Sure they are, with a Visa or Mastercard!

Not if his eloquent demonstration of "free speech" is running all of the other patrons out of the restaurant.......or off of the website.

In that case, the value of his credit doesn't make up for the damage caused by his disruption.

Some individuals are simply impossible to work with. Although money covers a lot, it doesn't cover everything.

So -- he gets thrown out.

He can then practice his "free speech rights" elsewhere.

What I have seen, the reason why threads are locked is not politics, religion or any OT subject. All the threads I have seen locked recently are those that criticize Renderosity. Especially if you criticize the new TOS, the the thread is quickly locked, and your message may be deleted, too. Even here in the Community Center Forum, which was originally created for discussion about Renderosity, AFAIK. It seems that Renderositys answer to the problems caused by censorship is more censorship. Locking threads after 100 posts or so is not really justified either. Don't forget that there are thusands of members in this community. If the thread is locked, most members have never chance to say their opinion in the subject.

All the threads I have seen locked recently are those that criticize Renderosity. Yes, but those that criticize DAZ or CL are allowed to go on with the type of venomous statements that I am speaking out against. That is my whole point for raising this issue. The TOS is very unevenly enforced.

Don't forget that there are thusands of members in this community. If the thread is locked, most members have never chance to say their opinion in the subject.

And after a time, those thousands of members start to repeat the same things that have already been said in a thread over and over again.

Apparently totally missing the point of earlier posts that have already dealt with and answered their assertions.

;-)

After a while, debate threads start to move around in an endless circle -- like a calliope-driven Merry-go-round that makes a lot of noise, and engages in a lot of purposeless motion -- but ultimately goes precisely nowhere. And wastes a lot of time and energy in getting there.

"And after a time, those thousands of members start to repeat the same things that have already been said in a thread over and over again. Apparently totally missing the point of earlier posts that have already dealt with and answered their assertions." And what's the problem with this? Or there must exist someone that must judge the contents of the threads? Your assertions are the base of totalitarism, one person decide what and how much people are allowed to say.

Your assertions are the base of totalitarism, one person decide what and how much people are allowed to say.

Nope. No "one person".

Just the owners/admins of this private site. Who have the perfect right to run THEIR website in any manner that they see fit.

If anyone wants a no-holds-barred type of site, then such sites exist for them to play in. Where people are free to stick virtual knives into each other all day long.

But this site isn't one of them. Things just don't work thataway in here.

If anyone can't handle that fact, then it's best to go looking for what they want elsewhere.

BTW - the "no-holds-barred" sites on the average tend to be a lot smaller than the "totalitarian/no personal attacks allowed" sites.

I wonder why that could be?

As a business owner, practicality should trump hard ideology. At least if the business owner wishes to appeal to as wide of a customer base as possible -- and not drive people away with forum bar-fights.

This thread is also going nowhere. Maybe they should lock it before the personal attacks set in. But I do agree that they should severely restrict threads attacking or criticizing other sites. The reason being that those threads could be construed as libellous, thus possibly bringing harm to the site, thanks to stupid or malicious comments by irresponsible keyboard warriors.

This thread is also going nowhere.

Yep. It's reached that point in a debate thread's life-cycle.

As to whether or not it should be locked -- I leave that up to the mods.

But I do agree that they should severely restrict threads attacking or criticizing other sites.

Agree here, too. For the most part.

The only problem that I would point out is that an attacked party -- be it a company, a website or an individual -- should have the opportunity to answer the spurious charges that tend to be made against them on a semi-regular basis.

Locking a thread might prevent them from doing this -- and thus end up leaving the false impression that unanswered accusations made in the locked thread might be true.

It's reached that point in a debate thread's life-cycle. Which I was hinting at in my earlier post. ;-)

"Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. For jerks and nice people and all in between." (Quote: TallPockets)

"On the floor of Congress, this might be true. Especially whenever Robert Byrd or Teddy Kennedy open their mouths and flap their gums." (Quote: XENOPHONZ)

LOL. Doesn't renderosity's TOS prohibit ''personal attacks'' here? WINK. I'm a John McCain supporter, by the way. LOL.

I 'agree' with you, kind soul, that Renderosity is a 'private' board and they have the right, as such, to run it in any way, shape or manner as 'they' see fit. Can you and I agree on even that? LOL.

My point that I made earlier was not questioning their right to do so. Please, don't inadvertently or directly state otherwise on my behalf. Much appreciated.

My comments above were supportive of free speech and of another poster's 'suggestion' for an 'alternative' OT forum where all could go to on a ''voluntary'' basis. IF renderosity was so interested. I find it quite interesting that you seem to be speaking for Renderosity, itself. I think they are sufficiently more than capable to speak for themselves, imho.

I also, personally, make a deep distinction between places the ''public'' is ''forced'' to watch/read/see things that might be somehow offensive to one, versus a 'voluntary' and ''over 18'' enter at your own risk situation. For you to try to compare someone yelling in someone's face in public things not appreciated or nice, versus people going to a 'known' site with 'voluntary' enter only rules and regulations, are two completely different situations, imho.

My point above was simply if you, or anyone here, doesn't like my works posted, no one is forcing you to click onto them as to my or anyone else's uploads. If I find someone's works offensive to me or against my belief systems, I simply do not click onto and view/visit them anylonger. Problem solved, imho.

Peace & Love dear soul. To each his own. Most respectfully, TallPockets.

Message edited on: 04/11/2005 17:42

Btw .... Isn't it nice that you, I and others here can have such discussions? I noticed you had alot of postings just in this one discussion. Thanks, kindly for your viewpoints. TallPockets.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=2194311

Permit me to quote myself from post #26 in this thread:

*This idea has been suggested before in various formulations.

The problem with the thought of a "separate" forum is that unlike in Las Vegas, what happens in the "separate" forum doesn't stay there. It ends up by spreading the joy all around the rest of the site.

In fact, the things that "happen" (it's not an accident) in Las Vegas don't stay there either, but it makes for good -- although completely fake -- PR to claim that it does.*

So......dear soul.........you've got a good reason for not having such a separate forum.

At Renderosity, they've had plenty of experience with open-debate type forums. C&D, OT, and the Den.

As they say (dear soul) -- 3rd time's the charm.

Or the deal-breaker.

Please, don't inadvertently or directly state otherwise on my behalf. Much appreciated.

Seeing as how I did not "inadvertently or directly" say that you in particular had any objections regarding Rendo's right to run their own business.......

.....then your point here escapes me.

(Dear soul)

However, I was answering the posts of others.

My comments above were supportive of free speech and of another poster's 'suggestion' for an 'alternative' OT forum where all could go to on a ''voluntary'' basis. IF renderosity was so interested. I find it quite interesting that you seem to be speaking for Renderosity, itself. I think they are sufficiently more than capable to speak for themselves, imho.

Where did I say that I spoke for Renderosity?

I speak for something a bit more basic: common sense.

And realism -- as it concerns watching overwhelming success come to those sites that do things in a certain way......as opposed to different ways.

I always find it amusing when the very people that are running the most successful website in the business are repeatedly told that they don't know what they are doing.

As for the patronizing tone, dear soul -- that works about as well as the P6 firefly render engine with the memory bug in full activation.

Try again, dear soul.

My point above was simply if you, or anyone here, doesn't like my works posted

That's the second time that you've said something about "not being liked".

Sally Field?

I suspect that most of us don't know you well enough to make such an assessment. I certainly don't.

Being liked isn't high on my list of priorities.

But seeing things clearly is.

Thanks, kindly for your viewpoints. TallPockets. And thank you for yours. Always welcome. :)

What some people may term patronizing, others may simply call common courtesy. If you go through my works and comments here you'll see you're not the only person I talk to this way. Just the common sense respect my parents raised into me. My best. TallPockets.

If your words weren't intended to come across like they sounded, then that's fine.

Common courtesy is a good thing. And to be encouraged.

However, while constantly referring to someone as "dear soul" might have been the height of fashion 75 years ago -- today -- at least in written form -- it can carry just a hint of condescension with it. At least to people that are unfamiliar with your unique style of communication.

Not that it matters, mind you......some of us are a little too secure in our own thinking to be influenced by such tactics. We got over that problem a number of years ago.........

But I accept your word at face value. You were not intending to be patronizing. In future, that'll be good to know. Should we ever have the pleasure of conversing again.

My own style of debate tends to be more akin to the well-known ancient style of kung-fu -- commonly called the "bull in a china shop" school. Or, alternately, the "Marine hitting Omaha Beach" school.

Sloppy, but effective.

"If anyone wants a no-holds-barred type of site, then such sites exist for them to play in. Where people are free to stick virtual knives into each other all day long. But this site isn't one of them. Things just don't work thataway in here. If anyone can't handle that fact, then it's best to go looking for what they want elsewhere." I will repeat one important statement here again... "But this site isn't one of them. Things just don't work thataway in here." Sorry to say this but this site exists and grew and worked because this site is one of them and grew because of all that and works because of all the 'thataway' that happened here again and again. Much of the history of this place was bashed together by what you call flies now, and you and I and everybody here wouldn't be here right now because this place would not be here if it wasn't for a lot of buzzing flies that swarmed here to make something happen; good, bad, whatever, the fact is a combination of everything made it happen. Roses and tulips and forums full of dancing faires holding hands would have made this website address into a dead link by now instead of the wonderfully big info site it is.

Sorry to say this but this site exists and grew and worked because this site is one of them and grew because of all that and works because of all the 'thataway' that happened here again and again.

Sorry to say this (actually, I'm not sorry to say it) -- but this site experienced much of its growth after the close of the "good 'ol days" which you are referring to.

Much of the history of this place was bashed together by what you call flies now

I've never used the analogy of "flies". That was someone else's point.

In order to qualify as a fly, someone has to actually have the power to annoy.

Roses and tulips and forums full of dancing faires holding hands would have made this website address into a dead link by now instead of the wonderfully big info site it is

If you can find any examples of "roses and tulips and forums full of dancing fairies" around here, then I'd appreciate it if you'd point them out. Personally, I've never seen that. Nor have I seen any attempts to make it that way.

I've only seen reasonable actions to keep things in a more-or-less balanced state. Not to (as some would like to believe - because it fits their paranoid fantasies) turn this into a Disney-esque site.

A note of interest -- threads like this one wouldn't be allowed, if Renderosity were actually being run in the manner which you and others imply.

'Dead link'?

I haven't seen any evidence of that happening.

In fact, it just keeps growing.......especially as the new forum rules are being instituted.

In the meantime -- some other 'open' sites actually have gone to 404 land.....and others have gone to the brink of 404 land......

.......which shouldn't be happening: at least according to the way things are supposed to work out as we've been told by some.

Ok this topic is going nowhere and before we get out of hand I am locking this thread. :O) SndCastie Community Admin