Hey, after seeing the latest thread that deals with comments and ratings on pics here being BS. I was wondering if there was a way R could just add another radio button on the submit screen that lets the viewer know this person will accept honest Crits? This way, the hacks that just want to continue to regurgitate the same fluff over and over and only get "Great Work!" comments can get that. And those that want to improve and want suggestions/crits can get them. How hard could it be to add that into the code? Or, if that isn't possible, how about those of us that do want the crits can come up with a simple letter, like "C" we put in the title of the image so it is seen in the thumb? Marking us as those that will enjoy suggestions on the work. Just a thought. It would be nice to know who around here want to grow and are looking to improve. Lord knows I could use it! LOL.. -B

Hey I like that idea, the one about the button. I already disable the vote button on my gallery posts. Someday I hope to create something I think might be worthy of votes but until then I like to just get the comments and crits to help improve what I've done. good idea!

Something along those lines sounds good. Other sites have their "Critique Forums". You post your work with the intentions of other artists leaving you constructive crits. In 3+ years I've learned alot from people here, some from reading the forum and part from C&C. ICM

Yeah ICM, I hear ya. I really want something that keeps the work with the general public. But just lets others know "You can help me here and I wont cry" ..lol.

(joking)Screw all this growth "stuff",I am so going to post the awesomest pic,NOTHING BUT PRESETS!,then to clinch a hot20 spot, a poem(which has nothing to do with the image) as my comments.I'll be the next Elite clique ruler I say. ps,all sarcasm

Just say that on your image caption. Post something like "No fluff comments please. Honest comments and opinions wanted. If you think it's crap, feel free to say so. Ditto if you think it's great." Not hard really. ;) Either that or try posting over at that CG place. (But then you'd have be on the edge of Rochr or Hobbit quality, and try not to mention the B-word.)

Paul, but that wont last.. I want something quick like a radio button or a simple "C" in the title of the pic. Not having to write this stuff out everytime. I was kind of hoping to get a group of us to do this.. I dont want to go to CG, thats why I am posting this here.. LOL

On the contrary I am going to have to disagree on this one. I think that on paper it looks very good, much like socialism. However, once put into effect it will divide the artists even further. People who don't have the option enabled will be looked down upon, and will therefore enable it, even if they don't want bad comments. As this is the personality that would have it disabled anyway... that of one who is not inclined to have theirselves or their art scrutinized. I believe a better option would be to have a screen display when enabling voting or comments, "By enabling this option I (artist name) certify that I agree to accept - with an open mind - comments that may be of an honest and critical nature." And have them submit their password... Why do I believe that this is a better way to go? Because it keeps the artistic community unified, and may make people think twice about submitting work that they don't really want feedback on. It will also make people feel more open about giving constructive criticism where it is due, because we will all know that they have agreed to accept it. This is in no way an offense to striving's idea. However, I think that if they don't want feedback they could use Photobucket.com and save renderosity the bandwidth.

Your opinion Ornlu.. but I do disagree with you.LOL. I dont look down on people who dont enable ratings and I dont think this would make a big diff on relations here.

Infact, I think it is unfair to those that want crits not be able to get them because we are all so freaked out over getting slammed if we give em. And just writing "I want crits" in your description doesn't seem to have a uniform feel to it. And pretty much goes unnoticed. I want something that is a staple here that when you see a pic's thumb, you know officially they accept crits.

This is something to try to get a glimmer of respectable honesty back to R for those that want it.

Why is honesty so despised anymore??????
We will agree to disagree.
-B

Message edited on: 08/21/2004 15:48

Message edited on: 08/21/2004 15:48

I for one have learned more then conceivable from C&C, as well as this forum. The day I stop getting honest opinions and comments is the day I stop progressing. Such is the case of so many here that have reached their peak and stopped progressing, unfortunately most are somewhere between SHINY SPHERES OVER WATER and NOTHING BUT PRESETS. I was guilty in the beginning... and am still not much further along then that, but thanks to the honest feedback of others, countless hours spent in the forums, and messing around with tutorials, I think I am getting a bit better. I think the solution to the problem is: if someone can't handle honest feedback on their artwork, then they need not allow comments at all. This is really their problem and the rest of us shouldnt have to come up with a way to work around it. Thats just what I think.

I'm glad Bruce has brought up this discussion. I must admit the current commenting system is not working to the benifit of many. I think the "allow comment" box has always been meant for honest input within the limits of the TOS. The problem is that it is being misused or abused by so many people for their childish games. Because of this when we post a critique to some of these folks, it is often perceived as a hostile attack rather than a friendly suggestion. If we add another box to check, it will just add another new thing to abuse then we'll be back to square one. In every system there are always loopholes and people who can't wait to exploit them. IMHO I like Ornlu's suggestion above. But I would really hate to have to resubmit my password everytime I upload, Maybe an "I agree" button would be OK :-) Ultimately I think the best solution is individual responsibility for our comments, and for checking that "allow comments" box; You may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one.

there's a voting button? how do you tell?..;)
I just comment on stuff I like..if I have a suggestion, I usually end with encouragement or a request for more pics (I'm probably known as 'pakled the great' behind me back, since I overuse the word so much..;) but then, I only comment on stuff I like..;)

I would like the "C" Please...In order to get Better YOU need to be able to learn and Grow...Or we will STAGNATE...Help me Will YA...?

Striving, I don't think you understand. Not enabling ranking is a COMPLETELY different thing than what you suggested. People who don't enable voting usually are very sure of their work and are highly regarded. An enabled ranking usually results in nothing less than 'nice' anyway and has nothing to do with constructive feedback. I understand what you said, but at the same time I'm not so sure that you read my entire post. A 'waiver' basically, would make people feel more at ease about giving criticism, as they are aware that the artist has accepted to recieve it. I still think that your idea would create a divided gallery, and that's not what we want. Allready there's the class that doesn't even need the 'ranking' to get 50+ comments, and the group that does, to squeeze out 10. Although this has nothing to do with constructive feedback. I'm willing to bet that the people who get 50+ comments can't take it. As I recently constructively criticized an image which had 30 comments and recieved a not so friendly private message from the artist.. We do need constructive commenting, and that is what I do when I visit the gallery. However, not everyone does, and this is the problem. When people see so many "excellents" they forget that they have the ability to go against the flow.

Ok...where is this "enable voting" button people keep mentioning? LOL...is this a new thing? I do more 2D art than 3D, but this issue is universal. I'll tell you what I did that you all might want to try. A while back I went to the 2D forum and posted the question, "Who would like to receive constructive critiques from me in the event I comment on your work in the galleries?" About a half dozen people chimed in with a "me!" (one or two hinted they'd rather I didn't)...I wrote their names down in notepad and have access to it at any time I'm wandering through the galleries. If their name is on my critique list, it's safe to give one. And if they say otherwise...just refer them to the forum archives :D Anyway, since RR won't offer a compromise on this endless debate (I guarantee you that), I just thought maybe what I did might be worth a try for some others here.

I've found that giving a constructive critique is an artform in itself. If I like something about an image, I always try to go beyond the "nice pic" or "excellent work" comment and give a specific reason that I like that particular image. For instance, if its the composition, relate what it is about the composition that is attractive, or, if it's the color or lighting, give a reason that these elements are pleasing. If there is something that troubles you about an image, don't immediately go on the attack. First, try to comment on something that is working well in the image. And with most any image, there is bound to be something that is working well. After first pointing out what you like about the work, only then "suggest" they might want to try this or that, whichever will improve the image in your opinion. Telling someone blunt out "Hey, you "dropped the ball" on this one" will only get you a blunt reply and a angry one at that. But saying "Hey, did you MEAN to "drop the ball" in that way" gives the person a dignified way to respond to your critique. they won't feel so much like they totally screwed up. It's more likely that you won't be putting them in a defensive mode.

"I already disable the vote button on my gallery posts" ----------------------------------------- Ang, how are you able to do that? I thought it's a mandatory thing. The only ones I can disable are Comments and Ratings. Give girl! :)

I never allow rankings on my images, but I didn't know you could keep one of your images from being vote-able? Sometimes I get 30 comments on my stuff, much of it is praise I'll admit, but every once in a while some schmoe will slander me and my imagery. Way I see it, it's just text anyway, and means only what I want it to mean. Honestly, I wish more people would dissect my images. I've been stagnant for months, but then again I've been away, and taking lots of photos, and just enjoying the world instead of trying to re-create it. Playing god is still fun for me, but since we all have God-playing-programs (Bryce, namely!), sometimes gods don't get along! I only disagree with you two (ornlu, striving), because I really don't care if someone slanders me. Look at my stupid screen name! Nobody can insult me more than I insult myself, every time I log in!

I think they just meant ranking, you can't enable voting as far as I know.

Striving, if you want honest, open and constuctive criticism, post your WIP's here in the forum. (Work In Progress) And in case anyone is about to chime in with "imagine if everyone posted their wips here...", everyone won't. This forum only gets a few new threads a day anyway. I'll give us something to do that advances out collective ability instead of busting on pumeco or CG or someones comments on a picture. Not aiming at anyone here, just had that quote turn up under a post I made in the poser forum Announcing the arrival of my last image. It kinda irked me, the few days before I posted, there were bout a dozen threads about The Girl's breast poking thru her clothes.

Well, it was nice to read some other point of views. Some are off on a whole other topic..lol. Anyway, I still stand behind my idea. But I know it wont happen.. Seems not enough here really care about getting honest comments and want to continue to have the kind "Great Work" stuff 20 times every image. Not knocking you either.. just stating my take on it. Thanks for those of you that took the time to reply to my lame attemt to redirect this ship that has gone astray imo. Bruce

Yeah, I always disable voting and ranking. The ranking is meaningless, I feel, since people either ignore or put 'excellent'. The 'vote' button I disable 'cos I never do anything worth voting for lol. I like C&C, and sometimes ask for specific advice in the blurb attached to the image.

Pog, how do you disable vote? You people are all on crack, or I am blind...lol

You will never see a vote option on your own images (hell, with that clone accounts wouldn't even be needed!). BTW it is there on your latest when i go in and look.

Is it on the older one?

LOL, that's hella funny. I see a vote button on yours Pogmahone. For a moment there I thought I was missing something. It would be a great feature though, for people who don't want to play the Hot20 game.

Duh! I was SURE that I'd ticked a 'no voting' button at some stage. I thought that's why no vote button visible on my images rotfl...... I agree that turning it off is an option that should be available. I've no interest in the Hot 20, and I'm sure lots of other people ditto.

ok, now how would you tell that anyone had voted at all, unless you were in the hot 20?..;)

My 2 cents worth: Critiques should be WIP postings here in the forum where one can get help. Replies to critique requests should be positive and informative, never an attack on that person or their ability (or lack of ability). I have benefitted from the comments of my fellow brycers; Like I did not know about setting up a third terrain as a sea foam material for those island shores. And I found out about the excellent modelling program, "Wings 3D". And the HDRI experiments which promise to make certain class of renderings superb. etc. etc.

Quote: Infact, I think it is unfair to those that want crits not be able to get them because we are all so freaked out over getting slammed if we give em. And just writing "I want crits" in your description doesn't seem to have a uniform feel to it. I totally agree with this, in fact why wouldn't we be honest. The text above the comment box says: Your helpful comments for improving this image, so if there are people who cannot take it why should we have to change anything for them by adding a crit-button. I say it's their problem and i keep on giving constructive crits. (sorry for any faults, my english is not perfect)

No, you can't disable members being able to vote on your picture. Yes, we have already had that as a request, to be able to not allow voting on your picture. It is harder than you would think with the code that is in place, BUT the request IS on our list. So, is the request to have a "honest critique" flag up on your pictures. To be honest, I don't think this will ever happen, because it would be a go-ahead flag for people to flame one another, with "permission". (It would be a very hard thing to moderate over) BUT, the idea isn't completely dismissed amongst the staff, so who knows? AgentSmith