I've actually "boycotted" the Poser galleries entirely, not just the top 20, for a while now. I realize I'm probably missing out on some great work in there, but that's the way it goes. I like to visit the 3dsMax, Bryce, Vue and Maya galleries once in a while. I've made a personal decision long ago not to post any of my work here as well, but that has nothing to do with the Top 20 thing. I do enjoy the forums though! Some interesting conversation and information passes through now and again. :-)

How about 1 VOTE per person per week, this way you would actually have to choose which "Friend" you vote for to make the Mixed Medium Postwork (Poser) HOT 20

Not me. I don't even know where the Hot 20 is!

As far as I can recall, I haven't been there either.

I like what I like. Not necessarily what others like.

So, I don't need a "Hot 20". But if someone else wants it, I have no objections to their having fun with it. Message edited on: 12/03/2004 21:26

Sure. But I also have no objections to people who want it changed. Obviously, there are issues, or it wouldn't spawn threads like this every two weeks. If they tried something different, people would have less to gripe about. At least it worked that way with DAZ. People aren't happy with the PC gallery rules, but since DAZ can tell them, "We tried it other ways, and it didn't work," there's little argument about it. And hey, you never know - it could be an actual improvement.

On the other side, if more people voted often for the best pictures, at least the 'cliques' would be ironed out, and you'd be left with 'most popular pics'. Well, 'most popular pics that people will admit to liking'.

"If they tried something different, people would have less to gripe about." Not really, people would just find something new to gripe about. Look at Daz, they tried something different and someone was complaining about something as minimal as a highlight subtle blinking light over the New to Daz part-- carrying on about how it gave them headaches, and if they didn't remove it they were never going to shop there again ect ect and how they would have to scroll really fast just to not see it. You couldn't even notice it till that person pointed it out, and even then it isn't something I notice everytime I go there. There is gonna be drama no matter where ya go, and just because you try something different doesn't mean people will appriciate it.

Of course people are always going to complain. It's human nature. But it won't be the same darn thing every two weeks, and it won't go on for 60 posts!

If you think the Hot 20 is nothing more than just some high school clique with buddies just voting for the sake of voting why continue to look at it? I don't. :-) bonni

I have thought about all of this, and my associates and I have come up with a suggested list of revisions:

1. All members must vote for an image every time they log on.

2. All "votes" shall be assigned randomly to images posted within the voting period.

3. Comments will be assigned randomly as well. Especially the really nasty comments. If you notice someone blasting your image for some reason, don't take it personally, they probably just wrote the comment while looking at the latest NVIATWAS.

4. Any image with a significant number of votes/comments will automatically be removed from the random vote tables, since the randomization process is showing favoritism.

5. Anyone who wishes to contest the random placement of their vote may request a review from Spike (?) who may change that vote to a different random image.

6. Voting for an image you like, for any reason, is now a TOS violation, and will result in a warning on your member record.

7. Anyone who wishes to have a warning removed may request a review from Spike, who may instead choose to assign that warning (randomly) to another member.

Come on, guys, lighten up. :P There's no real reason to be so upset about this. It's just one of those things. I have a friend who received calls from the art director at Sony based on a work she presented. That work never made it to the Hot 20 here. One member was recently contacted by Sci-Fi Channel over another non Hot 20 work.

Anyone who cares about quality art work will be able to generally recognize it, whether it's in the Hot 20 or sitting in the 'Least Commented' section.

So, breathe. Drink a cup of coffee. Smoke something if you're the sort. Save your energy, and wait a few weeks, and I assure you that there will be another opportunity to post a rant in a thread exactly like this one if you feel like it. ;)

I think most people that are upset about the hot20 are not upset because they aren't in it, but rather because they would like the Hot20, comments, and ratings to be useful. So you could, while browsing, choose to view images that are actually excellent, and be able to scan the Hot20 for the best images. There are thousands of pictures on this site, and you litterally have to pick through each one, cause thumbnails often aren't much help, and the ratings sure as hell aren't, because I think almost every image on here is "Excellent". Judging by the Hot20 there are only a handful of people on this site that are capable of creating a perfect, wonderful Hot 20 type image. And I'm pretty sure that most people already know who they are and how to find them. It'd just be nice to see some of the others showcased.

I'm not argueing, that, GC. My question is whether or not there's a real workable fix for it that's fair? If they listed by favorite artists (i.e. artists that were on other people's favorites list) would that be a decent solution? Would it be any less prone to abuse? I mean, it's easy to complain about a problem with the Hot 20, but complaining won't fix it, unfortunately.

I think it was a great suggestion to limit the amount of votes, we'd have to be just a bit more selective. So then if some guy were to post 4 pictures in a week, you might rather pick the one you actually think is best, to vote on.

I think it's an idea worth trying. They already allow only one vote per member for contests.

Of course, you still have people getting all their family and friends to sign up and vote for them, and even begging for votes from total strangers in chat rooms. But I think that's because there's money involved in the contests. You don't see that kind of thing with the prize-less challenges.

randym77 - and don't forget multiple R'osity accounts ;> seriously though, there are still ways this process could be tweaked for better results... thinking of what's been suggested before I don't know that limiting the votes would help as ppl could just keep creating accounts if they were so (lame) inclined. Adding a checkbox to images to indicate if constructive crits are welcomed, if the artists wish TECHNICAL advice, and something for the faint-of-heart like "nice comments only". Allowing an artist only ONE spot in the Hot 20 and the spot should open up to a featured gallery image page that shows all their works that currently have votes (so even if the popularity contest continues, at least only one spot is taken up). Adjusting the "Most viewed" and "Most commented" categories so you can search by timeframes of: "this week" "this month" "this year" and "all-time" Then if you comment on an artists and you get IM'd rudely or something else, go to the mods and tell them what the image was labelled as "constructive crits" or "technical" and then the artist would be reminded of what checking thsoe boxes truly means and I also think that, perhaps, ppl would be less likely to comment on the ones who only want praise. Change the way we label our art. Allow ppl to select Beginner/Hobbyist as well as Horror or Sci-Fi or whatever for their works. Start enforcing the nudity and/or violence checkboxes since so many artists can't seem to be bothered to do it. That way all the ppl looking for NVITWAS might more easily find it. Allow all the voting ppl want, but randomize the ones that will actually count OR do the jury duty type thing per gallery. Or just remove the ability to vote and just count on views and on Mod's picks and featured artist views. cara

It isn't just the begging... it is the bribing, the threatening, the intimidation... all because of turf battles and cliques. Some of the comments don't mean much if you just dip in, but if you are forced to read them, the picture they present isn't a pretty one. This is more than just being upset over an honest comment. This is a war with major combatants and supporters, and they are all very familiar with the territory and the rules they have made for the game. If I wanted to battle over turf, it most certainly wouldn't be over a spot in the HOT 20, much less all of them... but then I don't need customers or flatterers so damned desperately that my rank in a popularity club seals my fate. Carolly

In my opinion, getting voted into the Hot 20 is generally not a reflection of how good an artist you are, but how many people you've made "friends" with here. There ARE some exceptions to this, and some have gotten in there for amazing work, but they are few and far between.

"it is the bribing, the threatening, the intimidation" are you serious??? that's nuts... what have we got, the R'osity mafia? cara

Carolly - very very interesting. About like I thought, but even worse.... prixat - LOL! :] Fish

Hehehehe I love those sock puppets. 8-)

randym77 hit on the problem when he talks of multiple accounts. I think this happens more than getting your friends and family to vote for you.

but ppl who make lots of multiple accounts really have too much time on their hands I'd wager... cara

Ohmegosh, and here I was under the impression that all those people that gave those lovely, sweet comments to those folks in the hot 20 and voted for them to be there were actually being serious and thinking with they'rer love of art that they may happen to enjoy or adore! Now reading this, I am understanding that most of those great wow works of art are not so great at all but just friends and clones gracing each other and themselves to pretend they are great and make it all look like wow material so they can feel wonderful and look really important. Go figure? Just when I was about to start my own gallery I find out that I better get lots of friends and lots of hotmail accounts or no one may ever notice me or say wow anyways, no matter what I create or do. So what's the point displaying anything then? Why even bother. If you can't be the best because the best will always be those there now with the forums mostest, then I don't want to play. I have to say though, what some are doing is a lot like the queen in sleeping beauty did with that mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the greatest of em all..

"So what's the point displaying anything then? Why even bother" It depends on what you want out of this. If you want to share what you create, be aware that you might get 2 views or 200 views, you might get a lot of smoke blown up your ass by ppl trying to get you to vote for them or you might connect with some like-minded ppl or both... cara

Fishnose, I'd look at the Most Viewed, if I was able to control the time frame. Currently the Most Viewed is the 100 most viewed images. If I could select a time period for most viewed --say the past 15 days, it would actually operate like the Hot 20 used to work. To the rest, People can B & G all they want. The 'Rosity admins are not going to listen and they are not going to change the Hot 20. Because if they were listening, they would have changed it already.

I dunno. IME, the most viewed is always the pinups. The cheesecake pics get tons of hits, but not necessarily any comments.

good point cara

"what have we got, the R'osity mafia?" I'm checking all my posts to make sure I showed the proper respect. If there are people you have not heard from for a while, They may be buried in a server somewhere, propping up Information Superhighway!