I am relatively new, only been here a year or two, so I missed the release of Victoria and Judy, but I was under the impression that these were both new characters built from scratch to replace Posette. Am I correct in saying: Posette was made by Zygote. Zygote became DAZ (sort of) and made Victoria from scratch from digital scans of a real human. Judy was made from scratch by Runtime DNA members. Was Stephanie made from scratch or based on an existing mesh? Mayadoll, The Girl, etc, are all obviously built from scratch and not based on existing meshes.

Judy is a majorly reworked, higher-resolution Posette body with a morphed Dork head, mapped to take V1/2 textures. Don is the same except based obviously 100% on Dork. Stephanie (1) is based on Michael(1/2)'s mesh (they take the same textures). Ockham is Albert Einstein's head on a reworked, lower-resolution version of Winston Churchill's body(!!!). Ok, maybe I made that last one up ;p

Posette was made by Zygote.

Yes

Zygote became DAZ (sort of) and made Victoria from scratch from digital scans of a real human.

Yes

Judy was made from scratch by Runtime DNA members.

Not quite. Judy is a rebuilt, upgraded Posette mesh reworked by RDNA and included with Poser 5.

Was Stephanie made from scratch or based on an existing mesh?

Stephanie is based on the Michael 2 mesh. Stephanie Petite (and Victoria 3, Michael 3, David) is based on the Daz Unimesh.

Mayadoll, The Girl, etc, are all obviously built from scratch and not based on existing meshes.

Mayadoll and the Girl are indeed new meshes.

And don't put Posette away too quickly :). She may be technologically outdated, but she's definately cute and has tons of free content.

LLLLLLLhiannan :D X-Posted with R_Hatch! Message edited on: 09/15/2004 01:29

Posette was made by Zygote

Yes

Zygote became DAZ (sort of) and made Victoria from scratch from digital scans of a real human.

DAZ was a spin-off of Zygote ... the branch that focused on Poser products broke off and became DAZ. Zygote still makes high-end (and very expensive!) models. As for Victoria being built from digital scans of a real woman, I believe Victoria 3 was (as she was made from the Unimesh), but I'm not sure if Victoria 1 and 2 were made from "real" human data. Anyone?

Judy was made from scratch by Runtime DNA members.

Nope ... this is partly true. The textures and morphs were made by Runtime DNA members, but the meshes were made by Cubed (see http://www.cubed.ie/services/serv_content.htm where it says "Our artists created all of the 3D models, poses, and animation for the award-winning Poser 5 software and Avatar Lab from Curious Labs."

Was Stephanie made from scratch or based on an existing mesh?

Depends which Steph you're talking about. Stephanie (#1) was based on the Michael 1 and 2 mesh, but morphed to make a female. Stephanie Petite is based on the DAZ Unimesh, same as Victoria 3, Michael 3, and David.

Mayadoll, The Girl, etc, are all obviously built from scratch and not based on existing meshes.

Correct.

Message edited on: 09/15/2004 02:29

Actually, Victoria 3 (and therefore all the other Unimesh models) was derived from the Victoria 1 mesh. They may have used scans of a human body at some point along the line, but V3 was definitely not built from scratch.

Vicki 3 was based on swimsuit model Natalie Abramov. I'll check on Vicki 1 when I call DAZ tomorrow.

Furrette 2 is 99.9% built from scratch. She has perhaps 10-12 polys left over from the original Furrette, and she isn't saying where.

As noted in 5 above, Judy is not a re-worked Posette. She is an entirely new mesh modeled initially to specifications provided to cubed. The only lineage she has to Posette is that she's included in the Poser package. This mesh was then outsourced to a third company (not RDNA)for additional work, and was changed from what cubed created in some areas. (fact) Can't speak to the origin of Vicki other than V3 -- which was answered in 7 above. The Unimesh is a generic figure that is, from what I've managed to gather, from scratch and is adaptable to various scan data. (fact with supposition) Daz3D was formed when members of the Zygote Poser division bought themselves out of Zygote. (unchecked fact) Stephanie 1 was formed from Michael 1. Stephanie 3 came from the Unimesh. (fact) Checked facts against the indivduals mentioned.

This is all fascinating, but I'd appreciate more info on the compatibilities. Common textures, common morph usage, conforming clothing, and so on. Just to add one potentially useful detail. Posette and the P3 female use the same head mesh, which means that Posette face/head morphs can work with some P3-derived figures.

V1, V2, and Judy can all use the same textures; although Judy was mapped to come close, she's not exact. Steph 1 can use the same textures as Mike 1, 2 v3, S3, and she freak can use the same textures -- haven't checked david. M3 & Freak use the same textures. Posette uses her own textures. In fact, excepting the newest figures, all of the poser folks use different textures. Posette still has more textures available for her for free than any other figure -- and some of them are better than many of the expensive ones available for v3. There's not much morph sharing outside of the gen 3 mil figures - and those are not stable, producing different results. There are hybrids out there, but they are intermediate use type stuff. Conforming clothing is always figure specific, as it is dependent on the boning system for function. However, any figures which share the same boning system can share the same clothes, assuming alterations for body shape. V1/2 ad M1/2 can share clothing like that. That's about the only one for certain. Furrette can wear Posette clothing though :)

EDIT ... Ooops, duplicate post! (waves at ynsaen) Common textures: Victoria 1 and 2, the Millenium Kids, the Millenium Baby and (for the most part) Poser 5's Judy and Penny can all share the same textures with very minor differences - most notably the eyes are separate in the P5 figures, but other minor seam differences here and there.

Same for Michael 1, Michael 2, and Poser 5's Don and Will.

Victoria 3, Stephanie Petite, Michael 3, and David are all based on the DAZ Unimesh ... I guess you could say their textures are all relatively interchangeable to some degree ... so if you want to give V3 a hairy chest, or M3 shaved legs, you can. ;-)

The Poser 4 characters (affectionately known as Posette and The Dork) take different textures from all of the above "right out of the box." However, way back when, someone in the community remapped Posette to take Victoria 1 and 2 textures, by transferring the UV maps with UV Mapper.

And, with the utility called "Universal Texture Converter", available from DAZ, you can convert Millenium 3 textures to Millenium 1 and 2 textures, thereby making everything compatible with everything! LOL

Message edited on: 09/15/2004 07:33

Actually, one more thing ... all of the Poser 5 figures (that is, Don, Judy, Penny, and Will) share the same head geometry, so their head morphs should be compatible with one another. The bodies are a different story, though.

Message edited on: 09/15/2004 07:36

oh, oh!! (Hiya, Deecey!!! :)) That's true! lol -- As I found out when I didn't pay too much attention to what files I was accessing on the content cd and ended up applying Judy's extra morphs to DOn...

its is possible for the sufficiently persistant waves to convert clothing from one similarly grouped figure to another. Say ... V1 to MD to PT to Judy

Converting clothing is half easy, and half bloody difficult. A simple exercise: start with Judy's combat trousers. Import the .obj file, and use the Grouping Tool to share the two buttock groups between thigh and hip. [Best to enlarge the hip first. Then, each side in turn, switch to the thigh group, add that side's buttock group, and then remove the hip group.] Export the .obj under a new name. Take a Posette set of pants. Edit the CR2 to change the file it points to. Save under new name. You now have a new item of clothing. Pass it through the setup room, this seemed to cure a couple of oddities. Now the not-easy part: fine-tuning in the Set-Up Room to get good posing without excessive poke-through. For Judy to Posette, it seems that Judy's back and belly are differently aligned. Without adjustment, the back of Posette's legs poke through. But getting something that will work for a character standing around, that's not terribly hard if you want loose clothing. Those combat pants don't cope will with extreme action poses. So far, I'm inclined to think that different grouping is one of the smaller problems. Somebody must have described it better, somewhere...

where meshes come from Well, when a mommy-mesh loves a daddy-mesh... :) sorry, couldn't resist that one!

If this is all true, then whose feet would you guess these to be. Seeing as one of these was apparently built from scratch from digital scans of a real human. Pardon me saying so, but those feet all look like they were based on the same mesh. If they weren't then someone went through a lot of trouble to make it look like they are. There are three giveaway markers from what I can see... The split along the top of the foot that works into the subdivide close to the toes. The middle foot looks like it was subdivided once, while the third foot looks like someone took great pains to add extra surfaces... But the edges and vertex angles still line up too well. Next, the "pad" on the foot is identical on all three. Basically, it's a part of the model you're unlikely to look at, so it appears they just kept it the same and scaled a bit from foot to foot. Lastly, the triangle in the middle of the foot just before the arch is an identifier. There's no reason to put a triangle in that exact spot on a model of a foot, and if the three feet were each modeled individually, the ods that they would share that specific polygon arrangment are pretty darned slim... So, I'd think that we were looking at Vicky3/Michael3/Stephanie Petite3/whatever, or maybe even Posette/Judy/??? , but the way you asked your question makes me wonder whose feet those are.

Ok... got it. I don't think you're asking about the models so much as the "timeline" on which the models happened. The only thing I can figure is that one of those feet is either Posette or Judy, and another is Victoria. This causes a problem, because Posette's feet came first, meaning that she and Judy will share their mesh. But Victoria was supposed to be built from scratch, wasn't she? There is no way, that if one of those feet is Posette or Judy, that Vicky's foot is based on a 3d-Scan. Just as a guess, the odds that any of those feet at all is based on a 3d scan are slim. So, are you implying that Vicky has Posette's feet?

In order, the meshes appear to be Posette (made first by Zygote - later to become DAZ 3D - and licensed for Poser by Metacreations, later to become Curious Labs) Next is the Victoria 1 or 2 mesh (both are the same, the difference is in the morphs). This was also created by Zygote/DAZ 3D. I don't recall them saying that it was based on "digitized human data" during the publicity, though ... that came during the Victoria 3 publicity and the "unimesh controversy." The last mesh is Judy's foot. It does appear that the foot was based on the Posette mesh originally created by Zygote/DAZ ... however, this may not mean that the entire mesh was. Interesting. 8-)

I don't recall them saying that it was based on "digitized human data" during the publicity, though ... that came during the Victoria 3 publicity and the "unimesh controversy." What's the unimesh controversy?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1413515

Victoria 3 was the first figure that was based on the DAZ Unimesh. The second figure to come out of the Unimesh was Michael 3 ... and when it was released there was a big uproar about him being "based on Victoria 3" rather than based on the Unimesh. While some raved about Mike 3's gentler features, others were calling him a girlie man left and right. 8-)

I believe the most memorable phrase that came out of the controversy was "hairy man boobs." ROFL

Message edited on: 09/15/2004 16:57

I think that cubed kinds fudged the facts a bit. As they didn't 'create' the mesh they just reworked it for poser 5.

Nope, cubed didn't re-work it according to cubed and CL -- it's a scratch mesh. The feet images are Posette and Victoria. Seems reasonable, since both came from the same place.

Giving CL and Cubed the benefit of the doubt, we might want to consider that perhaps one of the reasons for the similarities in shape between Dork and Don was to make the Poser 5 figures compatible with the vast amount of clothing that was already available for Poser 4.

but the clothing from 4 doesn't work with poser 5 people :) It is not just the shape the I am looking at in the images but rather the placement of the lines. Identical save the extra cuts to beef up the poser 5 mesh

but the clothing from 4 doesn't work with poser 5 people :) Point taken. 8-) But perhaps initially that was the intent, and then they regrouped the model to improve the joints and posing? This is all speculation anyway -- I guess I'd better get some popcorn. LOL

Deecey was correct, Judy, Victoria RR and Posette. All the same mesh as far as I am concerned.

I can't remember who posted it but some time ago there was a post which compared the meshes of V1/2 and V3. From what I can remember, V3 (it was said at the time) is not a completely new mesh but a reworked V1 mesh, subdivided, rerigged and remapped. At least, the evidence seemed pretty convincing to me at the time, hence my post above.

For those of you keeping score: Vicki 1/2 based on a data scan composite of 3 people Vicki 3 (see above) Michael 1/2 based on a data scan composite of 2 people, one of whom is Dan Farr Stephanie 1 & 3 are based (very closely from what I was told) on on a single real person. Her identity, however, is a secret :-)

Just a point of perspective from an intermediate-level modeler ... From a technical standpoint, there would be many disadvantages of creating a Poser model directly from human scan data. First of all, the mesh would need a considerable amount of cleaning up, as the human data would not create a very clean mesh. Secondly, symmetry would be off, as the human body is not perfectly symmetrical. So you would have a problem with creating morphs that would move both sides of the face the same; I would suspect that it might also create problems with grouping and symmetrical posing as well, but I'm not sure. So, I would suspect that when DAZ used human scans for their models, there was a considerable amount of cleanup, rework, or (yes) even reforming a hand-built mesh around the scan data. I don't see the similarities in the meshes as a bad thing ... it's the results that you get with them that count.