To whoever it may concern- I'm fed up with rubbish in the top20 so I intend to leave honest comments.These comments will not contain bad language and are not intended to be hurtful but they will be honest.

Get ready to have your gallery trashed. (I'm not kidding.)

There's been enough feedback in here about the subject. That WILL LIKELY happen. People who need advice most are the least likely to accept it.

I go by the "Thumper's Mom" motto: "If you can't say somethin' nice, don't say nothin' at all." The blurb that says comments should give advice for improvement comes from Rendo, not from the artist. I try to keep that in mind, so I only try to give helpful hints if the artist specifically asks for them. But they usually post wips in here, not the gallery. John

Message edited on: 08/07/2004 13:41

Or you could just buy a bottle of Bad Art B-Gone. :^)

Be mindful of the words you use when you leave your comments. You need to point out whats wrong or your comment will be useless. Example: "This picture is poor" not as useful as "You need to adjust your composition in this picture, there should be a clear focal point".

Hey, Jed, i seen one of your comments, very brave indeed, just curious, did you started getting private messagess like I did when I decided to do the same ??? :)

Yes but I haven't bothered to reply.Surly of me isn't it,such poor manners.Perhaps I should reply to appologise for posting truthful comments.!!!

Dont knock the20, its the funniest thing onRosity.

I agree, but a lot of these pictures have less than ten votes. That's 0.0001% out of a community of over 100000. Everything I've voted for in the past couple of days is in the top 20. With the Exceptions of Spirit World, Top of the World, and Lonliness Reworked they all have less than 10 votes. Hey, If you don't like what's coming out you can go back and vote for Siege again. They do keep track of how many times a picture is voted for. Maybe we can talk the admins into an all-time top 20?

Good for you!!! You should leave honest comments. I, along with many others here are fed up with the rubbish in the h20 too. They should just make the Bryce h20 the Vjerana gallery Part 2. And all her clones that post the same junk that gets in everytime (xina, jocko500, etc).-thats right! I named names!! It is true about the IM's. I posted an honest comment once on a Vj pic and not only did I get an IM from her gripping about it, I got IM's from about 5 others asking me why I left that comment. Then got a bunch of negative comments on my images by them. This is nothing more than strong-arm tatics and bullying people. The only bummer is, leaving honest comments on this junk isn't gonna stop them from getting in the h20. Only people voting honestly will. And that WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Because the majority here like to have the warm fuzzy comments on their own work. Its a tit-for-tat system here. And it sucks!.. but it wont change.

The only way the H20 will change is to not have a H20. The same people will keep voting for the same shit no matter what. Some of the pics I see in there day after day are just awful. (And we know which ones, thank you Striving!)It's not the artist's fault (we all start somewhere), but the idiots voting for their work. But I have a feeling it's the same group of newbie artists voting on each other's pics. As for honest or constructive comments, they just don't exist here anymore. And if you leave one, you are usually slammed. Rude comments shouldn't be tolerated, but what's wrong with an honest and kind critique? Doug

Honest, constructive comments are perfectly fine. Calling someone's picture childish (no matter what word you are using), is not constructive. I would suggest you remove your comments. :o BUT...I understand all your opinions about the Hot 20! There are pictures up there I myself wouldn't have voted for. ;o/ The way to change that is for EVERYONE to go vote for great Bryce pics. We could EASILY have 20-60 Bryce forum regulars voting on pictures right now. (I mean look what we go through to vote in the Challenges) That could make BIG changes... In fact, I'm gonna go voting right now, I myself am a couple days behind that! (so, its as much my fault/resonsibility, maybe more so) AgentSmith

I think you have to remember that some of us are beginners and it takes a lot of courage to post a picture when you see what good work is done here. Constructive criticism is good but destructive criticism is bad. I suppose the only way to make the Hot 20 good is for more people to get out there and vote :)

Ah yes the old adage "if you dont vote,you cant complain" Lets get real folks,this (rosity) isnt a popularity contest right?Its a forum for people to post whatever they consider "art" I myself have given up on the whole hot 20,not that any of my images belong there,but i do think alot of the hot20s arnt so hot and alot of "artists" should be there in the place of them,oh well....what can you do? but vote for the ones you like.

Bea, we were all beginners at one time. I dont have a prob with that. But after 3 years around this site and one other art commune I also see something I do have a prob with. That is these people that are beginners after a year or 2 at using the program. Some continue to turn out the same mediocre 20 minute images one after another. With lighting, materials and over all construction of their images never improving. It's the same recipe with different skies or colors, but it all tastes like headcheese!!!!

I think this can be partly blamed on the artists that continully give RAVE comments on this fluff over and over and NEVER lift a finger to help the person (and I have offered helpful crits in the past, to recieve a few hateful IMs back). If they are gettin into the h20 with every pic they post.. why strive to be better? I think many that believe they are helping by being overly kind, are really only hurting.

As a good friend of mine says.. Love divorced from Truth, is the worst form of Hate....

We're all beginners at one time, yet what happens in the H20 is not from newbies. Will it change?, I doubt it. I'll just keep voting for what I think truly deserves it.

It is pretty hard to hate honesty Jedswindells. 8) I love getting good honest critiques.... that, in my opinion, is what helps me to become better at what I like to do....art. So I hope you all will be honest and critique my images appropriately.... I promise I will not send you negative IMs. 8) I am not a great artist, I must admit it was quite a rush for me to see my pics in the hot 20... just never expected to see my work there. However, as Striving said... the clone art gets old really fast. Also as he stated, "I think many that believe they are helping by being overly kind, are really only hurting." is very true. Yes Bea, constuctive criticism is good.... it is great in fact. The destructive criticism is not helpful in any way; but don't let it stop you. Keep on rendering and learning. You can always ask AS to remove a destructive crit from your gallery image. As for me... I will continue to do like ICM and just keep voting for what I think is really deserving of a vote. Just my $5.00 worth

I'd agree that this is a place to showcase your art (or hobby in my case..it's cheaper than collecting porcelain or SCA armour..;), but I haven't worried about the hot 20 (or H20, which looks suspiciously like the formula for water to my unfocused eyes..;), to date, I think I've gotten one vote on uh..(quick check..good gravy), about 290-odd posted pictures..;)
It's a nice concept (so was the 'forum select gallery' in another site), to show the really good stuff..but it's not something I'd check in defference to all the other pics..;)

My ad parody "Bad Art B-Gone" just entered the Hot20 at #19. I guess if I had put boobies in the thumb it would have went higher, huh Drac? :^D LOL!

Lol, I definetely voted on that one....;oD AS

Yeah. Leave honest comments, but don't take out your anger with your comments in the hot 20, as they didn't do anything wrong, just have a lot of friends who are easily impressed by Bryce. They may even feel guilty about it! Just leave a comment as you would any other picture of that quality. Don't feel you have to "cancel out" the good comments. Or you can if you want. I'm just talkin to hear myself talk. Hey Ian, Hey Ian. What's up? Oh...Nothing. Nothing? Yeah. Sounds totally freaking awesome to me! Actually yes, it is! Allright! YEAH!

I don't know, I feel the good stuff still rises to the top. And even the stuff you don't like, someone has put a lot of effort and thought into. And sometimes, even if the picture itself is unsophisticated, the colours or textures are really well done. I think some pictures get voted for just because they're bold and bright, not tentative, and that appeals to a lot of people. Just checking over the names that striving mentions, and can't find a gallery by xina. But if she's the one I'm thinking of, I hafta admit I thought her work was worth voting for. I know what everyone means about the reaction to leaving comments - I once left a comment on a picture (the guy was selected as one of my 'favourites') the comment wasn't even critical, and I got a furious PM in return, more or less saying that I'd insulted his artistic integrity :o| He came off my 'favourites' list mighty quick after that, and never got another vote from me!!!! Childish of me, but that's the way it goes rotfl

Looks like xina has deleted everything but her membership.

was xina the one who did all those ethereal arrangements of figures, children etc. in a sort of never-never space? I will hold my hand up to voting for her images, even though I don't normally vote for Poser shtuff :o|

Well, I definately feel the need for constructive crits with my stuff. I almost always post a wip here. I don't seem to have an eye for what I would call a pleasing composition. And it would be so nice to get help, because I think that I could learn. I also, put up in the gallery that crits are welcome. I just wish I'd get more. It sucks not knowing what aspect of what I've done is turning off the viewer. Ok, enuff about me. Think I'll go do some voting. And one last thing, I don't like this naming names of hot20 artists. I think thats low and hurtful. One of the main reasons I never advertise my gallery posts here is because I don't want to end up getting sympathy votes, not that I would, but ya know, I want things to be sincere. Just my 2 cents.

Why not change the voting system....? Maybe.....You have to get 100+ Votes to get in?

The trouble is I usually only look at images I think are good, or that are by my favourite artists, although last week I had a voting spree for this very reason of the rubbish in the hot one. I think I've only been in the hot one once and that was when I posted my first nude, I didn't think it was such a great picture, not as good as some other images I've done, but as has been said above, boobies sell. lol 8) Catlin

I have only had 2 images enter the Hot 20, those being "Summer Fields" and "Time to Feed the Cats", both much to my surpirse. I agree the quality of whats going in there is sometimes vexing. Oh well,.......then again, I go to the general Bryce gallery and don't recognize many of the names. I'm just glad there seem to be so many new people using Bryce,........maybe that's what gave DAZ the incentive to buy Bryce. As Martha Stewart says, "It's a good thing". As far as comments,......I once left a comment under a members image that was not particularly offensive, or constructive for that matter,........and I was asked rather brusquely to remove it. I was perplexed at first, then angry,......I removed the comment then IM'ed the member to ask why it bothered him so much. We had an exchange of ideas, and in the end agreed to disagree. In the end he said that indeed maybe he was being to sensitive,........we have since come to respect each others work and (I think)each other as individuals. What's the point,........I don't have the foggiest idea. Hey how about that,.........I managed to use the words "vexed", "brusquely" and "perplexed" in the same post. Thank god for spell checkers.

Xina, revenge is childish. I couldn't say if your images were horrible, or not, because you don't have a gallery here anymore and I have never seen your work. But based off of your reaction, it's easy to determine that you are embarassed over the affair, and this embarassment has driven you to lash out at multiple, non-related parties. This makes me wary of wanting to view your artwork. Is it also based off of unbridled anger? I happen to enjoy anger, but I don't think your brand of anger is my favorite flavor, M'lady. I think that as far as criticism goes... Sharing. The whole affair stinks of Kindegarten sharing issues. If you put your artwork online, then people are going to critique you. You will not hear what you want to hear, period. This is the nature of sharing ideas with other people, at it's core it's about putting your ego aside and allowing others to affect you. I think that if one cannot accept criticism from complete strangers, then you have no business sharing your artwork with complete strangers. "Paired opposites define our longings then our longings imprison us." - The Zensunni Whip

I agree with you xina on the point of folk using the terms "junk or crap". Apart from being of no value as a comment it is very rude and bad mannered. Some folks appear to be a bit childish when they comment in the galleries which in turn can be very hurful to those on the receiving end. Catlin

well, I suppose I have to reply to being called out!

But what can you say to that? Xina, I find it funny that you left this site then rushed back here to comment on someone who critiqued your work.

Thanks for the kind IM btw :-

This is just my opinion (and several others I have communicated with over the last year).

Best of luck to you with all your print sales :-
-B

Xina, No you are wrong, I am 12. So what?

LOL....

I swaw yesterday on someone comments that they work was junk . I saw it and was mad. It was not on my work but someone esles. To me that is just mean spirit. as I read here in the forum all over the place the same people brag on they when and put a bad comment on some one work. It on AgentSmith thead to get the votes out and I was shock that Moderators say nothing and did nothing. I been to all the other forums and nothing like that is say even this type of thead the Moderators would have steped in and stop. They know this will led to a mean spirit. maybe that why all of renderosity say this bryce gallery have a mean spirit for they come here and see things like this going on they go and see a comment saying this is junk. where is the Moderators who will stop this for the other forum do not have this going on. If I wrong tell me. But this leds to a mean spirit and call someone work junk even here in the forum I know the 2d Moderators would have jump in and stop this tread when it was first posted. for they do not wish for mean spirits there

maybe that why people tell you all to bug off. they come here in the forum and see you all talking about people. and see who doing it then you post something on their image then they remember what you say here in the forum or they come here and see you all bragging about it and call names I donot blame the person for going off on you. Your names are with each message you post so they know who you are and they see who you all are putting down that would never happen in any other forum for the Moderators would have stoped it. I like to hear what the Moderators say about this and if this calling people art junk is good or bad comments

plus most poeple here just to have a good time they care less about someone comming and telling them how to do they art then they go and look at that person art and it do nothing for them. It might be great in tech, but the image is not to they likeing. And they see that person it no pro not makeing money on they art. so they tell them to bug off. I know pros here and real teachers I do what they tell me me someone that bat mouth people here in the forum no way I tell them to bug off too.

oh yes I for got who made you all the art experts to who be in the hot 20? what is art. go back to the seven basic things on art. and one is not tech. all the tech. artists thought out history they art do not live on but the out of the box artist lives. why, because they did not care for the tech. artist. the tech artist would put down the out of the box artist. like Dala[ he was a tech artist too but and out of the box artist too] Van Gogh[hope I spell his name right] even the out of the box artist of his day would not look at his art. But today you put a Rembrint and a Van Gogh painting up for sell both will come in about the same amount of money. Rembrint was not like by the tech. artist of his day too[so I read]. So all you tech artist read history and learn your seven basic things that make art. That is one reason my art is like it have spirit and all the art basics. so all you tect artists please red your hostory and please learn for the past teck artist mistakes donot put down any one work and call them names that peason may be a super star one day and your name and images who knows where they be. let say not in the history books

Hmmm...sorry, Jocko. I can't understand anything you wrote.

You can't??? I can. Hmm... yes. Calling stuff "crap" or "junk"...well...it just doesn't work. That is not "contructive criticism" as the words next to the checkbox in the image upload screen says. If you don't want any constructive criticism, don't check the box! Never mind. I'm talking to hear myself talk. again. hehe.

I understood that part of, too, Mr D, but was confused by most of it, like Doug. And I don't know what a "tech" or "teck" or "tect" artist is, but I have a feeling I should feel insulted, LOL. All artists have to go through a "crayon drawing" phase, like when we were children. My parents used to tape my early drawing attempts to the refrigerator to encourage me, I'll bet many of you have this type of memory. The same kind of thing has to happen with the use of a program like Bryce. Luckily for all of you, I went through my elementary phase with Bryce before I was ever online (although I feel I still have a lot to learn). None of that work will ever see the light of day because it was not very good, and that's a good thing. :^) So am I saying that newbies shouldn't post in the galleries? No. But I can tell you that if I were new to Bryce, I would be posting to the beginner gallery and the Forum until such time as I felt ready to post to the main gallery. But all of us have to make that decision on our own, and I do respect that. Some will make that decision too soon, but I respect that as well. It is true that a helpful comment on an image does not contain hurtful language like "this sucks". But it is also true that a helpful comment has to contain a suggestion that something is not quite right about the image, along with a suggestion about what can be changed to make it better. Some will always interpret this as a "bad comment" or "mean-spirited". And that is why I do not comment on the type of image that needs helpful comments. I don't need the aggravation of an overly defensive person who feels I've attacked them personally. So I post praise where I think it is earned, and/or vote for images when I feel the artist has achieved something outstanding. I don't think that it is necessary to disrespect artists by name anywhere for making "bad art". If you look closely at my "Bad Art B-Gone" image, you will see that the bad art example has my name on it, not someone else's. :^) Bad and good art is in the end, like beauty, in the eye of the beholder. Let's just not forget to be kind. John

Sorry to be so long-winded.

@ tjohn; My wife tried to tape some of my early Bryce stuff to the fridge but she didn't use enough duct tape and the damn monitor kept falling off.

Lol @Sackrat. As to having stuff taped to the fridge, when I was about 8 I remember drawing my first comic book, about 4 or 5 pages of comic (took a while). My mum and brother laughed before they got off the first page because the drawing was so bad. Put me off drawing for years :(. Now I just don't care, I listen to useful crit, I like praise/encouragement (hell who doesn't???) and ignore the comments that just say it's cr@p. I would say I am in Jocko's 'Tech' group which I took to mean people who have a technical ability, but lack the art or application. I can spout all sort of theory on the physics of lighting etc, but am cr@p at applying that knowledge to create good art. I'm getting better and the community here has helped me a lot. 'nuff said really

ROTFLMAO@sackrat

Sackrat: Just got home a little while ago and read your post. I'm still laughing. :^)