During the day, I do a lot of computer work putting together catalogs for galleries, layouts ,etc. Evening and early morning hours are my "down time" when I play with Poser, ZBrush, and Painter....and visit Rendo. Over a week ago I started having a problem with "dirty power" as an electrician called it. That is when the power coming into your house from the power company is low and/or erratic. Not bad enough to lose my lights or air-conditioner, but bad enough that my computer flickers like crazy (so can't be used). For me it starts at exactly 6:35 PM and last till around 7:00 AM...my "Poser down time". Living in Miami, I have to deal with Fla. Power & Light, which isn't good. I call FP&L several times a day, everyday, but get nothing but the run-around..."nobody else has a problem"...."we'll send a specialist out in a couple of weeks"...yada yada. I went to BestBuy this morning to look into anything that would help. A salesgirl shows me an APC battery backup (Uninterrupted Power Supply) for $40.00 and said that will fix my problem"GREAT Ill take it". The guy writing up the sale said it wouldnt. I ask a few more "experts" there and got ya it does....na it doesn't. Frustrated I go to CompUSA, and was shown the cure for my problem...a UPS with line filtering for $1,400.00! "Oh we have one for $800.00...but you don't want that one". Please does anybody know about this stuff, and an inexpensive way to filter out this "dirty power".... Im really starting to miss Poser. SWAMP (sad and frustrated)

Could you use a laptop? That would give you a buffering effect, since the battery-charging process isn't bothered by wiggles and spikes.

I'd recommend a good UPS. They do filter electrical noise, etc. Their software monitors the electrical status in and the status of their backup battery. The attached picture shows the # of times that my UPS has kicked in . . . Those times would all have resulted in software and possible hardware issues. My first UPS died on me - during an electrical storm . . . I think this eventually led to hardware failure of my motherboard but . . . I couldn't really prove it . . .

Hi SWAMP, Done there ... been that. ;=[ My (rural) power company (which shall remain nameless (cuz I'm in a good mood today ;=] )) has the bad habit of dropping out completely for 1-2 seconds at random times. This is, of course, VERY annoying and destructive to anything that is in process on the 'puter. After losing several hours of work (on several different occasions) I bought a UPS (which was, also, delivered by UPS, incidentally ;=] ) and I have been a "very happy camper" ever since because now I control my PC and NOT the power company. Before UPS, the scenario goes something like this ... Enter (stage left) ... the big bad guy commonly know as "brown-outs" - "drop-outs" - "dirty-power" , etc. - call it what you want, the results are the same ... loss of hair ... and data. and ... WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ... Not AGAIN! ;=[[[[[[[[ Let's solve this problem once and for all ! ... Let's install an Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS). A UPS is basically an AC-DC-AC convertor. (e.g., 110vac ----> 12vdc -----> 110vac) HOW MUCH??? Do they cost alot of pesos (dollars, yen, lire, pounds, etc)? ... Well, yes, and no ... depends on how much "time" you want to "buy." Here's how it works: It converts the AC (110vac) power from your wall outlet to (let's say 12 volts DC - like your car battery) and when the wall power is ok, it keeps the UPS's 12v battery charged. This "battery-charger" part of the UPS is not very fussy about the power it receives - it either works or it doesn't - whether it's "dirty" (i.e., noisey) or not. Ok, our UPS has a "charged" battery inside it ... We have already solved our "dirty-power" problem because the 12vdc to 110vac part of the UPS ALWAYS produces "clean" power (as long as it is able to do so ----> that is the "time" factor). ;=] We have, also, solved another problem - when the power drops out completely - even if it is only for 1-2 seconds - computers don't care - hours of work - ALL GONE !!! ;=[[[[[[[[ But, not if you have a UPS ... we sail right on through a power drop out and the computer never even knows it happened, i.e., no lost data. ;=]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ... to be continued.

@ockham
Well seeing as I don't have a laptop (OK my cat thinks he is), that isn't very cost effective for me.
But I'm wondering about what you said concerning the "battery-charging process" not being bothered.

From what I understood from just one of the salesclerks, that is how those UPS battery back-ups work....and why one would fix my problem.

Ah the agony of being at the mercy of some pimple-faced kids at the local "puter superstore".

@thorntoa
I understand that a UPS kicks in when you have a complete power fail or strong brown-out.
Also that it takes care of electrical noise from appliances (I moved my frozen pina-colada blender away from my puter...cat was drinking out of it anyway).
Looking at your performance summery it ran for a total of less than three min...which covered when your power went wonky.
But will they kick in and run all night to filter this "dirty power" thingy?
That's what I don't understand.

Thanks SWAMP
Edited after the good dr.geep reply... @geep The "Time factor"....that's what I can't find out..my power problem is steady all night,not intermitted.

Message edited on: 10/24/2004 12:26

... continued from above ... Electrical power is measured in Watts (also called VA for Volt/Amperes) ... the more Watts, the more power. ;=] Here are 3 ("APC") UPS units currently listed on Amazon.com and their price (U$). 800 Watts ...... $ 125.95 (+ S&H) 1,000 Watts ...... $ 149.87 (+ S&H) 1,500 Watts ...... $ 179.88 (+ S&H) What size do I need? Well, that depends on how much power (Watts) your system requires and how long you want it to operate when the 110vac power goes off. If your system needs a lot of power (i.e., lotsa Wattsa) the UPS may not keep your PC running very long, maybe only a few minutes - BUT - maybe, also, that is long enough to save your important WIP (work in process) back to the HDD (or floppy or CD) and save your hair, also. ;=] Dr Geep has a 1.9GHZ PC w 1GB RAM and a 21" color monitor. <--- the monitor is usually the biggest power hungry beast. His UPS is an "APC" (~650 Watts) and will power his system for 8-10 minutes after the power goes out (completely). Dr Geep is very happy with his UPS and has only had to replace the internal battery once in 6 years of constant operation. (and it was very easy to do) ;=] cheers, dr geep ;=]

Attached Link: UPS at TigerDirect

For a simple answer, you can get a decent UPS for $100 or under. I lived in Florida for many years, and I bought a UPS within the first month. I now live up North, and we have lousy wiring in our house. If you run the microwave, the circuit that handles the computer trips. Ouch. Here is a link for a UPS that currently has my interest. My past employers had a couple hundred of them for their computers.

The time factor: If you have (some) power but it is just "noisy", the UPS will filter it out completely. The "time" factor only applies when the 110vac power goes out completely - or a severe "brown-out.". The UPS will (usually) "beep" (every few seconds) to let you know when it is running on it's internal battery and the "clock" (i.e., time) is ticking down. cheers, dr geep <--------------- is happy with Poser and a UPS ;=] P.S. Read the power (Watts) requirements on the name plates of your equipment and then figure out how big a UPS uinit you need. Remember, the more (UPS) Watts, the longer the "time." Happy computing ... a UPS is cheap insurance against hair loss, also. ;=]

FYI ... and ... ... with all due respect to Bobbie_Boucher ... ;=] The link is to a UPS that (may) be on the smallish size depending on your power requirements. cheers, dr geep ;=]

You have a valid point, Good Doctor. One thing that really caught my eye is the 8 widely-spaced outlets. Unfortunately too many of the UPS's or Power strips don't seem to have "reality in mind," when it comes to the arrangement of their outlets. Every time I get something new, it has some nice, large "brick" power supply.

from experience. buy an APC. don't buy from anyone else. it fails, (it can happen), within 24hours there will be a brand new one at your home/workplace, shipping free. you pack up the failed one in the same box and send it back. (again, shipping free). I was in a building that was hit by lightning. the phone system blew out, 4 computers, the light circuit and the only thing that saved the servers? our APC. on the power chart, you could see when the bolt hit a spike that went straight off the screen. the APC absorbed it and kept on going for another month before it failed. this is one company I trust !

Call me nuts, but I live in a 6 suite appartments which causes all sorts of erratic power flutters, so I filtered my power with a 1.5v D cell battery, and .5 farad capacitor stolen from my car stereo. Fixed it up good as new. Btw, I built my computer out of garbage cans, and back ally specials, so I wouldn't reccommend the Red Green fix to anyone. Just shop around, ask questions, and base your judgment on what you think is best.

Attached Link: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1059745772757&productCategoryId=cat08029&type=product

Thanks dr geep...very helpful.

Since you are the "man in the know, I have one more question:

If I only want a UPS to filter the noise, do I need to worry about the size (would the one at the attached link suffice?).

For backups I already have:

A duplicate computer/monitor with all programs installed (boxed not plugged into any outlets).

My work (what I get paid for) is saved every five min. to an external ZipDrive that does has it's own built in power backup. A bank of three inline surge protectors.

Lighting insurance policy that covers computer replacement...not kidding, I really do (South Fla. is the lighting capitol of the US).

So I'm not real concerned about lost data or equipment, or how long I can use my computer after lost of power.

Thanks again...you are without a doubt THE most helpful person on the net.

SWAMP

Message edited on: 10/24/2004 13:51

Hi SWAMP,

re: "If I only want a UPS to filter the noise, do I need to worry about the size (would the one at the attached link suffice?)."

In a word ... yes. ;=]

Just remember that:

Lightning never strikes twice in the same place ...
... because ... it doesn't have to!

No UPS or surge protector can protect against or survive a direct hit by lightning. ;=[

And ... Doc sez: "Thank you for the nice compliment." ;=]
(but ... NaySayGuy sez: --->"Even if it are not da true, dough!"

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

okay, first all...constant power fluctuations, whether brownouts, power outages or over/under voltages will eventually kill your pc's hardware...for example, my hubby and I both have had to replace hard drives (and other hardware) because the capacitors (sp?) blew due to this exact kind of thing... we now have an APC battery backup which we got from Tiger Direct (we bought it through Amazon, but it came from Tiger Direct)...LOVE it! it tells you how many times it has intervened within a time period you specifiy, ie: last 12 weeks...you'd freak if you could see how many power fluctuations of all kinds there are in a time period like that...it is good for about 1/2 hour of backup time and you can program it to shut down your computer safely for you at any time within that half hour...WELL worth the money, especially when you dont have to keep replacing your hardware!!!!!!!! :D http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00014WBI4/ref=pd_sbs_e_2/002-8278651-0398431?v=glance&s=electronics

I'm amazed at how many savvy computer salesmen told me that a Surge Protector or UPS are not necessary because today's computers have the proper builtin equipment to handle such problems. Perhaps they were more interested in the money they'd get when the customers' computers were zapped, and they wanted to buy new ones?!

APC makes good UPS's..what you want is line filtering, and a battery backup. Got one at Wally World for about $100..they're pretty good at what they do (have one on this computer)..small world, I used to do computer support for FPL (back when it was CP&L), fixed their servers, and they used APC's..in 7 years, 1 died, out of hundreds..so go for it.
Computers do have some filtering circuitry, but it's mainly converting the external AC to internal DC (what the motherboard runs on). Thing about large spikes, is that they degrade the protection circuitry over time. The 'power protection'ones that look like power strips work ok..but only for small work (actually, mine looks like a power strip, only it's about 3 times that size.;).
The important thing the battery gets you is a few minutes to save your work and turn off the PC.
After all the hurricanes you've had, the problem sounds like it might be on the outside of the house..power companies 'play' with the voltage all the time..sometimes they 'brown out' industrial areas, like on the weekend, particularly if demand is high..residential sections are supposed to get first priority. Good luck, hope the voltage settles down down there soon..

I'd been hunting for a surge protector strip that allowed enough room for several "power supply" bricks. I finally found one that looked great, for $20 (it's just for miscellaneous stuff that sits near the computers). Wouldn't you know, APC made it. They even included a free high-speed internet cable (fancy name for a fancy phone cord for DSL). That thing sits nicely on the table, and handles my 3 "bricks" just fine.

Here I go being pedantic again. Electricity consumption is certainly measured in Watts (W), or possibly in VA meaning volts times amps. There are subtle differences, but to all intents and purposes 1 VA = 1 W. However, that is the RATE of electricity consumption not the total amount consumed. If your computer is, for instance, a 330W machine then it is consuming electricity at the rate of 330W (because it is operating at 110 volts and drawing a current of 3 Amps - remember W = V times A). This will produce about three times as much heat as a 100W light bulb. To determine how long a UPS will run your computer you need to know the watt-hours or kiloWatt-hours (kWh) that the UPS battery can provide. I've not actually looked at buying a UPSs so I don't know if the manufacturers publicise these figures or not. A 330Wh UPS ought to be able to power a 330W computer for one hour. I suspect most of them only power the machine little more than long enough for for the inbuilt software to power your machine down gracefully without doing any damage. To power a big computer it needs a big transformer (the squarish metal bit with loads of copper wire) and to keep things going for a long time it needs a big battery (theblack squarish thing that starts your car/automobile). I suffer from power outages in the relatively remote bit of the UK where I live and I certainly intend to get a UPS one of these days to cope with the complete 'outage' situation. For mushy mains though, I'd be inclined to go for mains filtering which will smooth out the spikes that can otherwise cause problems. In your situation I guess I'd go for both. The UPS needs to have a wattage higher than than the wattage stated somewhere on your computer (otherwise it just won't run it at all) and a kWh rating of this number multiplied by the number of hours you want it to keep things going once the power has failed. It's also best to add on quite a large safety factor just in case the manufacturers are optimistic with their numbers. A car battery will produce voltage for a long long time, but it just won't have enough 'oomph' to turn your engine over anywhere near that long.