the whole damn world, and what happend ??? We have to keep our hopes up, that's our only choice :) And yes, i would happily fork out some cash for Radiosity, direct poser import, shorter rendering times and some bug fixes, hell, corel did not give us even half of that in upgrade and i still paid 135 US$ for it ! If Bryce 6 is anything less then i mentioned in my previous sentence i will simply not buy it, I'm saving money for cynema 4D as we speak, just in case !!! :)

"money making scheme on DAZ's part"

*Well, yeah, other than producing 3D content, they are in the business of making as much money as possible, as is any business.

"They seem pretty hush hush"

*At least they communicate to us, something Corel never, ever did. And, in their business with competitors, you have to be quiet until a date of release, just the way it is. ;o

"All the cool stuff we want" (bones&rigging)

*Bones & Rigging?? I don't know....think you will need to go learn a different program for that, although we stretch it, Bryce IS a landscape program.

"This is the first Bryce I will not buy and its sad"

*That has GOT to be the quickest, least informative judgement call I have ever heard, lol. (imho)

"If it was going to be cool we all would know it by now"

*Nope, untrue.

**The plugin for Poser to Bryce is absolutely, positively neccesary. Now, some of you who do not have Poser or use Poser will not even begin to understand this. A quick, perfect transition from Poser to Bryce has been one of the top requests for Bryce since the days of MetaCreations. That ability MUST exsist first as to garner even more interest than just the Bryce user group. It is a business strategy, and a no-brainer. The rest WILL come later.

"If I made a figure(lets say 100 times cooler than mike or vicky) and then boned and rigged it in Bryce,I could give it out for free"

*Hasn't happened yet in all these years, even with all the programs out there that can model traditionally. Sure, there are some free original figures out there, yet none as professional as Mike 3 or Vicky 3. But, then again they have never had TwistedBolt's no nonsense attitude, huh? ;o)

"All new major apps support .FBX file export/import.That includes lighting,textures,animation,etc."

*Yup, I agree! In a major version update Bryce really should support FBX to keep it's head above water with Vue Pro.

"Bryce would be bought by the truck load if it could export to say C4D or Max,even maya"

*Exactly! I don't believe DAZ ignorant enough to NOT have Bryce have that capability. If it means more revenue and a progression of their products, I can' think of why any business wouldn't at least attempt it.

"I cant see why everybody is all "well,just wait and see"

*We DON'T mean "lets keep quiet and see", we mean why STRESS the heck out over certain aspects of all this if it is unknown and will remain that way until an announcement? The emotional aspect of this can get ridiculous, its all specualtion. Yet...what's new, lol.

**SO, what I DO suggest is sigining up for DAZ (Free) just to be able to speak your mind over there at their forum (everybody). We didn't wait this long to just to sit on the sidelines!!!

If we CAN have some influence in DAZ's "to do" list...all the freaking better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AgentSmith

reminds me of the frantic threads in the Poser forum prior to Poser 5..and we know how that turned out..;)
As I understand it from the threads, Daz will integrate Bryce into a 'suite' of products. Taking the Microsoft Office suite for comparison(I support it at work, so it's something I know), you can do graphics in Word, databases in Excel, and calculations in Access, but it's a lot easier to do cut/paste/imports between them. They're all seperate packages, but each isn't out to destroy the other. I think Daz will allow for easier import (via the plugin) of people..and just as an observation, pictures with people in them seem to get more hits than those with none. I hope that Daz continues working on a future version of Bryce, and doing an RFC (request for comments) with it's base of Brycers is a smart move. If you don't see something you like, then add it to the list. Who knows what they'll come up with. Software development being what it is, I won't be surprised if Bryce 6 is still being tweaked a year from now (but likely to be coming soon).
Face it, having someone paying the bills and working on improvements beats the old Corel situation..I'm just happy the programmer's checks are still cashing..;)

My Gawd, such doom and gloom! A company comes along, and pull's Bryce long dead butt out of the fire, the DAY they release it for sale, they discount it almost 25% to build even MORE Bryce users, AND they release a plug in that imports Poser characters with all thier textures applied for the lordly sum of $1.99 if you are one of thier PC members, and all you guys can do is bitch about it? (NOT directed to those not bitching.) What they hell were you like BEFORE Daz bought Bryce, and it was a dead issue? I'd think you guys would be jumping in their new Bryce forums (as some have already) pointing out wish list websites, giving them feedback for a better Bryce. Instead, you waste your energies lamenting on things you don't even know will happen. Daz ONLY announced this YESTERDAY. They have ALREADY accomplished something Corel AND CL never did, with the Poser Importer. There's an old saying that fits in VERY well here: If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Get your lazy, whiney butts over to the Daz forums, where they've ASKED for feedback on what YOU want in the next version, instead of just ASSUMING the worst, which would actually be the total lack of movement from the cooling corpse that Bryce WAS, and no longer is.

DAAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!!!!!!!!!!! BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!!!!!!!!!!! DAAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not a Bryce 5 which has ceased to be living.... This is an EX Bryce5.....

Well, all I have to say is this:

If you don't sign up at DAZ (for free) and put your wishes in the wishlist....
Then when a new Bryce is released you will have no business bitching at all.

But I can hear it already. "Bitch, bitch, bitch, rant,rant,rant, but I didn't offer anything in the wishlist. Everyone else did."

first,i already put everything on the wishlist there,which has the same things as everyone else.I'm not frantic in any way(I own LW,C4D,Zbrush,every version of bryce,and a few free ones),Bryce "dying" already happened awhile ago in my mind(when the original team left).I'm not bitching about it,I'm just saying what it "looks" like to me,thats it.I'm only playing devils advocate here guys,dont go crazy on me now.Also, whats this

In 3 days Daz has done more to ensure that Bryce information and the program itself is more readily available
and visible than in the entire time at its previous owner.
and I cannot help but take that as a indicator of a positive future for Bryce at Daz for all Brycers.

Twisted Bolt Wrote:
"I bought bryce 5 when it came out,so a low price is not relevent...."

Guess what, untill yesterday Bryce 5 was off the market discontinued and unavailable which meant no new users.
Unless Bryce is your personal toy then to build & grow the app for everyone else besides you, who would like to purchase & use Bryce 5, someone needed to have the guts to drop the $ on Corel & get Bryce back into the stores & into development for the rest of us.
myself included.
Therfore DAZ using their marketing Skills, Poser & last but not least, pricing to introduce new users & revive the Bryce user base is entirely relevant .

Ragging on Daz & negativly speculating on & maligning their intentions, abilitys & products
less than 24hours after they announce they rescued your "Bryceyer than thou butts" from undeveloment & stagnation is not "playing the devils advocate it's just plain pathetic.
Sincerly yours
"One of the Poser people over there jamming up the works", as you put it. :-P

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Tybalt, can't you tell them how you REALLY feel? ;)

Tybalt: Thats bull.. did you check the Europoean Amazon sites?

Message edited on: 06/25/2004 17:11

"Guess what, untill yesterday Bryce 5 was off the market discontinued and unavailable which meant no new users." No offense but, HUH? Actually, Bryce has never been off the market for purchase since it came out. It could always be purchased at Corel, (as well as other sites). Just FYI. "Bryceyer than thou butts" *THAT has GOT to be my new favorite motto, lol. TOO funny! AS