Well, the advertising images anyway.

The pictures are showing a child's head, proportions and everything, on the body of a very sexual adult. If it were 2D art it could maybe have an element of caricature, and not set off so many alarm bells, but it's D and it had to look real.

It's kawaii-porn.

The GIRL was inspired by the 2D cartoons of Dany. http://www.vocanson.com/tm/A/A5_reportages/2004/creation/goossens/01_goossens.htm (that's not in English, but on the second page is the reference to DANY) Here's information on Dany and his work: http://www.digibulles.com/Dany/ Last time this subject was brought up it turned into a huge flamefest, and I'm not interested in arguing. Some people see it one way, some see it another. I personally think that all "sexy toon girls" look alike, with big, wideset eyes, a small nose, a rosebud mouth, great big boobs, and a little waist. That's what I see when when I look at The GIRL. She reminds me of Jessica Rabbit and Tex Avery's Red Hot, and maybe a bit of Lil' Abner's girlfriend, Daisy Mae... :-) bonni

I don't like girl at all, but imo, this is not a child's face. It's more a BD face (bande dessin, the European equivalent of what you call "comics"). I find girl about as sexy as a Barbie doll. Of which she is, in my opinion, the digital counterpart. I prefer real women to pixels representing something on a screen that represents the female form. Pixels can represent in a digital form erotic fantasies, yes. But sexuality is something else as it implies an interaction between individuals on all levels of being. And a mesh just does not react to anything. ( like the Buggles sang: "she makes love like a metronome...)

I suppose Freud would have a field day analyzing why some people would be fascinated by an image of a 3-yr-old girl's head on a body with exaggerated human female sexual characteristics. He might say that it represents a desire for a sexual being with the innocence, naivete and weakness of a 3-yr-old (a dangerous practice), or he might just say, "sometimes a virtual Barbie doll is just a virtual Barbie doll." But if Goossens used one of Dany's characters as the basis for his model, then we'd have to ask Dany and his fans why they are fascinated by the juxtaposition of two disparate elements in one character.

There are children (much less 3-year-old children) that have the same face as GIRL? Show me! I wanna see!

We did have this conversation before, like elizabyte says. If you as a purchaser feel this is not the right model for you to have, then by all means you should not get it. But this model is something alot of others are happy to get. Some of us feel this work is really exceptional. Let's look at her hands and her feet, they are really made well. Her face is quite precious. Also, there are many dials to use if you feel compelled to adjust her body parts, just like on V3. I think that Kim Goossens model the GIRL is really a very versitle model. I myself think it will be one of my favorites, like the Freak...and Kiki and Koshini. Sharen

I usually do not feed trolls, that's why I won't post any comment to this thread :P.

I think she's adorable...and sexy? Hell yes!! And I'm a happily married female, lol.

"And I'm a happily married female" Me too :D. God, isn't we awfully sick ... LOL

hehehehe. Nah! I just think she's a wonderful creation although I would have opted for thinner arms. But she's so darn cute! I'm working on a render with her right now. I haven't been this excited in months, lol. It's not sick to appreciate art. :)

This person is just out to make trouble. He/she/it has no idea of modern toon style (or the old style for that matter - how about Betty Boop?) I'm most familiar with this European style of cartoon character, it has nothing at all to do with the Japanese anime or manga styles. Belgian, Dutch and French artists have been doing this style for at least 25 years. So if you don't have a clue, Tiger-thingy, I suggest you keep yout uninformed notions to yourself. Otherwise you make a complete fool of yourself and that is no good, is it? :] Fish comics collector (and thanks elizabyte for the link to Dany!)

I have all of Dany's Olivier Rameau books, and the girl on which this mesh is based is certainly not a child but the dreamlover of Olivier. Both live in Dreamland, and "our" world "in which the people are bored" is called "Absurdia". Never ever read a better name for it. Afterwards Dany started a more overly "erotic" (more nudity) series that I liked less because the stories were lousy and cartoon girls always show the weaker side of imagination. Goossens did a good job, yet I find Neftoon gal much more French and thus closer in atmosphere to Dany's work. (Dany is a French artist too). As for Freud: a reductionist, reactionary Viennese bourgeois growing up in one of the more shortsighted restrictive societies of Europe (nearly as bad as some groups nowadays in the States) can never have a real objective view on the vastness of the human psyche. Just look at his twisted view on the myth of Oidipus to see what I mean. He was a joke: nearly a laugh, but really a cry.

The figure is very young looking but so is 'Sarah', maybe its unfair just to single this one out.

The real question is: has daz bastardised the ORIGINAL GIRL into something else and misleadingly called the new figure 'GIRL'. So what DAZ have done is make GIRL 2 and packaged it as the original girl.

Message edited on: 08/07/2004 18:50

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=1878715

As a counter-example, which somehow doesn't trigger the same reaction for me, look at this thread in the forum. One or two of the posters say they'd like to have a more realistic version of the hair they used, and that may be one of the differences. I don't know what scaling or morphs they might have used, and they're also depicting a different era of fashion. And some are an attempt to evoke a particular person. They're all things that shift the end result. As I said, it's the way DAZ present the model in their images that went that little bit too far for me. Perhaps the way these pictures are anchored in a real person, who I can recognise, rather than some comic-book character that I'd never heard of, is the biggest part of the difference. So what context do some of your renders have, and how much of it will a stranger recognise?

To me, she doesn't look too young, but with toony characters it's very hard to guess the age, because generally they have exaggerated eyes and lips and big round heads, which are all characteristics we associate with the young. We had this same discussion when Koshini first came out. Some people saw her as a childlike figure, others saw her as an adult, and dressed her in an adult fashion. This upset those who had thought of her as a child. Perhaps what we need to remember is that we all have a different concept of these models and when someone dresses the GIRL as an adult or in provocative poses, they are responding to their own vision of her - which is not as a child. As a survivor of child abuse, I'm always very alert to these kind of nuances, but for me I see GIRL (and Koshini) as an adult, so it's not a problem. I find it more disturbing to see the PT girl being used in sexual scenarios (implied or overt) - it just presses my buttons. But I have to accept that some people will see PT as just a smaller, more flexible version of an adult model, and use her how they see fit.

I find it more disturbing to see the PT girl being used in sexual scenarios I hear you. A lot of the available clothing also bothers me. How many parents would let their preteen daughter go out of the house with skirts that barely cover their bottoms?

"I find it more disturbing to see the PT girl being used in sexual scenarios (implied or overt) - it just presses my buttons." Karen...I'm with you on that and think it's a very valid point as is the point that most people see the Girl as an adult..as I do. I might still use her for innocent, child-like renders but I still essentially see her as an adult figure.

God... I think people is getting crazy. Or europeans we can see the things without that strange and false POLITICALLY CORRECT STYLE The Girl is cute. Thats all. Sick minds...

Not sure what you mean by "false POLITICALLY CORRECT STYLE" but as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, I do find it disturbing...just my opinion...doesn't make me false or sick.

Or europeans we can see the things without that strange and false POLITICALLY CORRECT STYLE Unfortunately, Poser figures are quite often used for "adult" renders and animations. I highly doubt that child pornography is legal in Europe, so this goes beyond "political correctness." As for the Girl, she appears like an adult to me as well. A cartoon adult.

Many characteristics humans are wired to find attractive are indicators of youth and coincidentally markers for health as well. There are evolutionary advantages to this, and nothing in the recent (in historical terms) societal decision to push the age at which we consider attraction "healthy" upwards towards 21 has changed this.

Large eyes, small nose, slightly larger head, long legs, smooth skin (unblemished and unwrinkled), small waist and so on are all characteristics that are attractive to a large percentage of humans (male and female). If taken to an extreme they tend to appear childlike because they are factors that indicate youth. Finding these things attractive is not an indication of an attraction to children, simply an attraction to the markers of youth and health that for the vast majority of the times humans have been on the planet were a huge evolutionary advantage.

This is, for example, one of the reason Asian women hold such an attraction in the west... they tend to hold more of these markers later in life. For any given age to western eyes they look younger than a western counterpart would. It is no surprise that in comics and anime these characteristics are exaggerated - and it is not a surprise that such exaggerated features are largely considered cute and attractive or erotic. The line / mix between eroticism and innocence is well known.

It may squick some, especially in the current climate of hyper political correctness where more and more often western society, especially in the US, is trying to deny that anyone under 21 might (god forbid) be attractive. But that wont change human nature, and it doesn't indicate illness.

The Girl has the body of an adult - that she has the facial and other markers of youth is not really going to change that - it just makes her more attractive to more humans for reasons that are beyond or below societal and political dictation.