After many months of debating, justifying and researching, a few months ago, I finally took the plunge and purchased a Nikon D70. Last week, I returned the fifth and last...( yes 5!)...brand new out of the box Nikon D70 camera. ALL five cameras exhibited spotting on the images...but, they only showed up on a nice uniform light background...like a nice blue sky! Some cameras had only one or two spots while one of the ones I had showed 14 dark spots. And, no...it wasn't anything I did...the last two cameras were taken out of freshly sealed boxes in the store, loaded with a charged battery and CF card...then taken outside to take shots of a blue sky...the card then read on the PC in the store...same results...although the dispersion of the spotting and # of spots was always different with each camera. Has anyone here had similar experiences?....I am still waiting to hear back from Nikon....

I have never heard of that but I have the D100. I am on my second one. The first one was stolen. Go with the D100, better body (Metel as apposed to plastic) and just a more stable camera. Best camera I have ever owned! Magick Michael

Its dust on the sensor you will allways get that with digital slr cameras no matter what you do. Dust will get in there almost every time you change lenses. Just clone them out or buy a digital camera with a fixed lens.

It is a common with DSLR's as azy says. Never come across it on a brand new cam though. It is always more noticeable on a light background especially at a smaller aperture like f16-f22, at f4 or f5.6 it is almost un-noticeable. This is not a problem specific to Nikon, same with Canon 300D 10D etc. I have seen a sensor with 68 spots. Lens changing technique is very important, and the cam MUST be completely powered down to swap lenses, or the static charge in the sensor is like a dust magnet.

If it is dust, that is understandable....but...on a brand new out of the box unit...or should I say 5 of them? On all five cameras I tested....NONE of them had the lens removed after the first time the lens was put on out of the box ( all lenses initially installed with NO battery in the cam). So, again if it is dust...the dust is on the sensor right out of the factory...that to me just shows poor quality control. @LostPatrol...yes, you are correct the spots are more apparent at higher f stops...but I have seen them at f8...so if I have to keeping shooting at f8 or less, I am unable to use the upper 70% of my aperture range. @zhounder...friend of mine has the D100, it's a year old now...he checked his last night...he too has some spotting although minor. Still haven't heard back from Nikon...I doubt that I ever will.

gradient I agree that out of the box it should be perfect or at least 99% perfect.

I have tested 6 Canon DSLR's out of the box and have not so far come across any visible spotting @f22. I use a white target and fire the cameras at the same settings f22 f11 f8 f5.6 and f4 from a tripod.

I cant speak for Nikon but Canon are taking it seriously and offer free cleaning during the guarantee period.

As you say it must be a packing process problem, and no response seems to be a poor show on Nikons part.

The sensor dust issue is however a problem with DSLR's and something that you either accept with time (but not from the box that to me is unacceptable.)
Or chose another type of camera

Message edited on: 11/25/2004 14:54

Attached Link: Cleaning CCDs by Thom Hogan

The link provides a very detailed description of how to clean the photosensor in a DSLR. After reading that material, please choose *one* option: (1) Ack! Eep! Gack! I don't ever want to touch that! conclusion: Perhaps a DSLR is not for you. (2) Hmmmmmm ... whenever I change the lens, dust may get onto the image sensor ... it can be cleaned ... it must be done with care ... it takes special materials. conclusion: I will have to live with it. MGD

Attached Link: Thom Hogan: My Nikon Service Experience

I don't have a Nikon D70 ... probably not ever. What I have is a Nikon coolpix 4300 4.0 effective MP. After the lens locked up -- would not open/close when I wanted, I 'audited' their repair process. By 'audit' I mean that by submitting my camera to obtain warranty service, I know far more than I ever wanted to know about how the Nikon repair system does not work. My experience probably applies equally well to out of warranty repairs. This could be called "Repair via Black Hole Transit". (1) I called for advice ... got an eMail reply that confirmed our conversation. (2) I sent the camera via Priority Mail, insured, with Delivery Confirmation. Inside had a printed note with the usual: camera; serial number; my name and address; phone numbers; and eMail address -- even a copy of their eMail to me. (3) I knew it was delivered -- because I used USPS Delivery Confirmation. (4) They could *never* confirm when it was received. (5) They did not have a way to acknowledge receipt or track the repair process by using the Delivery Confirmation tracking number, or by my name, or by my return address, or camera serial number. (6) After several phone calls, over about 1 week, they said that the receiving department might have had 'other duties' that delayed entering the repair request in their online database. Another time they said that the camera would not go into the repair database until after the package was opened and inventoried. (7) More than 1 week after they received it, the web-based tracking system could tell me that it was in process. However, the only way I could see it was to know their 'service order number' which would be sent by letter. I obtained that number by begging and groveling. (8) Almost 3 weeks after they actually received the camera, it was returned fully repaired. (9) The *next day* I got a letter with their repair tracking number -- also said that it would ship soon. An additional *major* problem with their repair process is that updates to the repair database are batched and applied overnight -- or the day after that. IOW, when I checked the repair status via the web, I was seeing history -- not the actual status. Yes, I made sure they knew my feelings about how they handled the repair -- they even admitted they were unsatisfied with their own repair tracking system. They were going to correct those issues when their 'user department' identified all of the issues. MGD P.S. After writing this, I did a web search and found the linked article.

Thanks for all your replies. I did ultimately receive a refund for the purchase price of the camera from the store...NOT Nikon. I am however still out of pocket for some peripherals I bought that are specific to this camera/lens. So, in the meantime I will wait for the "dust" to settle so to speak...and go back to film for the time being. BTW: It has now been a week with no response from Nikon, so I called again....apparently the rep will be contacting me.... @MGD: Thanks for the cleaning article.....you are right, I don't think I want to be going in there...LOL! Regarding yours and Thom Hogan's service experience...it sure dosen't give me a lot of confidence. Funny thing is that many shops in my area can not keep the D70's in stock and even have purchase waiting lists. That to me means one of 2 things...1)Folks here have way too much spare cash...or...2)All the D70's keep going back for repairs. I will let you know if I ever hear back from Nikon.

That to me means one of 2 things... How about more than 2 things? ... (3) Folks who buy D70's prefer looking at pretty pictures instead of reading camera reports and/or reviews. (4) Folks might be buying D70's because they think the Big Lens (TM) is a babe magnet. MGD

Hmmm... even after reading this, I still intend to buy myself a D-70 for Christmas. "1)Folks here have way too much spare cash..." No not really, but I believe that for the price/options it's a good value. "2)All the D70's keep going back for repairs." Haven't read/heard lots of complaints about the D-70.... and your issue seems unusual... although as already discussed dust in a common issue for all dslr's. "(3) Folks who buy D70's prefer looking at pretty pictures instead of reading camera reports and/or reviews." Hmmmm.... really? Doesn't describe me..... "(4) Folks might be buying D70's because they think the Big Lens (TM) is a babe magnet." Yeah.... maybe if I were a lesbian....

Hey, I've been looking for one of those Babe Magnet thingies. Thought Donald had promised to send me one? I've nothing really to add here. Dust is one of the problems that has kept me away from digital SLR's. Though one would think it pretty much stays behind the mirror???

@Michelle A: Good luck with your purchase...hope your experience will be more positive than mine was. Please let me know how things work out for you. I am still hopeful that I can get a satisfactory explanation to my experience from the Nikon people. I suspect the reason there haven't been many complaints is that for many D70 purchasers, the dial never leaves auto mode....and I also suspect that most don't test the sensor out prior to or just after purchase. Again, unless the background is light and uniform, the spotting is not noticeable.....although in reality it is still there. @misha883...the dust does stay behind the mirror....unfortunately that's where the sensor hides...lol.

Misha - It must have gotten lost in the mail. Pity. :) You know, I can't imagine why you would ever use the "spatula" method of cleaning a CCD/CMOS array. Every DSLR that I know of has a cleaning mode that turns off the charge to the array to allow you to use a duster (not compressed gas) to blow dust off of the array. If there is a stubborn piece, use a "magic wand" (it attracts dust to its tip so you don't have to touch the surface). I wonder if using the swab method of cleaning could actually violate your warranty as it's not a prescribed method of cleaning. All of the pro shops I've talked to use low pressure air and a "magic wand" to clean DSLRs. As for the D70 spotting, I've seen a few posts about it and they pretty much all say that it's just dust. Switch it into cleaning mode, blow it out with a bulb blower and you're done. -=>Donald

looking for one of those Babe Magnet thingies

IMNSHO, there is only one Babe Magnet (TM) camera and
here is the methodology to assemble one. I checked eBay.com
for these components in low to high price sequence.
The "B" after the price is a Buy-it-Now;
the "R" stands for a Reserve price ... YMMV.

$700 B Hasselblad 500C 80mm f/2.8 Zeiss Arca Swiss A12 #01

plus at least one lens ...

$750 B Hasselblad 150mm CF f/4 T* lens
$750 B Hasselblad 250mm f/5.6 Zeiss T* Black
$450 R Hasselblad 250mm f/5.6 Sonnar chrome
$439 R Hasselblad 250mm C f/5.6 Zeiss chrome #02

$60 lens hood (aprox) #03

Notes ...
#01 500C listing, the "Arca Swiss" is a Polaroid back.

#02 This is the "owned by a little old lady, driven only
on Sunday" auction entry. I mention this due to the
seller's claim that it was seldom used -- only 5 frames
(about) each wedding. Don't you love auctions?

#03 lens hood -- good to get: functional, needed for sports
view finder; adds 1.5" to length of the lens

Additional considerations ...

1. 500C/M allows interchangeable focus screen but 500C does
   not -- discount has already been applied. LOL

2. Hasselblad 500 series use waist level focusing or you add
   a prism viewfinder

$125 B Hasselblad Meter Prism, 45 degree

1. Film backs ... you could choose A12 (120 film), 24 or A24
   (220 film), 16 exp. 6x4.5 (120 film), Polaroid film back,
   70mm film 70 exposures.

If you get a second film back, it is a good idea to stay
with the same size film (120 or 220).

1. Be sure the body/lens combination will work.

2. Black finish v. Chrome finish -- Black would be 'OK' for
   taking pictures ... but for a Babe Magnet, you might want
   to choose chrome finish to match the camera body
   -- also shiny!.

3. No need to buy a fancy camera bag ... just put it on your
   shoulder and hold it by the lens as you walk along the
   beach, mall, Rodeo Drive, ...

Bzzzzzzt! No, the answer is money. Thank you for playing.

MGD

Message edited on: 11/26/2004 05:24

Michelle Two of my friends have the Nikon D70 and IMHO it is a great camera and produces superb clean images (as in noiseless) I have used one of them and it handles very well, I prefer the Canon but that is more to do with being used to the controls/menus rather than the camera itself. There isnt much to seperate the Rebel and D70 and it would be nit picking anyway. Dust is and may always be an issue, it kind of goes with the territory, and is really a small annoyances of DSLR's Go ahead and treat yourself, Im sure you wont regret it

Yes I have a friend that has the D70, and loves it. ( I have the Canon 300D) From what I have read the D70 seems to attract dust more, and I have heard of a few people that had Dust right out of the box. D70 is a very good camera, just blow the dust off the sensor with a bulb, and you are ready to start. Dust is not just a DLSR problem, I cleaned my film camera at least one a month. Dust would get on the mirror, and show up in my photos.

I'm sure I won't Simon.... every review I've read has compared it to both the D-Rebel and the Nikon D-100.... all very similar.... While I had actually considered going with the D-100.... the metal body vs plastic is irrelevant to me... I am very gentle with my camera equipment...(usually), and feature for feature the D-100 and the D-70 are almost identical. Though the D-70 does have a few improvements... The fact that one is considered more pro and the other consumer is also irrelevant to me.... while equipment can make a difference in quality, all cameras really are just light boxes... it's how you use the tool that matters. There is however a small price difference, which made a difference to me in which to chose Canon's are nice, used to use them, still have all my old f mount lenses and cameras, but when I made the switch over to the Nikon system and lenses, well.... switching back to Canon and having to invest in new lenses doesn't quite make sense financially.....

Yes changing over to the Canon and all the lenses you will need, would be an expensive ordeal indeed. I had a shot with the Nikon D1X (I think) very impressive and fast, BIG $$$/ though. Canon/Nikon Nikon/Canon there isnt much to pick between them, trying to keep up with the tech race will drive you mad if you let it. he he To be fair IMO the Nikon feels a little more solid than the Rebel, and like you say the plastic body isnt really an issue if you are careful. Have fun with your new light box when you get it, and yes it is how you use it that counts (have failed on that one a couple of times!) LP

Attached Link: http://www.pbase.com/copperhill/ccd_cleaning

For what it'a worth...a quote from the attached link...some pics with spotting as well.... "The major D-SLR manufacturers are notorious for selling brand spanking new cameras, pre-loaded with dust. You must try to relax and calm down, though, because if you send it back and get a second one, the odds are overwhelming that it too will be just as dusty. OK, so let's go to the user manuals. The recommended procedures in the Nikon user's guide are actually humorous in how ineffective they are. After doing exactly what was specified, including the oh-so-elegant-and-ever-so-dainty "POOF" from a bulb blower, I still had spots in my images. So I waved the white flag and sent it back to Nikon for cleaning. When it returned, it had the exact same number of dust specks as before, 28, to be precise, but they were nice enough to have rearranged all 28 for me. Hearing from others who had the same results with Nikon, Canon, et. al., I realized that this would get me nowhere fast, so I set out to find a good working method of self-cleaning the sensor. I started with manual blowers, like the herculean-sounding "Rocket". As far as dust removal goes, the Rocket landed with a thud; it moved the loose particles around the chamber very well though (more on this in the next page). With frustration mounting day by day, I ratcheted it up a couple of notches and went for more power with canned air and then compressed air. All of these blowers stirred up the loose dust particles - some of the dust escaped the chamber, but MOST of it just moved around on the sensor. All of them were no match for the stuck specks. I tried several types of vacuums, including various computer-vacs and a 2.25 horsepower Shop-Vac (yes, I was a wee bit desperate at that point). They performed as poorly as the blowers. Not until later did I find out how risky it is using any of the high-powered blowers and vacuums (more on this in the next page). I was very lucky I didn't ruin my camera. Anyone who promises you fantastic results from either a vacuum or a blower, cannot possibly own and clean a D-SLR"

Quote Randydrives: Dust would get on the mirror, and show up in my photos. Cannot see how that is possible? LostPatrol: Yes, I took my 1D mk2 in to be cleaned to the Canon depot (Elstree, 16 miles away, lucky i guess)..and two hrs later, cleaned, free of charge :)

Gradient - Sounds like a guy who didn't understand how to use the bulb to clean it. :) For those who don't know, make sure that after you switch your camera into cleaning mode and before you start puffing air inside it that you turn the camera upside down (meaning the lens mount and opening point down). So that when you puff air into it, the dust falls down and out of the camera. Otherwise you're just blowing dust around inside the chamber. And before you stick anything into your DSLR, remember that despite what some might think, the array in your camera is not covered by a protective glass layer. It's covered by the anti-aliasing filter. Damage that and dust will be the least of your problems. -=>Donald

Yes, perhaps you are correct...maybe the guy didn't know what he was doing. BUT... a thought just ocurred to me...Maybe, just maybe the problem lies in the fact that the sensor remains charged at all times when the cam is powered up? If I recall correctly, all that happens is the mirror locks up to allow for access to the sensor. If the sensor remains charged during lock up, it will happily attract all the dust it can. Again, just a thought... Anyway, great discussion...and, I can understand (and live with) dust maintenance but still my disappointment with 5 brand new D70's remains....

Gradient - That was a flippant comment on my part. Guy could well know what he was doing with the bulb (although the vacuum cleaner part made me cringe). As for the charged sensor part, that's what cleaning mode is for. When a camera is switched into cleaning mode, the cleaning circuit not only locks the mirror up but also cuts the charge to the sensor array and the static is dissapated. One more really important note for cleaning. This was a killer for a friend. If you don't have the AC adapter for your camera and use a battery while cleaning it, make sure the battery is fully charged and you work somewhat quickly. He was in the middle of cleaning, taking his own sweet time, with the bulb end inside when his battery died on him and the mirror slammed shut, catching the bulb end inside and damaging his mirror. He was not happy.

Donald
That is a very good point, and it is also possible to damage the shutter curtains (an even bigger problem) and possible even the sensor itself (didaster)
On the 10D, it wont let you enter cleaning mode unless you have a fully charged battery.

I use these; they are excellent if a little costly. They are custom made for each sensor type/size/make

Of course using these is at your own risk. I was shown the proper method by a pro camera technician, it is however a very nerve-racking experience the first time, and requires a steady hand.

http://www.crown-digital.co.uk/ishop/883/shopscr15.html
UK

http://www.2filter.com/prices/products/eclipse.html
USA

To be honest I leave it alone until it gets quite visible, for me once or twice a year seems to be ok.

The sensor dust issue is well documented and IMO it is something you either have to accept or choose another type of camera

LP

Message edited on: 11/27/2004 07:38

Yes I mis spoked or mis-typed. Dust on the mirror would not show up on the photo, but in the viewfinder. Thanks for correcting my mistake. Cleaning was still apart of having a film camera, now the DSLR we have one more item to clean. How be it a much more sensitive item. I will, (still have not cleaned my sensor yet) gladly give a few minutes to cleaning the sensor, vs. taking film to the lab and picking it up. Time wise probably not much difference, but for some reason, it is just harder to get the film developed.

Funny.... I'm just the opposite Randy.... I'll develop the film myself same day.... or in the case of color run right off to the lab, but I'll let my images sit for days if not weeks on the cf card.... because I just don't feel like sitting in front of the computer and processing them.... Oh and dust on the mirror, even though it doesn't show up in images drives me mad.... can't stand to see it there....