I'm not sure if it's even possible with the script that's being run here in the forums, but I think it would be a benefit to some here if one were to be able to view another's "post count". Not for any other reason but to know the participation level of someone posting in rebuttal or opposition to someone else. The reasoning behind this is that it would be much more efficient for participants in the community to sort out possible "trolls" and understand who we're conversing with (long-time members, etc). Recently, I've been finding that trolls are usually judged by their contributions to the galleries, free stuff, etc., but there's no way to assertain if a person contributes to the site in other ways like the forums. Some of us have our reasons for not contributing to the galleries, and it troubles me when people judge the weight of your contributions to the community solely on that. I'm not referring to anyone specific here, just an overall observation that occured to me recently. Some of us may contribute just as much to the forums as others do to the galleries, but no one would ever know that. Anyway, just a mild suggestion to ponder. :-) PS: if there already is a way to view post count, then I apologize for the error, but then it's a case of making it easier to find.

That always kind of bothered me, too - people thinking that just because you don't have anything in the galleries, that you are a troll, etc. I only have two pictures in the galleries, and just put them there about a month or two ago. (I spend far too much time collecting characters, clothing and props than actually making pictures with them!) I've been posting to the forums for at least a year. I know in some of the other BB systems they have a count of posts underneath their avatar picture. It would at least give you an idea if a person was posting at all, and how often. Don't know if it would give you any indication if they were a troll or not....;-)

I agree. It wouldn't give a definitive indication of one being a troll, but it would help identify someone who contributes to the forums (which is probably just as meaningful to the website as the galleries are). Also, it would help newcomers better understand who is contributing to the site in what way. There should at least be some kind of "measuring stick" for active participants to the forums, not just those who contribute to the other areas of the site. It's kind of like the forums currently have no cohesive identifying factors compared to other areas of the site.

never happen- 'osity dosn't want to exclude ANY potential money spending customer- don't kid your self for one single minute that this place is anything more or less then a business. nor do they want to separate new customers from us older members, mores the pitty.

ah..%^&..they're on to me..;) I'm harmless..mostly..;)

This is a topic that has appeared here about once every six months, for several years now. The old members vs. the new, the trolls vs. the legitimate members. I wish we could move past it, because to me it looks like the old "some are more equal than others" fallacy that has infected the privileged classes in years (or centuries) past. In other words, very elitist and undemocratic. Maybe more open--mindedness is what we need. For all we know, the new guys can have some good ideas, good input, if we just ignore whatever "pecking order" the elitists might try to impose on us.

Be advised that mateo sancarlos is being talked about on other sites as possibably being an alias of an admin member here. He trolls forum post to support the sites rules and to belittle anyone elses opinions about them. Just a heads up

Attached Link: Gallery Image

Well, quite a few people thought so. The person is either a troll or someone with some pretty twisted views about fairies. Either way, IMHO, I think it was an inappropriate comment.

Good grief. This site works just like the media/ones parents. If some troll comes in yaks a lot of crap...peeps post and bitch...everyone goes & looks at the image in question & either agrees/disagrees. Therefore we add more comments/views to the pic in ?. It's like parents saying Uh Oh....bad stuff don't look/touch etc...but we all look. Why??? We are all voyeurs & want to look ie. the forbidden fruit so to speak.

This arguement is so old.......and I for 1 am NOT putting on a tin foil hat worried about who is undercover or who is not...I don't care!!!! I have real life issues to deal with rather than some person who might be faking there position.

I myself do NOT judge anyone based on a gallery or anything else. Sometimes people are better critics than doers.....I look at all comments as legit and evaluate from there. I would also NEVER bitch about a troll...simply because I don't care. Not worth my time. Flame away :)

Message edited on: 08/05/2004 20:00

Agreed !!! ;-)

I think it might more more helpful to include a list of some of the forum regulars in the form of a new members FAQ and what their specialties are. Regulars here know about Geep and his tutorials, Ockham's knowledge of Python and scripting, etc, but it would be nice if new members had a little head-start on knowing who's who around here. I'm very thankful for those who always tell new Poser users about my seam guides, not because I want the credit, but because understanding and finding templates isn't really the first thing a new Poser user is going to tinker with. I don't think a post count really measures how much a member contributes to the community; it's what they accomplish within the posts they do make. :) Just my opinion as always. Take care. SnowS

I would personally like to see (along with posting numbers) the persons sex, age, nationality, religious persuasion, marital status, and of course an 8 x 10 color glossy photograph with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explainin' what each one was to be used as evidence against us.... ooops sorry, slipped into Alices' Resturaunt.... ---- pzrite (aka Leee): (not enough posts to be a veteran, but more than enough not to be a troll)

" This is a topic that has appeared here about once every six months, for several years now. The old members vs. the new, the trolls vs. the legitimate members. I wish we could move past it, because to me it looks like the old "some are more equal than others" fallacy that has infected the privileged classes in years (or centuries) past. In other words, very elitist and undemocratic. " "Elitist and undemocratic" seems to be the excuse for everything around here. The intention I proposed didn't seem to me to be elitist. It's something almost every other board on the internet has, and seems to be enjoyed by most. If this is an issue that gets raised every six months for years, please point me to previous discussions about it so I can read them. I've been here for 6 months or more and haven't seen it raised yet (post count). Also, I just did a search for the term "post count" here in the forum, and turned up no results but for my own thread on the subject. It seems fruitless to even suggest any kind of possible improvements to this otherwise outdated BBS script (no direct offense to Rosity, but they know the script lacks many features that are a given by today's BBS standards), because immediately the paranoid concerns of the community becoming "elitist" are raised. All I have to say to that is... look around. It's already elitist. Oh well, just a thought. I'll go away now. :-)

Hey maxx, I think the point can be valid from both sides, I think seeing a post count is cool and informative, but to be fair it does give some people (non-trolls) a bit of an inferiority complex. I know I've felt that way on other boards where my post count is 20 compared to other's in the hundreds or even thousands! A post count does produce an unintentional feel of being in different classes or levels. In fact on a lot of boards they DO divide the amounts into different levels (newbie, pro, etc)

Message edited on: 08/05/2004 20:50

Hmmm....of course, the word "elite" has mostly a negative connotation, but it merely means "a group enjoying superior intellectual, social or economic status". You could say that a certain small group of people on 'rosity enjoy an "elevated intellectual status" bestowed upon them by their peers here - people like Geep and Ockham and SnowSultan. I don't personally consider this bad - they have earned that status by their knowledge and contributions. I think you will find this in any "community" or "gathering of folk" - certain members "rise to the top" - natural leadership abilities, organizational abilities, food-getting abilities, what have you.... It's a neutral thing - can be used for good or evil ;-) Anyway, what this has to do with the original suggestion, I have no idea GRIN

Hey, Pzrite, Just look at it this way - the people who have their posts into the hundreds and thousands, probably don't have a life and spend all their time online anyway! ;-) Sort of like myself! ;-)

Cyhiraeth, very true. And the only reason I don't have more posts is because I'm too busy playing with Poser ;-) Or as my wife likes to say "playing with my dollies" Geez that really irks me!

LOL! You do have a point.

I don't think a high post count is necessarily a sign you're among the elite. I used to hang out at a Usenet group where someone compiled and posted monthly statistics, with the number and percentage of posts of the top 50 or so posters. It was his way of protesting OT posts and people who hog bandwidth by posting zillions of messages a day, so the last thing I wanted was to be high on the list.

" Hey maxx, I think the point can be valid from both sides, I think seeing a post count is cool and informative, but to be fair it does give some people (non-trolls) a bit of an inferiority complex. I know I've felt that way on other boards where my post count is 20 compared to other's in the hundreds or even thousands! A post count does produce an unintentional feel of being in different classes or levels. In fact on a lot of boards they DO divide the amounts into different levels (newbie, pro, etc)" Yes, you have a good point there, and I certainly know the feeling of having single digit post counts on other boards, but it can also be viewed as incentive to participate in discussions/threads all the more. ;-) PS: To be honest, if any enhancement to the forum were imminent, my first suggestion (or wish) would be the ability to "quote" other people's posts in a thread so I didn't have to waste time doing it manually. LOL. ;-)

Yep, I agree, you can really get spoiled with all those forum board bells and whistles. A choice of a zillion smiley faces would be nice too!

I think one of the posts above was sensible. If somebody says something you don't like, just take it easy and don't get upset. No need to show your own weakness and insecurity by labelling people trolls. It's just the Poser forum, not a life-and-death struggle between mighty keyboard warriors for dominance, ala Monty Python or whatever. Just enjoy the site, play it cool, don't let things worry you needlessly.

And I know it's not about me, but I'm just one of the members here, no different than anyone else. They asked me to help them out with some stuff here, but I'm not an admin or anything. No official capacities here. I'm happy to help them out by supporting the site with positive comments, but anything I say is just my opinion.

It isnt how much or how little people contribute to galleries or freestuff or even forums that makes them a troll, it is what they actually say. Some people do seem to go through galleries making nasty comments about pictures and I would call that sort trolls whatever kind of contributions they do or dont make.

Tread carefully. Nobody likes a self-appointed policeman.

Hummm, let me see. Do we also list who buys what or who downloads what free stuff and if they don't contribute they are ostrisized? What is up with this? You say that if someone doesn't post in the galleries but makes comments they are a troll? I don't post in the galleries, but I buy a lot of stuff from folks who do. I don't say mean things about people, but if something isn't right I try to give constuctive comments. xantor is right. I don't personally care who does what here as far as posting, and I don't think it would matter anyway. People would just use an alias. Let it go. Just enjoy this site for what it is. I like the folks here for the most part. I sometimes check out the galleries but not often. I always hit the store as soon as I come in and then check out the forums. Actually it's not anyone's business but the mods here to know where I spend my time. Marque

Next you'll want us to have cute little avatars next to our post. Sorry if I seem like a jerk but I really hate those cutsey little forums. Love ya Daz but that's one reason I don't hang out there. Marque

LOL! I never imagined suggesting a "post count" in the forums would be the least bit controversial. Some of the posts in this thread I have no idea what the hell they are even talking about, or to WHO they are speaking. This is one reason posting to these forums can get CONFUSING, and why threads just simply become a public soap-box for no reason. It's due to the lack of user-based tools, such as a quote function, that makes threads disjointed and generalized. "You say that if someone doesn't post in the galleries but makes comments they are a troll?" Who are you speaking to? If that's to what I had posted originally, then the answer is NO. That's not what I'm saying. However, it is common that when someone trolls, there's often someone accusing them of trolling along with the additional comment of "he has nothing in his gallery, he has no free stuff contributions", etc. It gives people the impression that if they have no gallery or free stuff, that they don't contribute in any way, and that's not the case. So it was a suggestion to BENEFIT people who do contribute in more than just the common ways, not the other way around. I'm starting to wish I never even made a suggestion, because things get twisted so ASS BACKWARDS around here it's not even funny. :-(

Sorry. It just struck me wrong. In the end this site is up because of the store, plain and simple. And since I spend money here I find the forums to be here for my convenience. I just hate the idea of being counted. Get enough of that in the regular world. I just want to come here and enjoy myself and not worry about contributing. And I have been here since before the store started so I don't think of myself as a newbie. Marque

I hang out here mostly becuase it comes across with larger text on my screen, and I don't see as well as I used to. What makes a "real" member as opposed to a troll? Number of comments? If they post their work? Quality of comments. Do they tell about themselves on their Artist Page? There are a lot of people who never reply to post, have any information on their artist page, or leave a comment, but they're members. What insures their membership? They spend money here. If you're going to keep track of number of posts, why not keep track of the amount they've spent? Then we'd know what kind of investment they have in the 'sity. No, I'm not serious about the suggestion. I'm just not fond of anything that keeps another track on me. I've got enough things keeping count on the things I do. I don't want anything else that can get me in trouble with my parole officer. - again - just kidding! I haven't been caught yet! Besides, with my number of posts, it could be embarassing.

I've been called a TROLL...

I've been called a TURD...

I've been called a HYPOCRATE...

I've also been called IRRATIONAL!

I gotten offended a few times, but it passes.
I've been here a little while, but at one point had nothing in my galleries or freestuff like many others.
I've seen a lot of complaints about such complaints and have grown to realize I'll see many more.
Opinions differ here, and people feel a need to express their own.
Let em speak, and you'll learn something.
If nothing else, it's a reminder of how different we are.
As for organized TROLL SPOTTING...
People tend to hang themselves, we don't need to be doing it for them.

"As for organized TROLL SPOTTING... People tend to hang themselves, we don't need to be doing it for them." It's not JUST about troll spotting... eh, I give up. Why did I suddenly get a vision of 100 people sitting at their computers with sheets of tinfoil wrapped tightly around their monitors for fear their posts are being "counted". Insert climactic theme music to any mystery/thriller movie here. ;-) I would have made this thread a poll just to see how many people would like to see a postcount functionality in the forums, but they don't have dynamic polls you can attach to your posts here either. Maybe it's that whole "fear of being counted" thing everyone seems to have. ;-P All kidding aside, this was obviously a bad idea/suggestion. We should all move along quietly now.

Quote: "LOL! I never imagined suggesting a "post count" in the forums would be the least bit controversial." Well, there you have it! There are different opinions about that. Like about everything in life. I don't miss a post count to tell me who's posting how much. Not how much one says matters to me, but what he says. I like this place as a valued source of information. The most people posting here are searching for information or stuff or are so kind to give the searched informations. It's easy to browse the posted threads and due to the search function you can find even informations given in older posts. It's functional and most people are nice around here. Quote: "However, it is common that when someone trolls, there's often someone accusing them of trolling along with the additional comment of "he has nothing in his gallery, he has no free stuff contributions", etc. It gives people the impression that if they have no gallery or free stuff, that they don't contribute in any way, and that's not the case." I saw this he-has-nothing-in-his-galleries-statement only expressed in cases, when it was already more than clear that someone was badgering. And that was deducted from what he had said and/or done, not how many posts he had. "So it was a suggestion to BENEFIT people who do contribute in more than just the common ways, not the other way around." Counting the posts to decide about someone's character is in my opinion no better than counting his images. Someone can be a very communicative person and pile up lots of posts. But this alone don't say that he is more valuable to the community than one who speaks up more seldom.

Personally I'd just like to see a more modern forum software here... full stop.

I'm new to Poser and the forum. I'm hear to learn and maybe one day share my works of art. As a child, I was always taught, "if you ain't got nothing nice to say, don't say anything." So I only limit my remarks in the gallery to the work I can actually say something nice about. I am not a troll. Trolls don't spend the kind of money I have spent with many of the merchants here. I am however a perfectionist. So,it may be a year before I feel good about something enough to post it. In the mean time, I would hate to be labeled a troll, because I don't have anything in my gallery. That would say more about you as a person , than me as an artist

I do like the idea of some sort of "notable posters" FAQ which covers obvious examples such as Geep and Ockham; people who have made major contributions, and know what they're talking about. With their permission -- there are a few people who have 'osity-names they don't use on their own websites. And some people who make good stuff may not want to attract questions, but just announce the latest and basj in the awestruck praise. It might not be all that practical an idea.

Why should this forum look like another forum? What is wrong with variety? It allows everybody to find a comfortable place to hang out. There are forums with lots of text, and forums with lots of bells and whistles. If you want an unmoderated zone, you go find Ironbear in his lair. If you want cutesy avatars taking up more space than comments, you go to DAZ or PP. If you want chronological threads neatly ordered you stay here, if you want only the popular threads, you go someplace where the recent comments jump to the top. If you need a count by someone's name to determine whether they are an active member of the community, then there are sites which divide people into classes by the number of posts they have made... no matter how thoughtful. If you want to know how active a person has been then simply do a search on their name... or lurk for a week or two. Please note that the above statements are my own personal opinion and not part of my persona as a staff member. Carolly

" If you want cutesy avatars taking up more space than comments, you go to DAZ or PP."

True, but I wasn't interested in being "cutesy". I was talking about a possible functionality for a specific addition to the forum, but judging from the responses, I suppose it was a bad idea, and isn't needed or wanted.

But as for "bells and whistles", I don't care about Avatars, I'm talking about stuff that would make the forums more usable and easier to follow. For instance, a quoting feature so we didn't have to manually quote someone when we want to respond directly to them, and not have our response misinterpreted as a general announcement to everyone.

Doing a search... that's an entirely different issue, but along the same lines. I've seen threads before that I later needed to refer to again, and simply couldn't find them in the search I did. The search doesn't seem to be all that successful most of the time. This has been mentioned already.

There's nothing wrong with variety, but what's wrong with additional functionality for the user? I have no desire for avatars or anything cutesy. Message edited on: 08/06/2004 03:15

Y'know.. as much as I like the opportunity to post my avatar on other sites, I( also like this forum for exactely the reasons Carolly mentions: The nice CHRONOLOGICAL threads and the fact that you can alter the font size easily for those with impaired vision (which also means you can make the font SMALLER if that's what you prefer) In other forums they have a counter, and I know the feeling of being "noobish" just because it's a forum I don't participate much in. I think my posts on PP is still below 20... On the other hand I have been top poster on Daz (I'm not anymore, it's been ages since I've been to the Daz forum, simply and solely due to lack of time) Who should decide who are worthy of "honourable mentioning" here? While I basically like the idea, it's hard to do without hurting some of those who are NOT on the list. Sure Geep is a candidate, and Ockham. But how about LesBentley? Nerd? SnowSultan? Ronstuff? Lyrra? Hauksdottir? SAMS3D? Stewer? Ajax? ynsaen? Those names are just randomly taken from some of the people I admire for their knowledge here. That doesn't mean that if you're not mentioned, I am not admiring you, just that my memory when it comes to names is rather poor :o) And that just goes to show how biased such a list would be. If you really want to see if a suspected troll is new to the site or not, you can look in the member list and see when the person joined Rosity. May not be a true picture, but at least if it's someone that joined yesterday and whose sole comment has been a defamatory one, chances are that this person indeed IS a troll.

There is a solution for the text size problem. It makes the DAZ forums a lot more readable for me.

If you have Microsoft Internet Explorer, click on Tools in the top toolbar. On the drop down menu, click Internet Options.

A new window will come up; under the General tab, look at the bottom for a button labeled Accessibility. Click the button.

A menu comes up. Click on "ignore font sizes." If you do that, web pages will display at the size you set in your browser. (Under View -> Text Size.)

Occasionally, you will come across a page that doesn't display correctly with large text. In that case, reduce the text size, using View -> Text Size, until it's readable.

The "Accessibility" menu is also handy if you're trying to read a site that has pink text on psychadelic wallpaper, or some such. You can force pages to display in black and white, by clicking the "ignore colors" option.

If you have been caught by a troll, wait till daylight and he will turn to stone...

If we want to recognize those that have expertise or have made special contributions, there's another way.

We have the AOM designation to recognize artistic merit, why don't we have other awards or designations - voted on by the community - for special forum contributors. Maybe call it them "Gold Members" or "Rendo-Mentors" or something.

I have urged Renderosity for a while to come up with something special to recognize Dr. Geep and Little Dragon for their contributions to the community. Maybe we designate them (and others who go above and beyond the norm in contributing to the forum) "Gold Members" and create a page (or add to the FAQ) with a permanent list of the "Gold Members?" That way they would get the recognition they richly!!!!!!!! deserve and new members would have a way to identify authorities on different subjects.

Whether we call it "Gold Members" or "Rendo-Mentors" or something else, certain people clearly deserve extra recognition. It would be nice to be able to go somewhere and see something like:

*Little Dragon
Awarded Gold Member status August 2004 for serving as a knowledge repository and helping people by providing links to helpful information. He's also known for his Animation and modeling skills.

*Dr. Geep
Awarded Gold Member status August 2004 for contributing over 50 tutorials covering a wide range of Poser-related subjects. These tutorials, as well as his constant involvement in responding to forum posts, have proven invaluable to Renderosity members in their pursuit of personal improvement and knowledge.

*Bobasaur
Awarded Gold Member status August 2004 for occasionally contrubuting abusive puns as he signed up for Dr. Geeps tutorials. Bobasaur was also one of the original 12 Poser Animators.

OK. I was just kidding on the last one - I don't deserve anything, but hopefully you see my point.

Message edited on: 08/06/2004 09:21

Bobasaur, We punsters deserve something... but I don't think it will be gold stars we'll be seeing. Maybe little white ones going in a circle around the lump on our heads! Carolly

Ouch! That's such a punful, I mean painful, thought.

"Bobasaur was also one of the original 12 Poser Animators."< AHH.... but wolf359 is the founder of "the twelve animators" :-) bow before me!! pay homage to me blabbady blah blah etc etc ......(buy my BVH files).

I also appreciate the lack of avatars and emoticons here, it's refreshing. Those "party" threads at DAZ Forums where people load their posts with tons of animated emoticons ... jeez, it's just so juvenile and useless. The bare-bones interface here encourages more substantial discussion. While PoserPros' format does allow for avatars and picto-emoticons, the fact is that there's a LOT of helpful information, lots of altruism to be found at that site, just like here.

While I DO have a life, a posting count would give one the opposite impression. :-) (Note charmingly Neanderthal ASCII smiley...efficient and effective.) I'm not very much against it, but don't happen to see a need, either.

The word "troll" is being used so liberally as to diffuse its original meaning, and the similar meaning that Renderosity seems to "officially" rely on. Originally, to "troll" (verb) meant to post something inflammatory for no better reason that to "stir the pot." Someone who does this habitually is a "troll" (noun.) If I understand correctly, Rosity also uses the term to mean people who regularly post un-helpful negative comments to gallery images. Unfortunately, many now use the term to mean a lot of other things, like "someone I disagree with" or "someone who said that my NVITWAS is underlit." I don't think someone should be labelled a "troll" unless they truly are.

igohigh, your post really cracked me up. That's not the kind of troll we have issues with. The guy under the bridge is a mythological critter. The second this community turns against mythological beasts, it's all over! :-) (Edited for typos. Now there's a great feature!)

Message edited on: 08/06/2004 13:13

Should the post count simply be posts.

How about "word count"? Surely the "number" of of words is important. Surely how much you imput is better then just the number of times you imput.

What about content? Is what you say more important than how many times you imput, or how much you say? Should the content be judged? You could post many times, fill pages with text, and yet the subject/content could be worthless.

How about Freebies? Some freebies are Fantastic, and some are terriable. Should you give the same anti-troll credit to both?

If a person is really, really bad at making gallery pics, should that person be given anti-troll credit because they DO NOT produce gallery pics and clutter up the gallery?

:OP

Message edited on: 08/06/2004 14:18

Just a suggestion but how about the search function. If you do a search of forums by the username don't you get a rough idea of participation.

xoconostle; "The guy under the bridge is a mythological critter" - ?!?!?!

Now I'm Really insulted! Just you wait untill my cusin gets here, you'll be sorry then!!
Better yet I'm telling my big brother, the Ogre, on you Xoconostle!!!

I went Trolling and look what I came home with!:
Catch and Release

Message edited on: 08/06/2004 18:59