Based upon discussions in some recent threads, I've opted to play it conservatively and have removed my "Doctor Who" related free items before I may be given an official "warning". Not that it really means anything in the grand scheme of life, but I'd rather not be penalized for actions that were once deemed acceptable. There are people here I've grown to like, and there is much valued information to be utilized. If I were banned, I would no longer have access to that information or some of my friends. This does not mean I will lock away the files, never to be shared again. Rather, I will seek other venues such as other sites still willing to share fan material. I will let you know what site(s) I have selected. I will not argue Renderosity's decision. As a privately owned site, the administrators have the right to decide what is permitted and what is not (as long as it does not violate state and Federal law). And if the reasons I've been told in confidence are correct, it does make sense. I am, however, saddened that members have been given "marks" against their permanent records after the site owners allowed the "concerned" items to remain for months, if not years. Especially when there's been a "screening" process in place since April 2003. Personally, I do not think that is fair, but again I will not debate the administrators' decisions. If requested, I will remove the "DW" tributes from my gallery should the administrators deem them no longer acceptable. Again, based upon privilaged information, that day will most likely come. Sincerely, Bill P.S. I will post this same message within the threads where I've discussed my "Doctor Who" items at length. That way, members expecting to find my models and morphs will not be confused.

I can't say that I am a big DW fan....but thanks for the freebies. In my book, all freestuff producers deserve more thanks than they ever seem to get.

Also......I will say that your handling of this situation impresses me as an example of "the right way to do it".

Thanks again.

I agree...sadly I waited too long to download these but I wish the rest of the freebie creators had the grace and willingness to use this gentle and reserved tone. I know that they are all incredibly talented and kind individuals, otherwise they wouldn't do what they do! My thanks to all of you who create and give and give and give to an audience who so seldom remembers to say thanks.

Ditto, to all the above. And for those wonderful/hard working freebie artists, if and when you go, please let us know where you are going :)

"The right way to do it" and "gentle and reserved tone"... If either of you had seen how I responded towards my insurance agent earlier today, you would not be using those kind sentiments. Hoo boy! But that's neither here nor there. I'm considering Sixus1's Poserfreebies site, but I won't be able to link my Davros face "pose" since it requires both "Boris" and "Michael 1/2". The console and the police box are stand-alone items, so they should not present any problems. I've already been "invited" by a person associated with the site. VanishingPoint would also be a logical site with its myriad of "homage" items. They already have a police box, but then again, they have more than one edition of the "Aliens" dropship and pulse rifle. Rest assured, as I stated in my initial post, I'll let you know when and where they've been relocated. Sincerely, Bill

Good luck Bill...ALL freebies are appreciated :) Have a nice evening.

Message edited on: 11/29/2004 20:15

Attached Link: http://www.vanishingpoint.biz

Sorry to hear that you're pulling your stuff, but to be honest, it's probably for the best. This way, you won't get a "warning" on your "member record". Anyway, if you're looking for a place to host your sci-fi or movie or TV items, we can add it to the Free Stuff at Vanishing Point. If you're looking for a site to actually host the items, let me know and I'll see if I can find some space. --John

Thank you, John. I didn't want to impose, but your site seems one of the most logical for my items. I can continue to keep the actual files stored at mzzkiti.com. Just let me know what you need. BTW, Little_Dragon improved the police box by rigging the right side door to swing inwards. He even added a "liner" to hide the "inner" geometry of the model. You can see an example of this functionality in my gallery. Would you be offended if I also displayed my items at Sixus1's freebie site? Sincerely, Bill

JHoagland wrote: "This way, you won't get a "warning" on your 'member record'." Honestly, it's getting like school. Next thing, we'll all get monthly report cards. Mine will say "Could do better". It always did.

Redfern, will you be asked to remove your fan art, or will you just have it pulled and a black mark added to your record? As there still has been no site wide announcment who knows WHAT is going to happen? Come on admins, clue people in on what's happening please.

Attached Link: http://www.gallifreyone.com

Biggles, other members have asked that same question. There are presently so many threads, I'm sure I have missed something somewhere, but at this time, I have no definite answer. I do suspect that situation may come eventually. I may eventually remove my "DW" related images of my own accord so as to avoid such unpleasantries. Fortunately, several of those works already reside at Outpost Gallifrey (see link) within the forum section. It has a fan art section, and encourage participation, Shoot, even the official BBC site has a "slideshow" page titled "TARDIS cam" where one can post their images. The point is, there exist other venues. And thanks, I appreciate your concern. Sincerely, Bill

"Come on admins, clue people in on what's happening please." They are enforcing the terms of service of the site themselves, since the members have not done so as individuals.

With respect ynsaen, that isn't JUST what they're doing. When the TOS has not been enforced it could be argued that the TOS had become modified by usage. To start rigorously enforcing it is quite within the admin's rights, but hardly polite or reasonable to do so without warning. Or was there warning, if so I may have missed it. It seems the admins are being extremely closed mouthed about it. Will this policy be extended to 'fan art' in the galleries? People need a definite Yes or No. Come on admins, clue people in on what's happening please.

You're very welcome Redfern.

With equal respect, Cardinal, it is just what they are doing. If it came out poorly, I apologize. Such is my understanding from following the various posts surrounding this. I am told that an answer was given, of sorts, regarding that, in the Merchant Forum. However, I do not have access there (I violated the TOS myself, you see, and have my own black mark for it), so can't snag it and post it for you (which I would do,even though it would have earned me another black mark and probably a banishment). Based on all of the information that I have, that is precisely what they are doing, and yes, it will apply to the galleries, and yes it already applies to the store (though, to be frank, ya coulda fooled me). As for arguing that the terms of service have changed through usage, it's a weak one. The members agreed to abide by them, it is updated somewhat regularly, and I can think of no effective legal argument that might persuade a judge. The TOS is governed under contract law in the state of TN, and, well, that argument hasn't worked in Tennessee since about 1893. Ultimately, however, it's pretty much up to Spike, who tends to appear to do everything possible to avoid posting in this forum, so getting a public posting in here from him is about as great as a snowball's chance of staying together when tossed in hot oil.

Thank you for the information ynsaen. The point is why do artists and freebe donators have to hear it from you? Why no announcement? What is so wrong with announcing it? Thank you for pointing out that the 'usage' argument is a weak one. I agree with you. Legally the site owners/administrators are totally in the right. Not very polite though is it?

Honestly, it's getting like school. Next thing, we'll all get monthly report cards. And not only do these warnings get put on your permanent record, but you have to have it signed by my your parents! :) Anyway, back to the subject: I'll be adjusting the Free Stuff page at VP so it's easier for people to submit their items. For now, though, send me the following information: Name of Item Location (either zip file or page that the file is on) Location of thumbnail image. Brief description And, no, I wouldn't be offended if you posted items at other sites. :) --John

I have already removed my fan art and am in the process of revising it. When it's back, it will be in the fantasy gallery and the main character, being the most recognizable as Se from the Hy P****r series, will be wearing pdxjim's burka. :: I knew I'd find a use for that someday. Speaking of enforcing TOS, isn't bondage gear a no-no? Please check today's freebies.

'Rosity is about as consistent as Warren Sapp is at the moment.

Who's Warren Sapp?

He's a member of the Oakland Raiders defence. Playing a bit erratically at the moment. I picked an American as a lot of the people on 'Rosity are Americans. My son is a Raiders fan.

Dear all, I am posting this in all the threads concerning freestuff which are ongoing because I am concerned that people are missing information which has been given. First of all, the policy here has not changed in any way. We have always had a strict policy on copyright and trademarked items. However, up until very recently there has not been a person dedicated to freestuff. There now is (me) and I have been working through freestuff in order to clean up all the old dead links and apply the policy where necessary. This does mean that some items which have been in freestuff for a long time are now being questioned. Understandably this is a surprise to the creator in some cases. Where possible, I would like to work with the creators in order to re-release the item into freestuff in an acceptable fashion if possible. In order to achieve this I am taking advice from JenyK (Renderosity's Copyright agent) where necessary. In some cases we have been able to advice the creator to re-package or re-name the item and we have been able to rerelease it. However in other cases the item has been an exact replica of something which is trademarked, or had other problems which have made this impossible, or sometimes the creator has just not wanted to do this, and those items have been removed. Secondly, please remember that Renderosity doesnt host these files and so to say "the item was deleted" is not strictly true - we've deleted a link to the item. You might feel that's playing with words, but it's important to note that the item still exists whether we link to it or not. We are not saying that the creator should not offer the item, just that we don't wish to link to it due to our concerns. The decision to keep or remove or amend an item can only be the creator's, not ours. We are not making any moral judgements here, we are simply applying our TOS. Regarding warnings. I will say again that any member who feels that they received a warning which is unfair, is encouraged to contact Spike directly for a review. If Spike feels the warning is unfair, he will remove it. If any member is concerned or unsure if their articles may be "removed" (ie the link deleted) due to trademark/copyright issues, please contact me or any other member of staff by IM and we will review the item. We can't promise an instant response but we will take a look and let you know, and if there is a way of repackaging the item or amending it then we will work with you. And lastly, I would like to let everyone know that we have listened to the feedback you're giving us in these threads. Believe it or not, none of us want to feel like the bad guys or go around upsetting members, and we definitely don't want to discourage members from creating freestuff, as long as it is within the TOS. If any member feels that my communication with them has been rude then I apologise that you feel that way as it was certainly not the intention. If you do IM me regarding these issues then please remember I work full time and have a family so you may not get an instant reply :-) Karen

Biggles, you had asked in post # 10 whether I'd withdraw my fan "tributes" of my own accord or wait until RR requests it. I have decided to do so of my own accord. No, I was not angry when I did so. In fact, I found myself quite calm, as strange as that may seem. I removed only the "Doctor Who" images and the silly LiS/ST cross-over featuring B9 and Spock. The other images remain. I even saved my descriptions and viewer comments so that I may read them again occasionally. If administrators and moderators have concerns about fan art in the galleries, I can accept that. Though I find it very ironic that Renderosity provides a gallery category titled "Film/TV". Of course, to rationalize their actions, Renderosity could claim that section was really meant for images of televisions, film cannisters, projector spools, etc. ;-) Sincerely, Bill

Thanks Bill, Mind you, better be careful that the TV's aren't a proprietry brand or the film canisters have labels on them lol. Sincerely, Simon

And I am still just as confused as ever. If this has always been part of the TOS, then why did R'osity create a gallery category for film/tv art in the first place? That's like a place saying "we refuse to carry Product X ; by the way, here's a nice place to display your favorite images using Product X." (Example: all trade in tobacco products is banned, and it always has been, but we do have a lovely smoking room, have always had one in fact, and you're very welcome to make use of it.)

Am I the only one around here who finds that just a wee bit schizophrenic? No offense to anybody, especially people who suffer from that illness; I just want to understand the rules so I don't do anything else that might be wrong.

Message edited on: 12/01/2004 08:58

Attached Link: http://www.vanishingpoint.biz/freestuff.asp

All three of the "Doctor Who" items I removed from Renderosity can now be found at the link provided. Let us be thankful of JHoagland's generosity for offering the VanishingPoint link portal! Sincerely, Bill