We had a thread a while ago about archving digital files and cost and whatnot. Said at the time that I expected the media vendors to begin addressing that just like film vendors had to do back in the beginning of film. I knew the development time for digital was way faster than for film, but I didn't think it would start this soon.

Just read an article on Delkin's eFilm Archival Gold CD-R discs. They released these in the final months of 2004. Wondered why I hadn't seen them, then realized by then I wass ignorning CD-R and was straight DVD-R.

Anyway, today the cost is around $15 for a pack of 10 with sleeved carrying case. Plus they do a walleted 16-pack and spindles of 25 and 100. They use a phthalocyanine dye and gold reflective layer to achieve a claimed 300-year storage life.

Just reading this while eating my Cheerios, so haven't had a chance to look for independent verification of that storage life.

Anyway, its already begun. I'm sure DVD-R's will be next as the archival storage medias evolve.

-=>Donald

I'm still not convinced. They claimed 100 years for CD's, but after a year you might not be able to read them. Even factory made cd's can show faults after a few years. CD-Rot :( So they claim 300 years.. hmm riiiight is my first reaction. Ofcourse they have ways to compress the time but didn't they do that for the original CD also? For me the best way is double storage. 1) my own PC 2) my server. Show me a 300 year old DVD and I'll switch :)

i'm not convinced either. Kemal and i have our images backed up on 2 PCs and one laptop. We're also getting ready to buy some webspace ($6 a month) and back them up there. Then we're gonna buy some kind of external device that will simply do nothing by hold our images. it holds a helluva a lot, but that's all i know. I think then, we'll just back up our images on one PC but i'm not sure. no way do i trust CDs. i've seen where they can become unreadable. and so many of them have been damaged straight from the factory as 3DGuy says! oh man, kemal and i have had some BAD experiences with CDs! i thought DVD-Rs already ARE being used as a storage media? Well, i believe that's what Kemal and I use when we're on vacation. we download our images onto laptop and then back them up on DVD-R if i recall correctly. and those suckers are expensive!

Just remember that magnetic media (harddrives and tape) are even more susceptible to errors than CDs/DVDs. They damage more easily due to temperature and magnetic fields. And my very favorite, there is the possibility that cosmic particles can actually damage data on a drive (they come through, disrupting the magnetic field of the media). Great, now I have to enclose my computer in a lead case with magnetic containment unit surrounding it. :) Best way is multiple storage media and proper storage practice. I always burn at least 2 copies of everything and keep them in 2 places. Best to keep CDs/DVDs in a nice somewhat controlled climate (preferrably low humidity and medium temperature - ie. room temp). @sheila - I meant that an archival grade DVD-R is probably the next thing.

One of these days, after I retire, and learn how to write, one of my projects is to write a science fiction story. The only way to assure archving digital files is to launch them on the Universal Internet. Imagine store-and-forward relays, repeating the learned lessions of civilizations across millions of light years... Only trick is, must discover the modulation and encoding format before creating the Higgs Boson artificially in the lab, and collapsing this region of space time. Definitely going to have to check out these Delkin's eFilm Archival Gold CD-R discs. Already what I stored during the 90's is obsolete. Can still read it, but so severely compressed that it's no longer satisfying. Was painful, and lost detail, converting from my old Macintosh MacDraw formats to Windows. Paper! Paper is good!

oh man, donald...don't tell me stuff like that! cosmic particles???? shit! we got problems then! you should see the dust on our computer! sigh great idea to burn at least 2 copies of everything AND in two places. see what bothers me is our place is soooo high in humidity. ok, so we enclose our computers, burn 2 copies of everything. backup on 2 PCs and a lap top, back up on an external storage device AND then back everything up & put on the web!!! jeesh, what we gotta go through!!!! that's all kemal's department though. computer stuff and lightbulbs. i hate changin' 'em! LOL! oh, thanks for clarifying donald. ooopsy! i didn't read close enough the first time! my bad! :(

definitely agree with you about the Paper, Misha!!!! kemal got me this electronic organizer one year for my birthday. i was verrrry leery of it. i put all my addresses, phone numbers, etc. in it and threw away my notes. HUGE mistake! one day the battery went dead, and guess what? i lost EVERYTHING! i was really mad! so the book i'm writing...you can bet i've got my paper version. of course, if there's a fire in the apartment...LOL!!! ok...gonna go put a copy in our safe deposit box tomorrow!!!! :) don't wait to retire to write!!!!! you wanna write sci fi??? you got some GREAT material all around you!!! Just start at the Mothership!!!! :) cynlee and tedz can help you out a LOT in the sci-fi dept!!!!!

300 yrs? will i care by then? :] lol! ooooh, i need to catch up on my b-up! & send them into orbit for safe storage...

Global warming will have flooded the land-masses by then so better make sure you have some form of bouyant storage too :)

GRRRR!!!! What about when you don't get the chance to archive the buggers?!? When one of our company vehicles (70+ cars) has an accident, I'm the gopher who takes the pictures of the damage for the insurance claims. So, after the bout of snow this morning and the anticipated shunt I toddles myself down to the garage and takes some pics. Normally I just upload them at home and print them at work, but today we decided to cut the timescale and bought a card reader. My 128mb card at the moment had some un-loaded pictures of my Mini and the work in progress. Sets the card reader up, puts the card in - Card Not Readable error. Puts it in camera.... Card Not Formatted. AAAAAAAARGH!!! Formats card. Goes down, more pics. Comes back. Decides not to hot-swap the card into the reader this time. Pics there, last one claims not in the right format. Puts it back in the camera to view it. Camera has none of it and locks all the pictures. Format card. Third time lucky. Goes back out, more pics, same error as at first, card has to be re-formatted. Last set of pics, I decide to upload at home. Tomorrow the reader is going back. Trouble is, it's gouged 2 lines into the back of my 128 mb card. Just viewed them, and one of the pics is corrupt...... Boy am I gonna have fun in the shop tomorrow. Prepare for evidence photo's of bloodied hands after I murder someone.... (",)

What are Cherrios Donald? scratches head

uh, Tedz, it's cereal brand here in the States....made from roadkill and truffles or something like that.....right Donald? I'm just jealous that Donald can multi-task, eat Cherios and read at the same time. So many smart talented people here....

Thanks for the enlightment Jack....in New Zealand it is a Cocktail Sausage...(also made from Road Kill)...and People dunk them in Tomato Sauce (Ketchup/Catsup/Whatsup)...they are Related to Savaloys...another Red Sausage.

Here is what they say.... From Delkin: The World's Most Reliable CD. Delkin, manufacturer of quality eFilm memory cards and other innovative products, recently introduced the eFilm Archival Gold 300-Year CD-R. eFilm Archival Gold CD-Rs incorporate patented Phthalocyanine (thalo-sy-a-neen) dye and a 24k gold reflective layer in every CD-R. The innovative materials found in eFilm Archival Gold CD-Rs make them one of the most reliable storage medium available. Typically CD-Rs are known to deteriorate quickly due to ultra violet light, heat, and humidity. Using an accelerated aging process to test the longevity of CD-R media, eFilm Archival Gold CD-Rs have been shown to safely store your images for more than 300 years. Consumers are now taking more pictures than ever with digital cameras, explains Martin Wood, CEO of Delkin Devices, Inc. Our research has indicated that the number one reason consumers take digital images is to preserve their precious memories. eFilm Archival Gold CD-Rs ensure that your precious memories are safe for years to come. The patented Phthalocyanine dye is the most critical component of the CD-R because it is where your data is stored. Your CD burner creates pits in the dye layer when it burns a CD-R and your digital information is stored in these pits. The Phthalocyanine dye reacts quicker to the writing laser than dyes found in most CD-Rs on the market, thus making sharper pit edges and making your CD-R easier to read by CD drives. Compared to Cyanine and Azo dyes found in the majority of CD-Rs on the market, Phthalocyanine dye lasts significantly longer when subjected to the harmful effects of UV light, heat, and humidity. Gold is one of the most inert elements on earth and Delkin incorporates 20 of 24k gold into every eFilm Archival Gold disc. Golds inert characteristics prevent oxidation, a common cause of failure to most CD-Rs. Along with the Phthalocyanine dye and gold reflective layer, eFilm Archival Gold CD-Rs provide the most extreme protection for your digital images from environmental degradation. Very interesting to see if this is true. I would have to wait out for the DVD version though. :> TMG

All the testing of these things is somewhat artificial. And it sometimes doesn't catch the external effects. Some CD-rot came from materials used in the packing, not from the CD. It's always worth burning a CD at a bit less than the maximum speed of either the writer or the CD. It makes the dots a bit sharper, because of the time needed for the laser to switch on and off. In the early days, Kodak made a highly-regarded CD-R, and these Delkin CD-R's sound quite similar.