hello all, i posted this image yesterday but have since made a few minor changes. thanks to MGTF for helping me make it look a little better. he had suggested that i post here in the forum as the original image about 15 or so deep on the comments before i posted the revised edition. i agree it's only fair to those who commented before the edit to have their opinion one way or the other on the new version. the image goes as follosws; the top is the original, the middle is what MGTF did and the bottom is what i did which i posted as the edit. i personally like the middle version but i had no idea what he was talking about with burning, dodging and so on, he'll be stopping by at some point to give his input. as for what i did it was quite simple, i just magic wanded the main building and adjusted the levels and that's about it. my knowledge of photoshop is quite limited but i'm now striving to learn more and hopefully produce better looking results. thank you all for viewing and your time!!! eb

I prefer ur edit version! The second one is too bright for my taste! There's something else that bugs me here and that's the tower that isn't straight! U know what I mean? But maybe it's on purpose?? Only my 2c anyway!

Ok! I straightened it to show u what I mean? ;) Hope u don't mind!

Maybe the ground is curved you mean under the tower and the thing is straight enough. For me the 2nd picture is better yes it a bit bright but I like seing the search lights. I think it depends on what is more important to you the building only the contrast is so use the third image. But if you are interested in street detail the second picture. Actually I think I like the original image best! I think you want the coarse high contrast picture so I would tend toward the third picture. But I would try to darken the car and street lights. Great pic. Where was this taken? Bsteph

i know the tower wasn't straight. i leveled the camera with the sidewalk i was sitting on not the tower. i left it that way on purpose to keep the street more evenly balanced.

Message edited on: 03/17/2005 15:23

it was taken in Philadelpha PA, Pennypack Circle. yes i do like high contrast but in this case i like the second one also, the tower just looks nicer and evenly shaded. i did the best i could do to try and get that look but after many failed attempts i compomised and went with the high contrast...

Message edited on: 03/17/2005 15:36

I preferr your version, but I think it would be perfect if it were just a tad lighter. MGTF fixed the original a bit, but it was still too light in areas for my tastes. Good work! :)

Oh ok then! ;)

I liked the original but felt that there were areas where improvements could be made, my intention was to give Eric a few pointers regarding my suggestions, in my defence I have to say that I was working with the image uploaded to this site and not with the original image file. I spent about 15 minutes in total burning in extra density to the upper part of the tower using the burn tool on the Photoshop tools panel, I then moved down to the lower part of the building and again burnt in some extra density to the front tower and the tower with the flagpole. Again using the burn tool I selectively worked on the road area to fill in some of the burnt out areas and using a large size burning tool added a little density to the trees and street lights. I moved to the image adjust, shadow & highlight tool and made adjustments there which brought out some more detail in the buildings on the right Using my method of burning in, the top of the tower has retained the density of the original rather than just darkening the whole building. I am aware that mine is not a suitable version for uploading but it was just my rapid attempt to encourage Eric to revisit his image and see what extra detail he could bring out in his image, I am sure you will agree that his revised image is much better than his original so I feel our exchange of private correspondence over this image and the end result has been well worth it, please do not make comparisons between the three versions above as that was not the intention, my idea was to point out that there was much more potential for that image.

If we don't make comparisons what do we do then?? When u post something in the forum is to have other people's advice and opinions about an image! I think by telling him what we like/dislike about this image we're helping him improve since this forum is ALSO for that purpose! (Erm...) There's no judgement here, just opinions of what we each think could be better/different/improved! That's all! ;)

When I wrote about comparisons I did not want you to think I was trying to improve the image myself or for myself, it was in art terms I suppose a sketch of what I felt could make an improvement and done only for the purpose of helping Eric. If you need to make a comparison it really should be between the two versions ( 1 & 3 ) that were actually produced by Eric.

But he posted 3 images! And if he posted urs too, surely it's cos he thinks it's a good improvement on the first one, therefore, it should be included in our comments! Just my 2c anyway! ;)

I am pleased he feels that way and felt my sketch was worthy of posting but that was not my intention, it is Eric's image and he deserves all the credit for improving his image in a very significant way, I like to work away in the background and if I can help anyone I am more than willing to do so.

Eric, i prefer the last one! I know you said you liked the middle version, but i feel the same like Pascale...it's too bright for my tastes. #3 looks fantastic! i luv the high contrast like that! It make your image all the more powerful and exciting! the way you reworked it, you show better detail in the tower, and you keep those wonderful shadows that i love so much! Whatever you did to rework it, well it looks great! You kept its intense look & feel that i luv! Can i ask you a question? Ok, i love the spotlight in the first one. i think that's really cool. But how did you get those additional little "rays" in #3? were they there in your first image but just hidden? Did you do something to bring them out when you reworked it? Oh, BTW, kemal and i are going out again tonight to make nightshots!!! Yipppppeeeee! i can't wait!!!

Art, we crossed...It's very nice of you offer suggestions and to help others!! IMHO, whatever you suggested certainly paid off because Eric's reworked version is definitely shows improvement over the first one he uploaded! (Although i totally loved his first version too!!!!!!!!) That's very kind of you to offer to help others. You're more than welcome to make suggestions on any of my images! okay...gonna go take some more pictures soon!!!! :)

Hehe!! Have fun Sheila!! Can't wait to see the result! :)

If i can ever get kemal to get his butt out of his chair!!! LOL! he just ate and now he's on the heavy side...hard for him to move! i might not be leaving as soon as i'd hoped!!! LOL!

i definitely have to hand it to Art, this exercise has caused me to take a step back and look for different ways of working a scene. to be honest when i posted the original i was a tad disappointed with how the tower looked, it really lacked detail. don't get me wrong, i liked the shot from the start but when i posted i really didn't think there was anything i could do to improve it. i figured garbage in, garbage out. now i see what's possible and i'll not be underestimating photoshop again!! i've gone back over 4 dvd's worth of picture seeing if i had any others with the same sort of problems, the subject looking too over exposed or lacking detail. again photos that i liked but for the reasons above didn't turn out worthy. i did manage to find a couple which will be posted over the next few nights. while they're not by any means perfect they are however improved to the point where i'm happy how they turned out! i posted Art's version because he's the one that inspired the change and if not for the valuable input i'd still be putting minimal time and effort into making enhancements...not being lazy minimal but unaware minimal...know what i mean? HAIL ART...heh heh...sorry boss, couldn't resist!!! thank you all for you kind words, suggestions, tips, advice and opinions! as Pascale said, if not for those things i'd not improve!!! i appreciate it all!!! eb

LOL!!! Tell me about it!! Laurent always fall asleep after eating!! What a pain!! Men have no stamina!!

Message edited on: 03/17/2005 18:23

U're most welcome dear! :)

i'm sitting at arms lenght of the tv as i type but does that stop me from using the remote....hell no!!! it's all about working smarter, not harder...at least that's what i keep telling myself!!!

damn it, that's twice now i forgot...good luck with the night shots Sheila!!! can't wait to see what goodies you bag!!!

Pascale, kemal's not asleep (yet! LOL!). We'll go later tonight!!!! i hope i do good, eric!!! I'm so excited!!!!! :)

Ah!! So at least he doesn't fall asleep!! Man, u're lucky!!

3 for me... there's going to be some difference on brightness from monitor to monitor... this one has more detail in the tower & i can still see the spotlights... well done guys! :]

Eric's original posting had I felt more potential that was on display, my visual suggestions I hoped would encourage Eric to revist his image and number 3 is the result a much improved image. Sometimes we can all benefit from the advice of others, I am no exception, my wife will look over at this screen and make a suggestion regarding the image I am working on and it will be something I had not considered or noticed, sometimes we become too close to our images and writings we do not notice errors or where improvements can be made, a chance comment can provide the stimulation to move hopefully onward and upward.