Attached Link: http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/bryce2vue/

Yeah, you Poser users will try just about anything to make it so you don't have to do any work, won't you? (grins) Best not ask those kinds of questions around here, son. You don't want to know the answers. Bryce code is part of a top-secret alien invasion plan, shhh, though. Don't tell ANYONE.

asking for cracked bryce file code No. I meant that "he claims that he at last has managed to decipher the binary code that .OBP etc files are written in". I was not asking for warez or serial numbers or cereal numbers or copies of the source code of Bryce. "cracked" here is not an adjective but a participle in a compound verb tense. (When I upload a utility which I have written, I always include the source code in the upload.)

Aye, well in this case, the upload and the topic you are referring to are strictly illegal. I would suggest that you advertise your illegal activity elsewhere, if at all. Corel is STILL a big company. They would squish you.

Yes Corel is a big company, but they don't own Bryce anymore :) Anyway, conversions like these may have good intentions, and sometimes they don't. For personal use i don't see a problem, make a scene in bryce, render it, convert it to vue and see what it looks like when vue unleashes its render engine. Now there are a lot of obj.files and such around. Would it be great to be able to convert them, tweak them a bit and then distribute them like they are your own? Better not to ask those questions here, its like walking into a police station and ask there how to open an locked door. It could be that you just lost you keys, but on the other hand....

The actual question here is, is the bryce file format regarded as being proprietary information by it's owners (now DAZ), or is it under any license agreement that disallows the reverse engineering of the format. It may well be that the format is just the way it is because of previous program history and is not actually regarded as closed source by it's owners. Try actually asking DAZ - they may just say it's xyz... As an intellectual aside cryptography on a file type where you control and know the input is often very easy to crack. Try reading up the techniques of code breaking using differential fault analysis, knowing the source makes it even easier, make a scene, then save the file several times each time making a very small change (for example move an object rotation by 1 using the attributes box). Then run the files through a compare to see where they change, you can then work backwards to calculate the encryption key and bingo you've got the answer. Make sure you square away the legalities before you try such things. It is not illegal to know how to do these things, (or discuss them) it's all about the application of that knowledge. If you search on DFA alongside Bellcore, Shamir or Biham (these two have published some great theoretical papers) you will find a lot of information.

your illegal activity No. The utilities that I have written are things like my DETRIANG which detriangularizes a mesh file and it works to and from the common publicly-known .OBJ mesh mode.

the Link in question is a Lycos Members web page. There is not much else to go on. I dont have a MAC so I download that .SIT File and I uncompressed it with windows version of stuffit. I browsed around the files and there is a file called default.atm that has the following in the file header "Vue d'Esprit - .2001 e-on software, inc"

Bryce2vue reportedly doesn't work. I've suggested it to a few people an no one has had any sort of results.

Try email to angelfire tech support. They would have an email address for the site owner.

Anthony Appleyard has been around in the Poser forum for a number of years. He has his own web site, and he has written several conversion programs to go from one format to another (don't remember exactly, but stuff like .3ds to .obj..this is pre-Wings..so go easy..;) He's been offering all things scuba as models for almost as long, so I don't think he's going to try anything under the table. If I have my marbles arranged correctly, it sounds like he's just making another conversion program..I dunno..he's on the up and up (just don't cross the Sea Patrol..;)

the guy who was developing P3DO explorer was asking the same question a year or two ago... I don't believe he was able to get anywhere with it... corel was unwilling to help... daz may be more agreeable... some people around here are way too eager to start pointing fingers...

Message edited on: 04/20/2005 10:19

@Anthony Appleyard

I could be wrong, but after reading your response in post#4, I thought, he probably want's this info in order to develop a utility for Bryce.

If I'm wrong, just ignore my post.

If I'm right, then you really should't waste your time or talent in this forum in my opinion.
Develop for another app, where it'll more likely be appreciated...
and paranoia wont rear its ugly head.

I'd like to be wrong, but I don't think DAZ will help you out, if you where trying to create a Bryce-Vue converter - for obvious reasons.

As stated by FWTempest, "some people around here are way too eager to start pointing fingers."

Len.

@Pumeco: Is something bothering you?

Attached Link: http://www.senosoft.com/softp3do.php

But any Utility that will help the Bryce Community is MOST welcomed... ANTHONY contact DAZ and tell them you want to make Utilities for Bryce VIA Plugins and they Might contract you to do those Plugins...

But I think that Anthony just wanted to talk to the person who made the Utility and MIGHT have wanted to work on one that would work for the PC...?

LOL...here we go again. Pumeco, no one asked you for your opinion concerning this forum as trivial as your opinion may be. And in case you didn't know, you don't speak for the members of this forum. Just because your history here smacks of sour grapes doesn't mean that better mannered people wont have better luck than you had. Your beef may be with several individuals but I find it irresponsible on your part to cast all the members here into the generality of being unworthy. Aside from you, this forum has been cast as one of the most helpful on this site. If you're so unhappy with this forum, then what are you doing here? If you feel everyone here is below you, then leave, we certainly don't need you. As a matter of fact, we'll still be here after you've long gone. How many times have you left and came back? I for one would be most grateful if you kept your egocentric judgmental generalities to yourself.

@RobertJ

No.

@Quest

There's no need turn this thread into a war-zone just because "pumeco" has posted in it. It's not a green light for flame practice.

Like the others, I've simply posted "my own opinion", and if you don't like it, that's fine.

BTW, I post here because I'm a Bryce user - quite obvious really.

A Bryce user... with no gallery. Seems you spend more time in the forums trying to insult us than you do using Bryce. Even beginners can have gallerie, Pumeco. I still haven't seen you render anything, aside from some tests of your fabled Pro-Render. If you're stil butt-hurt about that, why do you keep coming back? Honestly, I'd like to see you actually do something with Bryce. And I can't figure out why you haven't?

If anyone else want's to "have a go at pumeco", be my guest, only do it on our site, not here.
I'll get the web designers to rush-up a temporary board, where you can get it out of your system - hows that?

Methinks you'll find yourself alone, there. Enjoy.

Really - how little you know.

(kimpe pulls up his chair and bowl of popcorn). ;)

I think Anthony means well... He helped "Poserize" some of my models. Basically I think he wants to know if there was a way to convert .obps and .br4/.br5 to other formats. I wouldn't mind a Bryce 5 to Bryce 4 .obp converter even... However there are probably some goofy tricks with how the code embeds data. And then Bryce isn't exactly efficient, even though it's cryptic. (Image based mats are uncompressed before being stored with a Bryce model, etc. Which explains why a .obp with mats is bigger than the .obj with mats that it was converted from.) I think he needs to talk to DAZ about this... Perhaps with some type of agreement they might let him do this. The catch to this is that I think the resulting software would have to be under DAZ's control.

you really should't waste your time or talent in this forum What do you call this gem? Is this your idea of accolades? And you dont expect people to react to this insensitivity? Take stock!

Quest, it's an opinion - and I quote;

"...then you really should't waste your time or talent in this forum in my opinion."

If my opinions mean so little, why get upset about them?

Everyone here gets treated differently to a certain extent, and "my" opinion is brought about by how "I" see this forum - and that's all there is to it.

I've "never" left, and I'm not going to "pretend" to leave again, just because various members of the forum can't control their urge, for a good forum-war now and then.

As far as I'm concerned, this forum's never so lively as it is when there's a pumeco-war going on, and anyone who thinks otherwise, are fooling themselfs - the proof is laid bare in the "many" threads.

As a forum, you clearly enjoy it - TAKE STOCK.

ok..neutral corners, both of you..;) Anthony, I hope you found an answer in all this..;) back to your regular programming..;)

Yeah, Anthony I apologize for any insult in my statements. I see that you are looking into this for all the right reasons, and I think I was harsh in prejudging you. I hope all is well in your world, and in yours Len.

If Anthony cracks the bryce format he could do a bryce to blender converter lol

Every God damn time someone with experience making applications or content or in some way contributing to program, expresses interest in Bryce in this forum, they get brutally attacked. How the hell can anyone expect Bryce to grow or develop as a mainstream application if that is the welcome rolled out in this forum. Far to many potential contributors and artists have been chased out of this forum at pitchfork point. Lyrra Madril, Pumeco (although, strangely enough, he's still here), JimBobCarl, and now Appleyard, and those are just the ones off the top of my head. Could we please get a clue before we launch vicious attacks at anybody who tries to be helpful in a constructive way. Constructive as opposed to telling someone that Bryce can't do something, they should give up now. Or that maybe they should try a different app. Or to get the hell out and let us stew in our own fermented egos. And no, I will not let it go. This is my forum too. Im not going to sit here and watch a small handful of people bully Bryce into a corner. Bryce is and will always be, a beginners app. Not that its weak or ineffectual, but the GUI alone invites the user to create. And a great number of users can produce truly amazing artwork with it. But this is where the beginner should be able to come to get help and inspiration, not brow beaten into silence.

Pumeco, its a negative, mal aligned, judgmental, prejudicial and inflammatory remark targeting all Bryce members. I would call it flaming. Whats more, I didnt read anywhere in this thread where someone asked for your exalted opinion about the forum or ask for your substantive, quantitative analysis of this forum. In other words, it was totally uncalled for, but for some reason, you felt you had to say it. In doing so, you were out of place and I take issue. During your brouhaha here over your contribution I kept an opened mind and gave you the benefit of the doubt and watched you banter back and forth in your posts to the point of disrespecting long time members here. Now you want to lump the entire forum membership under the banner of being unworthy. I see it as sour grapes and get back time coming from you. You just couldnt let the opportunity pass you by, thats some ego trip! To Anthony, Im sorry! Up until this I was thoroughly enjoying your post and viewed it as refreshing and with possibilities. On first read I could sense and predict a misunderstanding as to the legality issue with the code. I feel several of the members here have steered you in the right direction. Let us know how things turn out it would be an interesting read. I wish you all the luck in your endeavor and you are most certainly welcomed here anytime.

@ Anthony: Try to remember what happend to Sixus1 recently, DAZ has a VERY bad attitude when it comes to things they own, so I would check with them first, and then work on what you wanna work on, sir ! :D OBP, to my knowledge, is still propriatery format, cuz it's structure was never publically released by any company (MetaCreations, Corel or DAZ) :D

What happened to Sixus1....? I have been to busy to even hear what happened...?

He made character which was able to accept textures and clothing for Victoria3, but not morphs, of course(different geometry), and DAZ made him withdraw it, for more info, search Poser forum here @ Renderosity :)

WOW...

Sixus1 is with CuriousLabs now, no cookies for DAZ ! :P

http://www.senosoft.com/softp3do.php Yarp did succeed in HELPING the Bryce community with his Program which If I remember correctly (Because I was Betatesting for him at the time)And it does read Bryce3,4,5 file format...

I have downloaded the latest P3DO (ordinary form, not pro form). It does not read Bryce format. When it finds a .BR3 or .BR4 or .BR5 or .OBP Bryce file, it merely says that there is a file with such and such a name, with a white thumbnail with in its middle the same file mode icon that ordinary Windows Explorer displays. Message edited on: 04/21/2005 01:29

"Try to remember what happend to Sixus1 recently, DAZ has a VERY bad attitude when it comes to things they own, so I would check with them first, and then work on what you wanna work on, sir ! :D" And once you've remebered that, you should really go see the attitude of most artists when it comes to things they own/create and tubers lol. As for the sixus1/DAZ thing - this is my interpretation of a lot of threads, so it could be a bit off as I may have missed things - from what I read, sixus1 copied DAZ's V3 joint parameters or made something very very very similar to several decimal places (which is what you've got to do to make the V3 clothes fit really well on a non V3 model). I also thought sixus1 chose to withdraw the product themselves (as is their right), rather than doing what DAZ asked which was include something in the sixus1 character installer that made sure the free V3 was already installed - a sort of "if you use something derived or indistinguishable from our joint parameters, then you've got to have our product installed" kind of thing... I think. That all said, sixus1 make some really nice models and things and fill the monster niche with many tentacled things and other beasties you don't often see from other places (and make a lot of very nice freebie critters and characters as well).

C. YOU MAY NOT:

1. use the Product or make copies of it except as permitted in this License.
   -->2. translate, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Product except to the extent the foregoing restriction is expressly prohibited by applicable law.<--

Did I miss anything in the license that might make this legal? If you want to know if it's legal to do something with a program it is all spelled out in the license agreement.

Message edited on: 04/21/2005 12:01

@ Flak: I believe that whole confusion about Joint Parameter was that those are not mesh specific, they could be theoritically the same for complitelly different mesh, cuz they are only definitions of fall-offs, which are spheres, and DAZ never said anything directly in their agreement about that, but they made it that way that anything could be concluded out of it, if they wanted to...:D All human models should IMHO have similar joint parameters (obvious reason why Curious Labs never made issue about it, their parameters for poser characters are free to use as I understand, as long as you own Poser). :)

I was not wanting to reveal the source code of Bryce.

Yeah, the Bryce file format is encrypted, encoded, encrusted and in cohoots, the only legit way to do anything to it outside of Bryce, would have to go through DAZ.

@Anthony Appleyard

Good luck with your project, and my apologies if I've messed up your thread by posting in it.

@Quest

It's unfortunate you've decided to join the anti-pumeco bandwagon. Maybe you didn't understand my reason for posting my comment, which was;

I read a perfectly acceptable post by Anthony Appleyard, and in no time at all, accusations and assumptions started to rear their ugly head. Now put yourself in my shoes for just one moment, and you'll realise why from my point of view the "alarm-bells" started ringing. I've been through "major" agro here myself, and I also remember how it started...

...I hinted at a product that would help Brycers - lol - what a mistake.

@xenic101

Well said (post 31), 'bout time someone had the balls to say something around here.
Anyway, I'm still here because I like it here. The fact of the matter is, I never really left.
Insecure egotrippers may have driven others away - it won't work on pumeco.

Like I said...

PR=B5.5+6W-

@ Pumeco This whole attitude thing between you and couple other ppl here really makes me sick, it is in it's core "who is the top dog around here" thing, I guess some ppl really need that to feel better, just try to be more constructive and helpful, and you gonna be fine... If you believe that you gained some kind of special and higher knowledge, that is fine by me, you can believe whatever you want to....:D BTW, I have balls to show my work here and share my models and tehniques, i think that is all it matters :)

I dont see any evidence that Anthony is trying to reverse engineer any software here. From my understanding, if in fact hes working on some conversion utility, he needs to see the specs of that file to be able to derive a means of conversion to another format. But if the owners of Bryce holds that file format to be proprietary hell not be able to code out his conversion utility except for his own personal use. So the question is, are those file formats proprietary? The best and most direct way to find out is to ask the owners. and if not proprietary, where can he obtain the specs/source code?

Message edited on: 04/21/2005 15:50

Ik zie dat spuit 11 nog steeds modder geeft.

@ Kemal OK, sounds like you know more about joint parameters than me :) Clarifying things - I presume that to make clothes that would fit two different figures/meshes, the two figures/meshes would have to be the same length dimensions between joints - i.e. forearm lengths would have to be the same, shoulder to elbow distances, knee to hip, knee to ankle... things like that. I imagine you could make the second character have skinny arms and legs and it would still fit the first characters clothes ok as long as the distances between the joints was the same. Or does poser auto correct in the conforming process for different lengths of arms and things like that so that the shirt would be stretched or shrunk to fit the different arm lengths or ratios of forearm to upperarm length things that may occur? Next question - falloff zones - do they just affect how the mesh (which represents the figures skin/muscle) deforms when bending the joint? Is that how it works... more or less? "All human models should IMHO have similar joint parameters" That makes sense, but then, some of the human models look a lot less human than others lol. "(obvious reason why Curious Labs never made issue about it, their parameters for poser characters are free to use as I understand, as long as you own Poser)." Isn't that similar to "our joint parameters are free to use as long as you own V3"... though I must admit I'm not sure what use you'd have for jessi/james (P6 figs) joint parameters without poser... but then, maybe if Daz Studio takes off and actually becomes a serious competitor to Poser then the CL interpretation of joint parameter ownership may change if you started making jessi/james compatible figures for use in DS. All interesting stuff :)

@ Flak :) As I understood it (and I read it long time ago) fall-off zones in Poser are spheres and lenght of bones does not do nothing for them, i might be wrong, lol. Actual deformation is hapenning along the bone inside those spheres and is less affecting the mesh the further polygons are from the joint. There should not be any deformation of the mesh outside those zones... Hope that made it more clear (at least it's more clear to me)! :D Yep, interesting stuff !!! :D

Reverse engineering from blackbox functionality is to my knowlege legal to do for puposes of creating compatable products. IANAL but I think that was the crux of the judgements in the DMCA vs refillable inkjet carts and universal garage door remotes recently. As long as you can show that you have not decrypted or decompiled I think you are in the clear. Now if the format has a patent it is another story. I/P such as trade secrets is fair game, hence the obfuscation/encryption.

@RobertJ (message 47): Huh?? I know Dutch, but what are you referring to?