Is anyone else making Aztec themed renders? I saw some here before and am making some of my own. I'd like to see more.

Try joining the email group NAHUAT-L@LISTS.UMN.EDU

Already a member, thanks. How about Aztec art with Poser?

Good that you mention this. I am musing on a story that begins and ends in Aztec culture. So I am looking for more root information before starting the first sketches and 3D works (with mostly Poser characters). So I'm attaching to this thread. I'm also interested in more info on how the Maya, who left their cities just like the Khmer, and mingled with the Toltecs relate to the Aztecs. Otoh: I guess most of their religious and cultural behaviour would never pass the Temple Of Shame here.

What kinds of things will you show?

Try looking at RuntimeDNA.com. For awhile, they were doing an Aztec theme in their store. (Characters, clothing, architecture, scenery, etc.) They don't have huge galleries there, but you could get the names of the Aztec products, and search on them here.

Yeah, the Aztec princess etc. I love fantasy, but not too much someone else's to use in my own stories. Thanks anyway. I'll dive deep into more research. Were women really clothed like that?

muralist: If you portray a village scene, or even a group, most children wouldn't wear kaftans that hide their carbon except for the face. Men cut their penises to spill blood as a way of giving back some liveforce to the gods. Women often tore a thorny twig along their tongue to spill blood for the same purpose. Prisoners were sacrificed, youngsters were thrown into a pit filled with water untill they either drowned or started to see visions and yes, they were naked,...And the Spaniards (I live in Antwerp and have access to some etchings on what they did to citizens when sacking the city) were not that friendly either. Men and women were tortured in the name of religion and the holy mammon called "Gold", women were raped and killed, a whole culture was destroyed, books were burnt,...

And what's left of the past is stolen by either official musea who have little no respect for the heritage of the surviving "indians" as they are studying these cultures in the name of holy objectivity, or by private collectioners who only want to posess objects out of greed.
Like the North American "indians", but a few centuries earlier. (ever saw Soldier Blue or Dead Man? Must see!)

In my story, this will be touched with a light feather as I find any kind of violence gruesome and unworthy. But a bit of it is inevitable to understand the rest. Some images can never ever be posted here, and that's neither my problem nor my concern.

As for the story itself, I'll use the wisest words George Bush Senior ever spoke: "Wait and see!"

Message edited on: 04/20/2005 09:39

well, the Wings forum's monthly challenge is on Central America..so there might be some models available later..

Attached Link: http://www.3dcafe.com/models/az_city.zip

There is an aztec city in 3dcaffe freestuf. I believe it is untextured, however... If you want historical background, search for Chicomostoc. And an objective author on azctec cosmology is Miguel Leon Portilla. I do not know if there is a translation on his works

Attached Link: http://tinyurl.com/33okt

The "Aztec Princess" outfit (as wrongly named as any number of nekkid-Vicky "Mayan" outfits) isn't representative of the fine Aztec-based content at RuntimeDNA. "Were women really clothed like that?" No way. :-) It's just fantasy. The hair prop, facial morphs, and loincloths are excellent for their accuracy. Judith's Precolumbian architecture sets are fantastic. While they're more based upon architecture and details than 100% faithful to any known site, they are close enough to be used (and modified) to represent Mexica scenes very well. IIRC the second set is a bit closer to actual artifacts. There's a third one in the works ... I think Judith wants to round out her Baker Street set before finishing Precolumbian III, but I'm excited that she's going to return to the theme. cooler made a maquahuitl (fearsome "sword" with obsidian blades.) It may be at 3D cafe for free, I'm not sure. Dodger included an atlatl (throwing axe) in his Freak Primative set at DAZ. DAZ also has some fantasy Aztec/Mayan-inspired items in their Platium Club section. I seem to remember thinking that the headdress was really good. The best and most objective contemporary work of non-fiction on Azteca culture is "Conquest" by Hugh Thomas. Key historical documents of interest are "The Conquest of New Spain" by Bernal Diaz de Castillo and the compilation of Mexica accounts called "The Broken Spears" by Miguel Leon-Portilla. manoloz, if that's the work you referred to, yes, it's been in English translation since the 1950s, I think. Read those three books and you'll have pretty much all a layman could need to make a well-rounded assessment. Unfortunately, until the very recent past, European and American cultural predjudices have tainted accounts of Aztec culture in historical works. In spite of its glorification of war and rituals that we find abominable today, the Triple Alliance at its peak was also a culture of advanced genius of engineering, law, architecture, astronomy, and culture in general.

Thanks. You can say it much better than I can. I've been browsing sites now for a few hours, and I did find a lot of good info. I also find that the four era's that preceded this one is a very good idea. Too much attention is forced towards those human sacrifices. In fact, just like saints in christian mythology, those people died for their belief. They considered it an honour to meet the gods. Yet my research led me to some doubt, and, although Chalchiuthlique was going to play a major role, I guess i'll have to change to Maya as the rainforest is also quite important. It was not my intetion to critique the Aztec princess. I'ts just that the idea of a loincloth is, indeed, fantasy. Clothes were worn for show, to discern classes and richess. A loincloth would not serve that purpose. It's about as bizarre as having the ancient Egyptian or Minoian women wear bra's. Arrghhh...musing, musing...

Chalchihuitlicue's name means somthing like She of the Precious Jade Skirt. Women wore skirts, dresses, and wraps, not loincloths and bikini tops.

Loincloths ( men) were often richly embroidered or woven with colorful designs that indeed displayed status. I'm near to releasing some authentic Aztec clothing props and figures (military). Do most of you use P4, M3, or what?

Message edited on: 04/20/2005 17:55

Indeed, while Aztec children were generally naked until late childhood, the adults were known for being quite modest; women weren't found naked in temples with swords. :-) Another common item of clothing was the simple cloak, worn by women and men (as in the attached image from "El Gran Tenochtitl" by Diego Rivera.) muralist, I'm looking forward to seeing your Aztec items. Let us know when they're ready for release, okay? These questions come up periodically so I'm sure there's some interest out there. Hard to say what figures most people use, but I think that Victoria 3 and Michael 3 are probably most common. I prefer using David for male "Indio" characters as I think the body type can be made to look closer to the real thing, not that any existing mesh is all that adaptable to Mesoamerican body or facial types. I need to brush up ... is Chalchihuitlicue a different transliteration of the name Coatlicue? Coatlicue means "serpentskirt," a very cool name (and the title of a pretty song by Cocteau Twins, LOL.) It can be hard for English-speakers to keep the names of the deities and historical figures straight. The man we used to call Montezuma II is now referred to variably as Moctezuma or Motechuzona.

"Too much attention is forced towards those human sacrifices. In fact, just like saints in christian mythology, those people died for their belief. They considered it an honour to meet the gods."

Yep, you got it. They called it "the flowery death," it was considered honorable, as was dying during warfare. (The Aztecs were very fond of flowers, one of many cultural aspects that are still alive in contemporary Mexico.) When male children were born, a blessing was said that implied that such an eventual death would be noble. Beautiful male youths were singled out to be the living representatives of gods. They were trained in the arts and writing, given beautiful clothing, treated as heroes until a certain age, when they would be ritually sacrificed. Evidently the cycle was meant not only as a sacrifice to appease the gods, but also to symbolize that even the richest lives can end in tragedy. It wasn't all about the blood lust that contemporaries over-attribute to the ancients. Just a very different mindset and belief system, although it is fair to say that the people who were trampled and attacked by the Aztecs at their peak thought of them as overly savage. :-)

Sorry if this is too much info, it's just such a fascinating lost civilization.

Message edited on: 04/20/2005 19:08

I think he was called Moctezuma Xocoyotzin Topiltzin Quetzalcoatl... Coatlicue was mother of Huitzilopochtli, Chalchihuitlicue wife of Tlaloc.

Thank you. :-)

The name Montezuma is correctly Motczah = "He [who] has frowned [in anger] like a lord"; "tctli" means "lord".
**Ctl u/b> means "it is snake, it is skirt" = "her skirt is snakes" = "Serpent Skirt".
Huitzilophtli is Huitz-tzil-oph-tli = thorn-darter-left = hummingbird-left = "he whose left hand is [= darts about] like a hummingbird". **

Message edited on: 04/21/2005 01:04

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**Chchihuitl u/b> = "precious-green-stone her-skirt".
Tl = tl-c = "ground-lie-er" = "that which lies down on the ground", i.e. pools of water after rain; Tlaloc was a rain god.
Xoyzin = "honorable youngest child".
Tzin = "honorable staff of office". **Message edited on: 04/21/2005 01:14

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Thanks Anthony. Xoconostle, I'll have the first figures ready soon -- I'll be sure to let you know.

This is a very interesting thread. I'm impressed with xoconostle's wisdom and accuracy about ancient Mexican cultures. Besides the sacrifices and other badly publicitized facts, the Aztecs were a great culture full with wisdom, family values, and good feelings. The same can be stated about the Mayas and other mexican precolombian cultures.

I have not seen a single product for Poser figures which is a real representation of the aztec's clothes.

My nephew has made a lot of animation and illustration about aztecs' clothes and lifes, but he hates poser, he does all his work in Maya.

If you can sometime come to Mexico City, go the National Anthropology Museum. It is full with displays of all cultures, showing the temples, schools, markets, crafts, etc, and of course all kinds of clothes..

If you can't make the trip, go to your bookstore or Library and find one of the many books writtten on this museum. It will have for sure a lot of pictures which will give you all the detail you might need..

Alberto Odor, MD
Mexico City

Message edited on: 04/22/2005 18:34

Message edited on: 04/22/2005 18:35

Attached Link: http://www.buckrogers.demon.co.uk/

@Xoconostle What does your name mean? The nearest that I can find in my Nahuatl to English dictionary is **xnhtli** = "unripe fruit of the prickly pear cactus".

Sometimes on a Nahuatl-related email group I end-signed as Citlalyani = "star traveller" because I have written space stories: see at this link.

Message edited on: 04/23/2005 00:32

"unripe fruit of the prickly pear cactus" That's it. He told us once, in the old OT forum. :)