i have a medium complex scene with one V3, 3 clothed p4-male, the DAZ Barn, some easy objects to fill it and 10 lights. For a dyn-cloth calculation i want to set up an animation of 120 frames. In the animation window i want to copy the complete frame #1 to frame #120... and the animation window needs SEVERAL MINUTES for this easy little task! my system isn't bad at all: 3.1 GHz Intel-processor 2 Gig ram NVidia GForce4 with 64 mb RAM 50 GIG free on swap-disc ... so what the hell is going on here? For me as programmer it is nearly unbelievable that copying some frames in this window could need more time than the moment i need to light my cigarette! And yes... i have collapsed all characters on the left in the window, so that there are not more than about 50*120 little cells to show in the table!

hpdrag,

you sound experienced but can you report if you have ever done pretty much the same thing in 5 and had it go fast?

1. remember there is a fix for memory issues about to be released

2. just to see if it IS that memory problem, exit all the way out of Poser and re-launch and try it.

3. are other movements in the animation pallet normal?

::::: Opera :::::

Message edited on: 04/09/2005 08:37

oh yes, this is a file that i made Poser 5 - not a problem here. The speed is absolutely okay in the animation window of Poser 5. to 2.To the 'memory-fix': here i'm not so hopefully than the most people here. Since P4 Poser has this memory problems; it seems to be an integral part of the Poser-engine; i had hoped that with P6 and the giving-up of the support of the older OS this kernel would be made new from the scratch, but it is more or less the same as it was before. So i only hope that they are able to improve it a little bit as they did with P5. to 3. yes, this was first i tried - no change. Also my first verdict, it could be the new morph-organisation was wrong; with or without this checked in the preference-window didn't make any difference. to 4. no - everything is very slow in the animation pallet, even a selection is a pain. It also doesn't make any difference, if i have OpenGL-mode enabled or not. My guess is, that with each mouse-action in this animation pallet, Poser makes one or even several redraw(s) in the pose-window itself. I'd be curious, if other people have the same problem with more or less complex scenes.

1. you say you are not so hopeful...do you mean 'hopeful' that it will be fixed? If you think this glaring problem will NOT be fixed, then you are saying CL is abandoning their product, because it is nearly useless without. the overal slowness may be due to the general memory mangagement issues. ::::: Opera :::::

I think they can fix the worst follow-ups of this bug, like writing zero-sized or otherwise unreadable files. But i doubt, that Poser6 will ever allow to render complex scenes in a good quality. Somehow the Poser-programmers seem to be unable to deal with complex memory-stuff. I don't want to blame anyone with this, but my experiences with Poser tell me, that they don't want or don't can fix memory-problems. So i would be content, if they at least succeed that the program doesn't crash, when running low in memory, but allows the user to save everything for the next try. I know that it is not easy to program, but in the software i write at the moment, it is no problem to render ten V3s, and the OpenGL preview is as fast as i can move my mouse. So it IS possible, but certainly not with an 10year old kernel that is filled with countless bugfixes, add-ons and python-driven (and therefore interpreted!) scripts.

try defragging your system first, reboot and retry the animation.

When is your 10-V software going to be available? A lot of people would murder to get such a thing!

@alvon: not the animation is the problem, but the incredible slowness of the animation window, that needs several minutes to copy or move keyframes! @operaguy: i will not make promises, because we work on this software not fulltime, but part-time only. As i wanted to see P6 before investing more time in a (maybe) unnecessary program, the development stopped for some time, but now i know, i can go on. I think, beta-testing can begin in summer; i will inform people here, when it is time.

Hell if you've got software that can Render 10 V3's in one scene then I'd go full time on it 'cos it'll make you a fortune!!! thefixer poser coordinator

hpdrag, I'm having the exact same problem with the animation pallette (what you call the "animation window"), so your experience is not unique. This problem probably hasn't been reported as much because the number of Poser animators has always been relatively small compared to people doing still renders. The one saving grace of Poser was always that the animation pallette worked beautifully even when the rest of the program had bugs. Now things seem to have taken a step backwards. The pallette is very slow and jerky, and if you try to "grab" frames, sometimes the outline box doesn't go where you want it to. There seems to be a big lag. It's definitely a bug. I haven't found a fix or workaround for it yet. Perhaps the "memory bug" fix will do the trick. We'll have to wait and see. -jjsemp

you'd have to think that is a byproduct of the general memory bug, people are reporting all sorts of odd here and there issues. If it is NOT, and is NOT fixed on SR1, as an animator accustomted to moving FAST around the animation pallet, the graphs and the scrubber, I will be there SCREAMING with yout guys! I am writing a note to CL with a link to this thread. ::::: Opera :::::

Thank you, jjsemp - now i know, that i'm not alone, and that there is no need to throw my pc away :-). @thefixer: the poser-problem is based on the fact, that it is a 'grown' software, originally developped at times where p4-figures and textures were huge things and when real raytracing was a thing for SGI-workstations, not even dreamable for pcs. For P5, when people cried out for raytracer, collision-detection and similar stuff, CL sticked on some bought software like firefly and the clothes- and hair-engine to this obviously almost unchanged P4-kernel. This was a very bad choice, because certainly all of those external engines need to be fed in their own data-formats - a constant waste of memory, speed and an endless source of possible bugs. Just look at the collision-detection of Poser - unfortunatelly in P6 as uselessly slow as in P5. Have the developers ever tried to enable collision detection for a V3-head and then make any posing? One minute later, something moves on the screen - if you are lucky! And it is really not a big deal to write a software that can do this in real time on a high-end-pc like mine. But the data have to be structured to be able to do so, certainly it is not possible to make it faster with P4-data-structure From my own experience i know, that it is not impossible at all to deal with huge files, if you write a software and organize the memory with the knowledge, that V3-sized figures are normal and textures can easily be 4000*4000 files. At least if you are not so lazy to use the comfortable little memory-management toys from the MS-Visualstudio, who often still live in the good old 64k world, where 1Gig is somewhere far beyond infinity ;-)

hpdrag can you tell us the name and config of your development system? C++? Also, I should say one thing, you have the prinde of the hard-charging whippersnapper that can 'do better.' That is a good thing. I would even say you are exhibiting more restraint than most 'Davids' who load up against 'Goliath.' I for one will enjoy watching your project. Things look different from the point of view of someone in the market with thousands of users all screaming for more, huge overhead and payroll that must be met week after week after week, and marketing deptartments that will promise the world at the least opportunity. They can't stop to re-write. Maybe...unless somene challeges them! ::::: Opera :::::

We are using QT from Trolltech, this is a C++-library and ressource-kit that works quite well in cooperation with the VisualStudio. You see, I also use VisualStudio - it is not completely useless, but if you deal with such filesizes and memory-demands like in 3d-programming, you may not use the VS-library classes, but have to write your own. And yes, it is our big advantage that there are no guys from a marketing or financial division who force us at pistol point, to give them something that they can sell tomorrow :-)) Sometimes such guys are necessary that we programmers find an end, but more often they are the reason that users become unpaid beta-testers.

Hpdrag, good luck on your project. Is it going to be a full fledged renderer ala 3DLight, POVRay, etc. If so, take a look at the Poser->POVRay features of PoseRay. Steve has done a great job. If you can create a quality render engine that is fast and has a good way to integrate with Poser output, you will be a very popular person. You're right. Until CL rewrites the core of Poser and abandons the old codebase, problems will always be there. I suspect there is still some code in there from the original Mac version :-) Going with a 3rd party render engine wasn't a bad idea, Daz did the same thing, but trying to integrate it with Poser's creaking foundation is asking a lot.