Hello everybody ! I haven't posted anything on this forum for such a long time ... I hope some of you still remember me, hey ! :-) Now that my job on video games is over i'm back to 3D and i'm working on some cartoony, heroic-fantasy image . Here's the head of one of the characters, a dwarf . I've been struggling with the beard in the vertex modeller, trying to give it a cartoony look . It needs some more work but i think i'm on the right track ... Not sure, though : i've seen it too much and don't have a fresh eye anymore :-P So i'm looking for your comments and suggestions for this guy ! Please note that the main part of the helmet is just a temporary spline object and that i'm planning to redo the eyebrows to make them fit with the beard better . litst ----> www.chez.com/litst

Hey my friend!! I'm so happy to see you again in this cool place:-))) Your work is cool as always! I hope to see many more... Ok, let's start with the requested suggestions... The beard and the eyebrows are really cool, only the helmet needs to be improved maybe with little and simply decorations. Have you used shader ops (fake fresnel) for the skin textures? A big hug, your spaghetti-friend from Italy -TOXE

Hi litst, good to see you back! Great character - the beard looks good & I agree with TOXE about the helmet. I don't think he needs much to make him perfect. :-) Regards, Mark

Hi folks, nice to see you too :-D Thanks for the nice comments ! I'm a bit reassured about this beard now :-) As Davide guessed, i used Fake Fresnel here, not only for the skin but for every single shader . It gives some interesting results and can help make the volume stand out . I'm very fond of it, thanks Eric for this simple yet so useful tool ! Actually, i'm looking for a render that looks 3D but also colorful and warm, with a bit of a comics touch . Right now, i'm using various effects : intensive use of fake fresnel, a very bright ambient light (the two get along together well), and also a bit of Toon! outline . And about the helmet, as i said it's temporary, just to give me an idea of the shape . The final helmet will probably be made of wood with metal stuff ... I'll decide when i'll do it ! Your Camembert friend from France ... no cheddar, please ! ;-) litst ----> www.chez.com/litst

Please don't dismiss Cheddar! The genuine stuff is very good (the village is a few miles from me)! ;-)

Ok, for me it's good without cheddar. Let's go with Camembert and Spaghetti! Do you think that is possible to add a good beer? -TOXE

Good to see you back. Your character has a good look to it.

Beer with Camembert and Spaghetti?? Hah, hah, hah, hah, hah....

I've tried to create a cross-nation dish:-P We can change the beer with wine, Camembert with Parmigiano Reggiano and Spaghetti with hamburger. -TOXE

I know, I know! It was a good thought. :-) Perhaps Roast Beef but cooked 'bleu'?

Mhh, it seems very diffucult, maybe i can try with Anything Cooks, don't know, i'll ask Eric. -TOXE

LOL! Great hat TOXE, it suits you! ;-) ... You have to be careful with Anything Cooks; Eric has done his best but you have to watch the darker shaders otherwise Everything Burns. :-)

Eheheh, ok, i will be very careful:-) I have noticed that lately no one can post a message that me and you become crazy:-P It's a fortune that for now i don't have kids, because it would be much difficult to explain why i have a chef hat while i'm working and why a friend in UK understood every little gradient of my madness:-) For now my dog often look at me in a very strange way:-P -TOXE

So one of you wizards want to share a recipe for the fake fresnel function? I've been messing with it for a while but don't know what I'm doing yet. Great dwarf -- I saw the first pic and it looked durn near finished already.

Welcome back, litst. Very nice dwarf, reminiscent of Asterix.

Welcome back litst. What a cool image so far. As far as suggestions you could consider braiding parts of the beard or running a braid of hair from under the helmet for hair. Maybe having a lower lip between the beard and moustache. Maybe all that would overdo the image, sometimes knowing when to stop is more important. Hope to see more updates soon. memaci

welcome back litst,great to see you back here at renderosity and posting more of your great work.:)

the dwarf looks really cool!!!

Message edited on: 08/12/2004 15:08

Thanks for the comments guys :-) I'm in for the international dish ! I'd add an asian touch if you will . What about fried chicken legs, fish eyes, alive shrimps or cock crests ? Yum-yum, ain't it ! Nothing like the Shanghai food, believe me i've eaten that for months ... well, except maybe the TsingTao beer ! :-P Memaci, i've thought about adding braids, but i prefered to focus on a simple, raw, ruffled beard . This tough guy isn't a sissy that bairds his beard ;-) ! When it comes to hair, i still don't know if i should add some or make him bold . I'll make some tries . Nomuse, here's an image that shows the basic way i'm using Fake Fresnel . It's not meant to be used that way, but instead on transparency, reflections or highlights . But here for this cartoony render i use it on color to give more volume to the models . Hey, i'm looking for feedback on this other head too ! It's finished i guess, but i may work more on the horns shaders and add horns bases on the skull . And also, i'll have to add an expression on his face . Any suggestions ? It's for a still scene, so no need to animate it . Should i go for tweaking the mesh or try to add face bones ??? litst ----> www.chez.com/litst

By the way, do you like the earings on the dwarf ? I think i should remove them ...

the head looks cool too,i would tweak the mesh and dont use bones,just my 2 cents.btw,thats a great cartoon style.

earings and dwarfs = perfect.

You are back with a cool style, my favorite setting is the one with 50% toon. About earings, let them as they are;-) About international dish, have you eat also bread with locusts? Tsing-Tao beer it's not the best, but maybe is the best with rooster crests, don't know... In any case, no Camembert, no party. -TOXE

"Rooster", i should have said "rooster" ... ;-) Please, don't get me on the bread, even here in France i rarely eat bread because it is so hard to find some good one . My favourite baker is on vacation for more than two weeks so i'm living a nightmare ! One more week to go and he'll be back ... He's italian, by the way : the Constantini bakery in Machecoul-en-Retz . Great place, great bread ! Italian people know what's good, right ? Not like those cheddar-eaters ... ;-) litst

Nice to see you again litst. Its been awhile. I like the earrings, keep them. Great work! Brian

Oh, my friend i'm really sorry to hear your pain avec le pain;-) Say hi to the guy for me:-) Vive la boulangerie Constantini! -TOXE

Litst... can you show the shader you use? I'm still trying to figure out the fake fresnel myself. And/or the lighting setup since I'm sure it affects the outcome. Thanx! I like the dwarf like he is for the most part, but I do agree about adding a lower lip... gives a great spot for adding emotion to him.

It seems to be a mixer operator with 2 colors and a fake fresnel effect for blending. Emh, litst, i have won something?:-P -TOXE

If you're going to give that dwarf some lip, do it before he's got his axe!

And the winner is ... TOXE !!! Congratulations TOXE, you've won a magnicifent piece of bread, thanks to our sponsor the boulangerie Constantini in Machecoul-en-Retz in France ! ;-) You're right, the basic technique for the fake fresnel is to mix two colors with it . Here's the shader tree for the simplier shader : the teeth . But sometimes it can get much more complex, this is the case for the skin for example . I won't show it to you since it would be three screens high ;-) Concerning lighting, the only rule for me is : an very strong ambient light with the brightness at least at 50 percent . It can be very saturated or not . Then you can add regular lights with soft shadows, which can be colored or not, no rules here . Playing with the lights and the colors, you can achieve lots of atmospheres very easily . Just keep the ambient high since that's the one - in conjunction to the Fake Fresnels - that gives volume . Before Eric made the Fake Fresnel, i thought that ambient was completely useless to make good renders ;-) . I hope this helps make things clearer ! I've made some tries to add a lower lip, i really don't have the room for it ... It just doesn't show in the beard and i don't want to change to overall shape of the beard . Anyway, thanks for the idea ! litst

This is a really cartoony style, I love it! I wish I could play around with these models, I'd love to animate them!

Cool, i'll wait for my prize:-) -TOXE

It will be sent to you by slow mail . Should take two weeks to arrive . ;-)

Thanx litst! It's great to have you back! I've learned more from lurking over your posts then through any readings of the manual. :D

Any chance of a look at your toon settings? I've been trying to duplicate your look, and I haven't had much success. Great tips with fake fresnel, I never realize how linked it was too ambient light! Brian

Hi Litst, It's nice to see that you're back. I too am interested in your Toon settings. I really like the way the skull turned out. Keith

OOH! My turn to guess! Set the toon effect slider to zero, and set the line effect to 50%. Set both the line widths to 1. Do I win the Constantini Bread?

And another bread goes to brainmuffin ! :-) Yes, this is the actual technique, i just use Toon! for the outline, not the toon effect itself . Concerning line widths, it may be larger than 1 if you render for hi-resolution . Nicholas86, the ambient light often gives very bad results in usual renders because its light is uniform and thus doesn't emphasize the volume of objects . And we make 3D, so we DO want to see the volume ;-) ! But by using Fake Fresnel to make the edges of objects darker than the rest, it gives a very special look than can fit well in a cartoon setting . See the pic ! Once again, thanks for the comments, guys, they cheer me up :-) litst

Hi, LITST. Great tip, thx a lot, your dwarf really looks awesome ! Gonna buy shader ops soon. Ficitation pour tes autres rendus !