First, let me say that I am in no way trying to tick off or offend anyone with what I'm about to say. Also, need to make sure everyone understands that I am not singling out anyone or any post. I hope that you guys will take this in the spirit in which it is intended.

I had time today to go back through about 150 threads trying to see what I've missed and I've noticed a growing number of threads where someone asks a question that is really a very basic photography question (a couple have been intermediate level). Usually someone with at least basic knowledge answers the question or several people who don't have the knowledge try to figure out how to accomplish whatever was being asked. Some of the answers were right, some where wrong and some were so strange that I knew the answer going in but by the time I finished reading the replies they had me confused. :)

I know there are quite a few people here who love the artistic side of photography and really don't like the technical side. But it is really amazing how much energy is spent here re-inventing the wheel. Don't get me wrong. Experimentation is crucial; especially expermintation outside the box. I think anyone who has seen my work knows that I love to experiment, not just with the camera but with the processing of images. I guess I just don't understand why anyone would conciously take that much time and energy trying to figure out how to do something that someone 100 years ago completely fleshed out.

We've discussed having photographers give a detailed technique tutorial on one of their images so that others can learn. My concern is that many of the people reading it won't have the basic photography skills necessary to understand -why- a photographer chooses a certain method or technique.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you feel you're shaky on the technical side there are dozens of books that teach you basic skills. Most of them today are written in a non-technical, graphic way and would really help you to understand what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong when it comes to your photos.

Whether or not you do that, those of us who do have the knowledge will still be here to answer your questions. I'm just of the opinion that learning those basic skills can do wonders for your images.

-=>Donald

raises glass in a toast Very well said Donald. And I couldn't agree more....... A good photo book should be your best friend if you're just starting out in photography, or even if you're not. Self taught, shelves over flowing with photo books

I remember the first time I read this forum, the first topic I saw was about grain form (3D) and size of a certain film, so I see your point. On the other hand, I learned everything by trying and asking questions (albeit not in this forum). But isn't that what a forum is for? Or are you suggesting that there should be a minimum level here? Maybe there should be a FAQ or something like that explaining the basics, like what is ISO/ASA, what is Apeture, how does a (d)SLR work, what is the difference between compact and SLR etc etc. I've never read a photography book myself, I kinda wing it so to speak. Maybe because there weren't all that many in the local bookstore. Anyhow, I can see your point. Lots of the basic stuff can be answered by just using Google :)

I must admit that this is a problem with many forums, and questions get asked that Google can answer very quickly (usually) Depending of course if you ask it the right question. IMO the Rosity FAQ covers many questions very well, and would be a good starting point for many.

No, I don't think there should be a minimum level here. But it's my opinion that if you want to get the most out of your camera and better prints/images, then a basic understanding of how photography works is essential. For example, someone posts an image and asks what's wrong with it. I say, "Looks to be about a stop underexposed." If you don't know what underexposed means or what a stop is, how much help did you just actually get? And if you understand those terms, but not the relationship of ISO to Shutter Speed to Aperture to Light when dealing with exposure, then what do you do? I guess my point is, you can go and google an answer to a specific question, but in doing so you run the risk of (if you'll excuse the semi-pun) missing out on the whole picture. In the "underexposed" example above, lets say you google and find that you should decrease the shutter speed to increase the exposure. That would work, but to what effect in the image? Whereas, if you read a book or took a class, you'd learn about the full relatioship between shutter speed, aperture, ISO and light (flash/strobe) and what is effected when you increase or decrease any of them (exposure, depth of field, motion blur, grain/noise, contrast, etc). But it's all just a suggestion. -=>Donald

Hmmm.... the Resource Center could be better IMHO..... it's one of those things that has always needed attending to but neither the previous mod (Alpha) before me nor myself ever really had time to update or work on. We could really use some good articles on the basic stuff for those that need it. I always meant to write an article about understanding exposure and how aperture, shutter speed and ISO work in conjunction with each other to produce a good image.... just never had the time or the energy.....

Sorry.... cross posted with Donald..... I was replying to Simon (LP)

Well I think the thing is we got us sort of a "revolving- open door" policy around here! People come and go... then come back again! New people pop in...because they "hear" this is a pretty cool place to hang. The forum has gotten kind of a "rep" and they come here to SHARE and ask questions. (and that is the whole idea behind the forum...isn't it?!?!) I agree that basic terminology and stuff like that could be handled in a FAQ or even one of them, what do ya call'em??...BOOK things! Maybe it's time the Resource Center gets an overhaul and is updated with links to this type of information. (add one for BARNES & NOBLE.COM) (LOL) I for one like the honest (almost realtime) feedback I get here! Posting to the galleries you really don't get that (IMO). Maybe because the galleries are "public" in a sense, it's not the place for in-depth comments. People don't want to "offend" anyone by giving constructive critism/feedback! I feel the very nature of this forum is that it's more close knit and ya kind of get that vibe coming in here! It's JUST the place to ask "WHAT do you REALLY think of THIS shot?" How can I improve this image? WHAT the HELL is a PDA for cryin' out LOUD? Y'know this kind of stuff! I value the time everyone takea out of their day to come here and SHARE a bit of themself and their world! Just my 2.5 cent again! Joe

what the hell is a PDA????
hey! now there's a question i can answer!!
:D that would be me! :D

but seriously with the growing number of people going digital with cameras that can basically operate themselves with instant results at the tips of their media card reader & monitor, learning the basics of photography has taken a backseat imo... we're working backwards... at least with the older 35 mm manual slr one had to learn a little more

& yeah, books, google & the re. center are great sources

now on the upside... the digital age has opened up a whole nother media for so many who are interested!! we get to see into the minds of some amazing artistically inclined ppl with this new way of visual communication & it's techies like you & michelle that we admire & others here who are kind enough to point one in the right direction :]

Attached Link: http://www.algonquincollege.com/edtech/gened/styles.html

Reading books, articles, and "Googling" for information can be great for some people; however, not everyone learns the same. i've read most everything in the resource center 2 or 3 times. and i've read articles. and i've Googled to get information. it's difficult for me to learn that way. I'm sure I'm not alone. I have 2 learning styles: relational/emotional mode & physical mode. Here's a description of both: "Those who prefer the relational/emotional mode of learning probably learn best by working in groups, verbalizing information, and working in relaxed environment." "Those who prefer the physical mode probably learn best by hands-on applications, daily repetitions, taking good notes, allowing time for demonstration and imitation, and allowing free-flowing movement from one task to another." I've attached a link where i got this information if you want to learn more. i'm trying to understand the technical aspects of photography better, and i've found the forum a great place to learn! Thanks guys for always being so helpful and patient...and for making learning so much more fun and interesting than in books!!!!! :)

One of the reasons that I like the forum is that I feel that I can trust the information. I've been to the bookstore a number of times, plonked down my hard-earned cash, only to find that the majority of the book is fluff. Perhaps a list of known good books in the resource center would help (the series by Ansel Adams is excellent, by the way). -Taltos

If I had to suggest only one book, it would probably be "Photography" by London and Upton (they're probably up the 8th or 9th edition by now). This book is probably used by more photography classes than any other and there's a reason. Solid information put together well and is written with the beginner in mind. I'd also recommend after reading it - at least the last 2 as they give better coverage of what "proper" exposure is and more in depth understanding of filters and what they do: - "The Camera", "The Negative" and "The Print" (the excellent 3 book Ansel Adams series that you mention) - "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson (I think it was just updated to include digital cameras) - "Photographer's Guide to Filters" by Lee Frost

I can only refer you to what is written under the banner at the top of this page !

Well I suppose I would be a physical mode learner.... :~) FWIW, the technical aspects can really be confusing for some, I know when I first started taking pictures I just didn't get it..... but I was determined to learn. I went out and bought myself a big bound hard copy edition of "The Complete Kodak Book of Photography" back in 1988...... and I spent hours pouring over the pages.... highlighting things I thought were important, staring at the beautifully printed images. At that point all I had was a point and shoot and was dreaming of the day I could afford to go out and buy my first 35mm slr.... When I did, I sat with my camera in my lap, and the book open and tried to absorb it all.... it was overwhelming to say the least, and for a long time the camera stayed in AUTO mode, but finally I decided I was tired of not having control over my images, I wanted to be the one to decide how my images were going to look, and into Manual Mode it went .... I practiced, and practiced, and over time and many more books later it suddenly clicked one day.... and what was a conscience and difficult effort became second nature... I didn't have to think about it I just knew.... And I don't think that Donalds suggestion to read a book is insulting, or anything else like that, because it's how I learned, yes some of them can be fluff, some of them can be too hard to understand, but I've always found that illustrations, descriptions and object in hand are a great way to learn..... yes we all learn in a different way, and I would also agree with everyone that this place is a wonderful resource for real time learning.... I enjoy helping people here and I know that Donald and a few others do too! But it does make it hard to teach, and to offer advice when the very basic terms or concepts aren't understood by the person asking..... that's not being condecending it's stating a fact. :~) But having a book to refer to doesn't hurt does it? I still go out and buy technical photo books, because after all the learning never stops.... They might be a little more technical now, but that's ok...... And if books aren't you're thing, magazines are great learning resources as well..... Popular Photography, Petersen's Photographic, offer some really great material to the beginner and technically advanced alike..... Ok...... so I've rambled..... :~) Just keep shooting!

I remember when I moved from Research to a more Product-oriented job. A problem came up, and my new boss asked me how I'd handle it. I replied that it was likely a fairly common problem that had been solved many times before, so I thought I'd spend the next two or three hours in the technical library. After he finished reaming me a new butt-hole, he explained his reasoning: yes, the problem was likely a very common one, solved many times before. The PROPER tactic is to talk with my co-workers, and learn what the solution is that we use HERE. There may be other solutions. They may even be better solutions. But they are not OUR solutions. The time I would WASTE in the library looking up other people's solutions, is time when my co-workers cannot find me to quickly answer their questions. [His reasoning, anyway. Thankfully I did not work long for him. Sad thing is, He's gotten a LOT farther along in Corporate America than I have. Only point is, people learn things in different ways.]