Hi again! To start with, i only hope this post doesn't make anyone angry... :S

I've navigated a lot through the marketplace searching for V3 stuff, seen lots of clothes, lots of textures, lots of designs, (just like anyone else...), and what I've realized is that most of the designs tend to be fantasy-like, or erotic/fetish kind of stuff. I particularly don't like much any of these styles, and these cram 90% of the store (at least the part dedicated to v3). There are great exceptions, like wusamah, seraphira, and others that make simple but stylish good quality everyday clothing. But they're a minority among the vast majority of 12" spiked leather boots, transparent lace blouses, and metal plated sci fi suits... :D God I don't see many of these when I walk around my neighbourhood!!

I understand the capability of Poser to make "true" lots of people's fantasies, and I'm definitely not against it. But on a more professional way, I think that staying closer to a "real life" level would add more to the R'osity community and to Poser itself. (don't think I made it clear: 3Dsmax is not commonly used to make figures of castles, dungeons, or swords, but buildings, rooms, and mechanic objects...)

I'm not a modeller at all, and I rely on other people's creations, so I'd like to encourage everyone to use their creative skills in a more "real" way. To say, I'd like to see more shirts and sneakers (for example...) and less corsets and domina-boots.

Anyway, it's just my personal opinion. i hope nobody gets offended, but encouraged instead. Thanks everyone!

Ike.

Have you tried "poserworld"? Steve put out some "everyday clothes" for all the millennium and non millennium characters you can think of. :o)

I second JVRenderer about Poserworld. There's everything there from military uniforms to waitress outfits. I've spotted business suits, dungerees, and winter coats. The site also has loads of everyday environments and a couple of very nice vehicles. And if you need something special, requests seem to be welcomed!

I think Max, Maya etc. are used to make many a castle and dragon, just as some people use Poser to do accident reconstruction, crime scenes ads or other "professional" things so I don't think the program used is important. They're all just tools to do whatever the user wants. I agree that there's not a lot of everyday clothing, compared to the fantasy/fetish genre. You're certainly not the first person to lament the situation. I'm not sure why the content creators haven't responded more. Part of it is probably a circular kind of thing. The see that type of clothing everywhere so that's what they create so that's what's more available. Maybe they've tried creating everyday apparel and it hasn't sold as well, I don't know. As to the demand side, I think the fact that more people aren't clamoring for jeans and tank tops is perhaps an indication that a lot of folks are happy with what's available style wise and it fits in with the type of images they want to create. Of course again, it may be circular. Perhaps if more real world styles were available, more people would do real world images I don't know that one either. I think you're right that some more variety might help to expand horizons and possibly even change Poser's image a little. Seeing nothing but skimpy armor and underwear does perhaps contribute somewhat to Poser's reputation among some as a cheesecake application. You might try writing some people whose quality (if not style) you admire and asking them if they would consider doing some more Sears catalog type items. If you take what is out there and start doing some nice images, maybe you inspire other people. Post a challenge to others to do real life images. Maybe business suited Vicky in a temple with an Ipod will be come a new trend :-)

I suspect part of the issue with real world clothing, based on what I've seen, is that many clothing creators who try it make something that's already available, and then conclude their sales are because people don't actually want any real world items. For instance, hypothetically, say Bob decides "OK, people want real world clothes, I'll make Vicky jeans and a tight T-shirt and see if it sells." I don't buy, and Bob concludes I don't actually want real world items. The problem is actually that I already have jeans and a tight T-shirt for Vicky. I don't want another one. I need a loose T-shirt, or a sweatsuit, or comfy jammies, or a business suit, or jogging shorts, or a pair of normal everyday type shoes, or any number of other items I don't have yet. If Bob had made one of those, I would have about broken my wrist slapping my credit card down. Because many of the real world items I've seen are very similar to each other, I have to wonder if maybe this is what's happening.

Yhat's probably is a factor, FyreSpiryt. I used the Sears catalog half jokingly but a perusal of that worthy tome would yield a wealth of ideas that haven't been done. For that matter, we don't see any haute coture either. Doesn't Vicky ever hit Cannes, Monte Carlo or any place besides the temple and the supermarket? Maybe people should start a thread with example duds and point the clothing creators to it. Enough "I would definitely buy that," might light a fire under them.

Nice to hear your opinions guys, I thought everyone would come ramming to this post to proclaim "long live the spiked armors!". I think that the idea of a circular feedback problem between creators and users might be one of the reasons, but in the other hand, I see the Uzilite collection everywhere in the galleries, and I assume there is a demand for this product. When I talked about everyday clothes, I didn't exactly talk in reference to Sears catalogs or any... (i think lmckenzie got it...) I was referring to this kind of "Uzilite" style. This designs are trendy, fashionable, and "wearable". I know there are a lot of plain T shirts and other everyday clothes in poserpros and other websites, I just wanted to highlight these in contrast to the majority of clothes that are sold here. (they're sometimes usable after a quick pass through UV mapper and photoshop)

My main point is to try to encourage modellers to really learn tailoring some good clothes, to make them look at fashion magazines and get ideas (I wish...) I've seen some new designs by outoftouch, Poserdreams, and royloo (in poserpros), that follow perfectly these guidelines. But these are still too few.

The idea of posting examples and all, sounds great, but it could all go very wrong. It could end up being a "please model the figure of my girlfriend please please please..." kind of thing, don't you think? I've seen good stuff coming from the Freestuff forum in poserpros though...

For now, the only chance is to spend more hours customizing my own textures... it's fun sometimes... (and waiting for those beloved modelers to release a new item)...:D

Message edited on: 11/06/2004 17:12

Interesting topic. I've spent the last year making 'real' environments, ie. rooms with doors and windows. Nothing gothic or antique. Just normal rooms. In fact, I'm about to release the first 2 parts of a 5-room apartment with real-world furnishings. Now, I can't complain about sales at all. In fact, I'm doing very well. But I sometimes wonder what people do with my stuff. If you look through the galleries, there aren't that many everyday scenes, at least, not compared with the huge amount of fantasy stuff. You see, everyday things aren't 'trendy' (for lack of a better word). It's not considered hip to make ordinary stuff, in fact it's looked on as being 'too easy', and it's not easy at all. I've just finished building a fitted kitchen unit which took a month - just to model and uv map. I haven't even started on the texs yet. And that's only one wall of the kitchen. I need to fill the other 3 walls before I have a full pack to release. Anyway, in a previous life I was a fashion photographer, so I know a lot about high-fashion garments. I keep promising myself that if I ever get the time, I'll start a range of haute-couture clothing. I've noticed the startling lack of clothes too. Not so much in the t-shirt and jeans department, but good fashion wear. In the end though, creators have to do things they're interested in, unless they're in it purely on a mercenary basis. I guess a lot of people are into fantasy. Now that says a lot about our normal humdrum lives, doesn't it? mac

Perhaps Vogue instead of Sears? Uzilite is a perfect example though. His stuff is very nice. I think Mac has a good point. Most people don't make a living doing Poser stuff so personal preferences probably play a large part in what they choose to create. It's rather pointless to speculate on why people prefer fantasy. Actually, it's all fantasy. Some is just more fantastic than others. You just don't see a lot of Poser equivalents of American Gothic, Whistler's Mother or the king of images of common people in everyday situations that Vermeer and many other artists did so well. That's not to say there isn't some but Poser is art for the masses so one should expect a different bias twoards genre. In some of its more commercial uses, pre-visualization, forensics, low budget commercials, etc. a fashion wardrobe probably isn't that important.

It's this gap that actually led to Some of the Ditties that ODF has produced (and will continue to do so) -- simple, real world clothing at a great price (1.49 - now that's a great price).

There's not much right now, but it's only a start -- and will continue indefinitely.

Never give a sucker and even break...
...compound fractures are much more fun Get Ditty With It!

Support Your Independent Content Vendors

I'm learning about modelling and I'd love to eventually make clothing for Poser. I've seen all kinds of clothing in stores when I go to the mall that I'd totally love to Poser-ize, but wouldn't that be some kind of copyright violation? Vogue is a great source, any high fashion type magazine, and actually I hang on to old Victoria's Secret catalogs for the clothing (not the lingerie, I actually like the 'regular' clothing they have too).

That's an interesting question. I have no idea whether clothing is copyrighted. You see look-alikes all the time. After the Oscars companies usually make dresses that look very similar to what some of the stars were wearing. I'd guess that as long as you dont market it using the designer's name it'd be OK, esp. if yours is slightly different. Try asking in the copyright forum.

Yep. I'd say that as long as you avoid using brand names, you'll be OK. Just don't call your clothes 'Stella McCartney for Poser' or anything. The fashion industry is pretty incestuous. They all rip each other off like crazy. It's called 'referencing', which basically means looking through old magazines and stealing ideas. The clothes are mostly so inbred that it would be difficult to know if you were copying or not. But I'd still avoid exact copies. You can use a piece as a base idea, and elaborate on it. Copying's no fun anyway. Um.... can you tell I was a fashion photographer? No one hates the industry like the people who were in it. LOL. mac

'After the Oscars companies usually make dresses that look very similar to what some of the stars were wearing' Probably with permission. mac

Could be. I've noticed they never seem to be exact copies, though close. Also of course, I'm sure the materials are probably less expensive in many cases--certainly no diamond encrustations for JC Penny. The only fashion copy Poser I remember is someone did the infamous J Lo Oscar dress from a few years back. Have to morph Vicky down a few pounds to do some of the "heroin chic" look that people were up in arms about. I'd actually like to see what people could accomplish im emulating fashion ads.

maclean, thanks for the input. I doubt I'd be able to do an exact copy of anything for quite a while anyway. The fashion industry is definately inbred- I mean, take a look at your basic jeans. They're pretty much all the same except for the name that's on the tag.

'After the Oscars companies usually make dresses that look very similar to what some of the stars were wearing'

Rarely with permission. Permission is never given as it is considered to dilute the brand. Licensing is also out.

You can copyright a pattern (the layout design from which teh fabric is cut), you can trademark a design (the designer's label, but not the look of an article of clothing). However, neither affect the creation of clothing in and for Poser and other 3D applications.

It's all pretty much fair game -- but do not run around calling your poser clothing "Bill Blass for men", lol

Never give a sucker and even break...
...compound fractures are much more fun Get Ditty With It!

Support Your Independent Content Vendors

Fantasy. :-)

People often bemoan the lack of "normal" or "realistic" stuff. Perhaps if more people made that sort of thing, Poser would attract a different customer base. But the current customer base seems to prefer fantasy.

I prefer science fiction, m'self. Seriously, though...it's a crying shame that there aren't enough normal clothes for the Vic character and too much fantasy crap. With all of these horrible, impractical, uncomfortable fantasy-style clothes, Vickie looks...well, trashy. At least Mike has halfway decent clothing.(What I want the most is more Fantasy-style clothing for the Animedoll, because she's most suited for it. Vickie is realistic, let her wear things that are at least semi-plausible, sheesh!)

Attached Link: http://www.morphography.uk.vu/dlclothing.html

Well, this was an extremely informative thread, glad you started it Ike! Guess this means I'll be packing my sketchpad and my digi-cam next time I hit the mall. And I'm about out of excuses now to learn my modelling software. Drat. :D ynsaen, thanks...you answered the exact question that I wanted to ask but was too shy to!

randym, Cool pic! Thanks for showing that. I'll add it to my growing collection. (Love the cat, BTW). cheers mac