I am angry. Yes very angry and upset. My girlfriend Valea is a merchant here at Renderosity and as all know it is sometimes a very hard work to create textures for Poser.She has done some very wonderful things for it and then a friend of mine tells me,that one of her chaacters could be find at Edonkey. Thats unfair.She sat at the computer for many days to create the product and then one stupid person has nothing better in his mind as to put her product in the web.Why?Thats scrupelous and i hope this damned person burns in hell for this criminal act. Sorry if i may sound harsh but i am so angry.

Message edited on: 10/02/2004 08:51

You have good reason to be. This happens all too often and is heartbreaking for the owner/creator from little fry like me to the big software companies. It should be stamped out!!!

My girlfriend was shocked.So much work and then this.What a bad world if someone cannot spend 9$ for a texture.:-(

Arvanor, that's one of the reasons people here are so anti-piracy. Many of us are merchants; quite a few of us make our living making and selling Poser content. I hope your gf gets the item pulled and the persons responsible dropped in a huge vat of boiling shit.

Gosh Paul, that sounds like a pretty harsh penalty ... Then again, .... maybe not ................ considering. ;=]

"Gosh Paul, that sounds like a pretty harsh penalty ... Then again, .... maybe not ................ considering. ;=]" Hehe. Mr Tolerant, ain't I?

Um, 'scuze me Mr. Tolerant ...

Actually, I take exception to the "huge vat" part ...

I think it should be a very small vat that is just big enough for the ... CENSORED ... of the offending party.

My sympathies to Valea, and I hope edonkey is forced to pull the item ASAP. It's times like these when I hope the few people here who wrongly complain about "copyright police" will realize there's a very good reason why we have to be very vigilant about actual and potential violations.

heartbreaking for the owner/creator from little fry like me to the big software companies. As well as musicians, actors, and movie-makers.

I complained about copyright police before but this is different. When I complained someone was saying that a film company wouldnt like some film thing being copied as a 3d object but most film companies dont seem to bother (apart from disney and a few others). This situation is more theft and I don`t condone it in any way.

Yeah, but musicians, actors and movie-makers have to worry about illegal downloads and copies of CDs and movies. In my mind that's the same type of theft.

That is what I meant, I was complaining about a different aspect of copyright before when someone copies a character or object from a film but only in the form of a 3d object. That to me is not so bad but theft of a film or cd etc is a bad thing. I hope I explained it clearer this time.

So what can be done about this? What are the various policies of these peer2peer systems for pulling stuff or any measures for complaining?

most of them will ignore you. it usually takes lawyers to make stuff like that happen. reference the case of napster. the thing with most file share programs is that there isn't one, physical server that the files reside on, but instead, a copy of the file resides on every computer that has downloaded the file, and can be accessed by any other computer that does a search through the file systems of every other computer that is currently running the file share software. So, you don't have the option of going to a server and having that file removed from that server, and suddenly no one else can access it. Instead it would have to be removed from every computer that is connected through the software. Now, the programmers of the file share software can put blocks on certain file names, or file types, so that whenever the software does a search, any files of that name or type won't show up. but in a lot of cases a file is renamed various different names, so for that method to be really effective, they'd have to block all the various names that the file COULD be named, which is virtually impossible to do. At least as far as I understand. Ligitimate file sharing programs require a membership fee, and have a much more limited selection of files and file types. The member fees go toward paying royalties to the artists/musicians, etc. (or at least they're suppose to). But they also have a bit different setup, where the users connect to a database or server to receive the files.

There's only one trick I know of that might work. But it's very dirty, and I don't recommend it. Join that P2P network, and share a bogus file with the same filename and size as your texture. Hopefully the bogus file will end up on more machines than the real file. Nothing illegal or dirty with this trick. But I've also heard of files on P2P networks that had deliberately been infected with a virus by the original merchant, putting the infected file on a high speed connection. Very effective, but also dirty, and maybe illegal. KaZaa has been put out of action, at least for zip files and executables, by viruses.

Voice of Reason:

It is very illegal to participate in the spread of a computer virus... as in federal penalties, as it technically crosses state lines.

Admittedly, you're not likely to get someone law-abiding with the virus ORIGINALLY, but most viruses don't have any stopping point, and thus you'll wind up infecting people who have done nothing worse than receive an email... Edited to add: By the way, she does nice stuff. Too bad that it's the talented who really get shafted in this, eh?

Message edited on: 10/02/2004 23:05

I'm sorry but two wrongs do NOT make a right and for anyone to suggest spreading a virus through the internet you are the one who should be locked up. Theft costs the author due to loss of income but a virus costs everyone through damage to computers, files and whole networks!

SteveJax: you're right. I wasn't sure about the legal status, rowan_crisp set me straight. The only thing I know is that it has been done. I'm strongly against theft, but viruses are even worse.

unfortunately for artists of all media types, there really is no way to prevent file sharing/file theft, unless the internet is shut down completely. its a grim fact that everybody who creates anything that can be put into a digital file has to accept. laws need to be created that prosecute individuals who participate in file theft to the same degree that laws prosecute someone who walks into your home or a store and steals something off the shelves. Its the same thing, so the penalties for it should be the same. but even then, file sharing won't stop. for every file sharing network that gets shut down, ten more spring up. and even if all the file share programs were banned/shut down, etc, as long as there are people on the internet, there will be people sharing files, either by websites, personal servers, etc. it sucks, but its a part of life that we have to accept. eventually, if enough people get together to get laws passed then maybe it wont cause as much damage, but until then, 8-( svdl does have a point though, with the first part of his post: sharing bogus files. music companies do it all the time. its pretty much the only method they have at the moment to prevent theft of songs. they put 10 second snippets of songs in a loop file that is roughly the same size as the actual song, and release it on the p2p networks. that way, over time the loop file gets spread, making it harder and harder for searches to produce a full length copy of the actual song. I don't see anything wrong with a similar method being used for things like textures and other items of poser content. Create an image, similar to the one posted above, or with a caption stating something about theft being wrong, and put it in a zip file with the same name as the real file that's being stolen. Then when some a-hole downloads the file, instead of getting the real file he gets a guilt trip. hehe. Spreading viruses over p2p networks is bad though, and could get you in a lot more trouble a lot faster. make sure the bogus file is clean. E.D.

Message edited on: 10/03/2004 00:59

You could make your files with some kind of hidden code so that if someone does spread them on peer to peer systems at least you can find out who did it originally.

Nice idea, but then you'd only be able to find the original perpetrator. The illegal copies still would be everywhere around the P2P networks. Hmm. You'd need watermarking software that can be automated. Each sale then should generate a unique watermarked texture file, and then it must be zipped and a unique link must be provided to the buyer. The problem is that the buyer should have ample time to download the purchase, say at least 24 hours. During that period, a hacker might be able to steal the file - it all depends on how well the Web server is secured. A couple of months ago I discovered that a certain merchant server wasn't secured, I was able to download her products by typing a direct link (for the record, I deleted the downloaded files and warned the merchant). Quite a few pitfalls.

I think it's fine to issue a bunk file to the p2p networks. In fact, I'm not sure about viruses, but the RIAA and various recording studios have in fact released copies of music that have screeching in them that can actually damage sound equipment if they're played. I'm not sure exactly how it works, to be honest, but it is done.

Personally, if you're that upset about it, I'd recommend diluting the stream with bunk files. One might recommend a texture that writes "I am a thief and a coward" in bold print across the figure's anatomy when applied.

Additionally, since the Poser community is fairly tightly knit, you could release a texture set to the p2p networks that looked legitimate, but had some telling differences, which would allow you to identify images posted with the false texture set. It just depends on how seriously you want to pursue the hurt.

My personal view, however, is that it's not worth being upset about. Most people who are going to download your product wouldn't pay for it anyway, and there's not a whole lot you can do about it in any case. Getting revenge or hunting them down may feel like a good idea, but there's no sense in letting it consume you or dissuade you or worse yet, waste time that could be better spent creating new products that will make you an income.

Give them an annoying little stab at them by releasing the false texture packages via p2p. It won't send them running to buy your product (most of them will only grab it because it's free), but it might make you smile a bit to think of the ten minutes of their time you've wasted. Then get on with the business of enjoying life. Which you should be doing with your girlfriend... A good source for how to do this would be Rotica, if you're both consenting adults. ;)