I gave away a freebie of a wizards hat for the holiday. So now I have cleaned it up and did a much better mapping and included over 10 morphs to get you started. So I decided to maybe jump on the money band wagon and make a version to sell on either BBay or DAZ/Zygote. As you can see from the picture, it can be very versitile. I can add more morphs, but 10 should be enough. Some morphs included are: bend front, bend back, bend sides, Tall and short, crooked, back, and a feeble attempt at a smaller brim (use with caution ;-)). It is also separated into 4 parts: Hat, brim, band and knot. Which alows you to hide any piece with the transparency sliders. It also doubles quite well as a Witches hat. So let me hear any feed back on if I should sell this item. BTW I plan to sell it dirt cheap, just enough to get a little profit. James

James I won't be among the ones to blame you if you jump on the money wagon! :o) Your work has always been exquisite and attentioned to the detail..that's why I believe that you should start out selling items with something a lot more complex and complete - that will show off your creative potential 100%, than just a morphable hat prop..just my honest two pence...

I say go for it... Everyone is entitled to be paid for their hard work... Goes without saying we love the 'free' stuff but understand if you decide to take the commercial path.

Attached Link: http://www.jacksart.com

Why do you think you even have to ask? What you do is your business, not mine. However, I think you may enjoy greater sales if your hat was more of a general purpose item. (eg. a fashion accessory for Victoria that could be morphed into a few different styles via a resizable crown and brim. Perhaps the latter could be bendable also.) Renapd has a point about making more complex models. However, there are probably not enough basic items available and these are the very things that lend the finishing touch to a scene. Good luck.

This just confirms my feeling that this forum is sliding deeper and deeper into commercialism. And it maybe to late for it to stop. I'm an amateur/hobbiest that means I do this stuff for fun. Every corner I turn on this forum now has a for sale sign up. And it's becoming a bit over powering.

Hi Tribe, While I can certainly sympathize with your feelings, if it were not for commercialism we would have no Poser, no computers on which to run it, no... The truth is that commerce has made the world a much easier and enjoyable place for many of us. Today I live a life that queens and kings could only dream about just a couple of 100 years ago. Commerce has given me a relatively inexpensive toy that entire research institutes would have killed for only 20 years ago. It is not love that makes the world go round, it is commerce. I think you will find that the number of free offerings on this site far outnumber the ones for sale. Lastly, just because something is for sale does not mean you have to buy it.

Jval..I think you misunderstood Tribe's statement and I fully agree and sympathize with him! Yes..we had all bought the Poser software and Zygote was always around for the ones who could afford the models..but things were a lot different about a year and a half ago! I was here..I know first hand! And believe it or not..those were not the days of just sharing but the days of mutual respect and talent acknowledgement among the users..the days that when you contributed a freebie you were so happy just because you could contribute something new of your own to the endless list..I think that's what Tribe talks about and am I missing myself those beautiful innocent days!...

I voiced some these same concerns when the store first opened, however I too went over to the 'dark side'. My problem is with the artists in THIS store who don't put anything in the freestuff section or don't participate in the forums. Next time you are in the free stuff section search on the names of some the top selling artists and you will see what I mean. This site was built do mostly to the freestuff sections and the forums. There would not be a store here without these earlier contributions. You want to make a little money to pay web hosting fees, (like I do), fine but also put some stuff in the freestuff section and participate in the forums. I think if you sell in this store it is your duty to help keep the site going via freestuff and forums. Remember no site, no store.

I don't mind paying for models if it's something I really want. Many of the items I see at the various stores really do belong in the FreeStuff IMO. -JH.

No Renapd, I understood that. I started using microcomputers before Apple or IBM got into the business. Back then, the only software you had was either free from other hobbyists or you wrote it yourself. Nobody was selling built computers so you did it yourself. And I don't mean you plugged a pile of boards together into a cabinet. You soldered every resistor, every chip, every capacitor onto the pc boards. If you didn't understand something you figured it out yourself because there were no books, no web, no computer courses and end-user support had not even been concieved yet. In a city of over a million people there were maybe 50 like minded hobbysists. It was a superb graphic achievment if you managed to get something to bounce across the screen. My first computer had a horrible ascii only monitor, cassette tape storage because floppy drives were stratospheric in cost and a whopping 16k (yes, k) of ram. In Canadian dollars (and allowing for inflation) this thing cost me about $16,000-$20,000 and was considerably larger than a very big microwave oven. Then commercialism entered the picture. Today I use a 5 lb notebook with a large truecolour active matrix screen. It has a 20 gig hard disk, 56k modem (as opposed to 300 baud), dvd, 192 megs ram, cd burner, graphic tablet, photo quality printer, scanner and an accompanying digital camera that's pretty damned good. I can sit in the cockpit of my sailboat and communicate with other digital artists in Singapore, Turkey, Russia, England and more. Gallery displays across the world are only a mouse click away. All this for less than $6,000 Cdn. Comparing the software I now use to what I started with is like comparing a caveman's world to your wildest high tech science fiction fantasy. So when somebody asks me if I miss "the good old days" what can I possibly answer but "No"? My experience in most things is that the good old days never were. It remains true that as I stroll through the on-line Poser world I still find far more information and models that are free than those that cost. As I said, I sympathize with Tribe's sentiment. But increased commerce leads to increased choices. I like choices. jschoen offered a pretty good hat for free and is thinking of offering a somewhat better alternative as well for apparently very few dollars. Why would this be a bad thing? I was also here and elsewhere a year and a half ago and more. Yes, there are more items for sale. But there are a lot more free items than there used to be too, and frequently of better quality than previously. I am content to share my world with both sides. - Jack Valero

well, well, well - maybe I should say 2 or 3 words to that: Why not making money with your hobby - at least I think this is just normal ... .If you spent many many hours in front of your computer (believe me I know of what I'm speaking ...) - why don't get some money for this back. But their are some things I really hate: 1. Never getting up something for free - you are new and you are directly selling what you do ... 2. Copying models and sell them ... (either directly or in a modified form) 3. Whining this item is only available if you buy it ... you (the one who is whining) could make it on your own if you have the skill and/or the time ... but you can save some time if you buy it ... at least it is some of the sayings: time is cash - time is money --> if you don't accept this - you must go one with collecting free props ... None of the 3 things fits to you jschoen - so go on selling ... :o)

Your work is of top quality and there is no reason why you should not sell. 3D modelling apps and training is very costly and hard to keep up with. There are many that can afford to give everything away and that is wonderful, but some of us have to work hard to be able to do this stuff, I beleive there is nothing wrong with making a small profit. Another note, most of the freesstuff is "for personal use only", the items you purchase have no restrictions on the art you create with them.

Thanks so much for all the feedback. I don't think any of it is bad. As a matter of fact, all of it is good. I have struggled with the whole idea of the store for awhile now. And this certainly gives me a good tone to what as I thought the forum thinks. The reason I asked, is that I agree with a lot of the sentiments here that a lot more attention here has gone the way of commercialism. But as always, the die-hards and regular members still keep this forum alive and well with plenty of FREE stuff also. I do agree that if you plan to SELL something, that you should also be an avid follower and contributor of the forum. Whether it be helpful hints, good constructive criticism, or a few freebies thrown our way. This way to me is always the best advertising and first step towards trying to sell something to this community. As always I will continue to contribute to this, and other forums as I have always. By inspiring and helping where I can, and of course the occasional freebie. So Tribe, for you hobbyists, I have not forsaken you. For you are the backbone of many forums. And as for a more complex item, well that's a matter of taste and opinion. The hat is (trust me ;-)) of the highest quality, and is in my opinion a much needed item for a lot of fantasy renders. BUT, I agree, that the public demands more. giggle So I will, if I even decide to sell, will combine this with several items of the wizard genre. Such as My "Gandalf-like" morph for the P4 Male (including the texture map! And maybe one for Michael), a wizard staff, a lantern, and some other items. I'd like to get an opinion on this too. But this would increase the price (still dirt cheap though). I'm so happy at the outcome of this thread. Thanks so much to ALL who took their time to answer. Sorry this message is so long, but it is something I needed to know. I look forward to contributing continually to this and all the other forums. James PS: The very best to all for the New Year!

I wrestled with this decision too and it was really hard for me to decide to sell that first item so I know what you mean, but I also buy what I consider the quality stuff that I will find useful in my art I think nothing less of anyone that decides to sell in the store, in any of the stores. I do agree with 3dwizard about sellers also contributing to the site, everytime I put something in the store I made a promise to myself Id put something in free stuff of quality, and I also have put up several free items in between my store items not related to my sales. This site sells because the rest of the site is well done and very popular so although we cant participate in every aspect of the site I do think its nice when artists who sell thier stuff are also a regular participant in the community, and I myself am much likely to buy from that person too. Just my 2 cents I wish you luck with the hat it looks terrific.

I think It's worth buying. So I don't see anything wrong with you selling it. As a matter of fact I will buy it when It is up in the store. :) I have an idea for it.

Ok, here's my thoughts. Yes, freestuff is great. I couldn't have learned as much as I have without the aid of the items in freestuff. BUT (and this but is almost as big as the one I sit on g) since my primary use for the programs is to create images to be used as backgrounds and game screens, I must be able to use my models commercially. Most of the freestuff doesn't allow this, some of it doesn't even have contact info so that I can ask permission. The items for sale, however, come with a built in permission to use them in commercial renders. And THAT, my friends, makes all the difference for me. I LIKE being able to purchase an item (model, texture, etc) and not have to worry about asking permission to use it commercially somewhere down the road. Just my two cents. Kate P.S. I have been a hobbyist crafter all my life - knitting, crochet, needlepoint, cross-stitch, embroidery, etc, and nobody has EVER given me a hard time about selling my goods through consignment shops or at flea markets/swap meets. I don't see why anyone should give someone here a hard time either. And if an artist creates a new type of paintbrush, should it be given away free to other artists or sold? I would think that's up to the inventor, no?

JVAL..you assume too much! Just because you're an old PCuser you assume others are not like you??? Has it ever occured to you that Poser is not just for US residents you know...it's worldwide! and the way dollar keeps climbing up in other continents very few can afford the prices around! Yet they have the very same rights like everybody else..that's what I hate and I'll always fight against..having privileged and non privileged users around! Poser is for fun and fun can't be marked with ethnicity! I think my actions & sharing (not just words) on how I stand to this subject - and always will - speak for themselves! Period!

and oh..james..sorry for turning your post into a personal fighting arena..it's just one of the topics that always brings in light my mediteranean temper! :o)

You know, I think the idea of paying for things is not bad, but the freeby stuff is important also. When I started doing these poser things I was struggling with the program and the idea of paying more money for things that would be outdated if the program updates came along to change the formats was unrealistic. Poser needs a commercial base to survive, I think it is a good thing that we have such talent making things available. The most immediate difference I think that "should" be important on the commerical product is the use in other money making projects. With the freeby stuff I have had the luxury of learning how to improve my images. I feel that the hard work and talent should be compensated. With that said, I also hope that with the various upgrades that might come down the pike that the poser people in charge of such things allow for the increased investment in such things as texture maps, objects and props. This time period where poser has remained relatively stable without major changes has given rise to this wonderful "commercialism". As with anything one likes to do, the ability to earn a little more money to dump back into the expense of moving forward is a good thing. These are not large companies that gobble up money and disappear, they are our fellow poser users who individually support this program. Commercialism will simply increase the ability of the community to help shape this program for the future users. I appreciate that the items in the store for the most part remain affordable.

Renapd, I'm not quite sure what it is that I am assuming. I made clear that I am in Canada, not the U.S. After shipping, duties, taxes, etc I pay about double the U.S. price. Nor did I suggest that I am the only old PC user. I was illustrating that the pace of commerce has resulted in cheaper products and greater variety while also making things easier to use. Surely you cannot argue that this has not made the personal computing experience available to more people rather than fewer. It is still too expensive for too many but is definitely an improvement. I seem to have touched a nerve with you. Although you could not possibly be aware of it, I am the child of a white European mother and a black South American Indian father. I grew up in the slums so I certainly do not speak as some "mystical" over privileged individual. I fail to see even a hint of ethnicity in my previous postings. If you reread those posts I suspect you will see that you have read what you wanted to read, not what I said. It would be wonderful indeed if everyone was equally privileged with the same opportunities. But we are not. Some of us are stronger or smarter or more beautiful or just richer than others. It has always been thus and is not likely to change in the foreseeable future. While we play with our computers children across the world die of hunger so please do not lecture me about equality and the privileged class. If good fortune is a crime we are both guilty. You may wish to indulge in a "personal fighting arena" but I will not play that game. For the third time I will repeat my sympathies. But sympathy is not always agreement and true privilege allows for differing views. I do not say any of this in anger and hope you will not read it that way. Although I do not use your modeling efforts I respect both the skill and generosity that accompany them. But just as the latter is the result of your personal choice, I believe that we must allow others their own choices. If James decides to sell his work I wish him well. ps. I just realized that my mention of a sailboat may have triggered thoughts of the idle rich. Actually, my wife and I live on it as we could not otherwise afford one. By North American standards we are not at all wealthy- mostly because we chose a very modest retirement in our 40's in preference to the rat race. Computers and books are about our only indulgences and we do without such common place amenities as automobile or television. In fact, during the winter months we do without onboard toilet facilities or running water. Not too many people would consider this a privileged life style but it is our choice and we are glad of it. Lately I have started selling both my artistic and computer skills. But because our life style is so inexpensive we have been donating about half the income to charities that feed the hungry and assist education. - Jack Valero

Ok, Ok, not quaraling here! Please go to your corners and take a deep breath. I know I opened a can of worms, but please keep this to a dull roar. ;-) I know things have to be said. James

Attached Link: http://www.minervan.com/

my first message didnt show up, I'm trying it again lol... Personally I believe that there needs to be both a free and a pay area. People that are just learning the ropes need the free stuff to help them out. I cannot express how much I enjoy the free area. When you develop a professional technique that is actually worth buying, then is the time to think about putting some items in the shop. When you use images and models for professional and commercial use, you need the shop to buy high quality work, and the rights to use that work in your commercial projects. sometimes, its cheaper for some of us in other countries (I am in Germany) to actually buy a CD than it is to download a zillion files... did you know that??? My friend in Greece would buy a compilation CD long before she would spend the expensive time downloading VERY SLOWLY all these free characters, morphs, and props... fyi. It wasnt so long ago when my local telephone calls amounted to 200 dollars or so a month. (thank god for flat rate here now - the internet part of the phone bill has gone down to about 50 dollars a month or so... still not cheap but a lot better than it WAS...)A CD, its price is often not so bad if you think of what it can cost to download... What I would like though is more shops to think about foreign-friendly e-commerce solutions. Some shops cause unnecessary hardships with international orders, simply because their payment methods are badly planned (do not accept international credit cards, addresses, etc). In free stuff, most of the items are for personal use only. Indeed much of it is 'pay stuff' if you decide to actually make money with it. But its there as a gift of generosity for those that need the free stuff to experiment and learn with. I am a strong supporter of both areas and believe we should do our upmost to have good work in both the pay and free areas. I am relatively new to poser, after coming back to it from a few years ago. I have every intention to distribute some of my work for free to get some feedback on my work. But, I have every intention to sell photorealistic textures I'm currently creating for poser and other programs. I have 20 years of experience painting and drawing the human figure, and I will put that experience to good use for fun and profit in poser as well. I already charge people for webdesign and portraits, I will eventually charge for some poser things too! take care, bijou

Bijou, Thank you so very much for that insight. I really did not know the cost of international web browsing. Very informative. On that note , I can't stress enough to all who do put up free items, to compress them as much as possible. Things like a large BMP should be avoided where a smaller jpeg will do. But that's a whole different thread, so let's NOT start it here giggle Again thanks, because sometimes we here in the USA forget that there are other methods and other members from across the seas. ;-) James