sorry I feel like having a little gripe, due to the current and recent images that have been in the poser hot 20 have been far from fantastic, and yet some images in the gallery are fantastic and dont see the light of day. its so sad that certain people constantly get there images into the hot 20 list, not because there fantastic images, but because they have alot of friend who vote on everyone of there image regardless of its quality. what also really gets me is all these images with craploads of postwork in photoshop done on them being in there. if you draw hair/clothes/backgrounds etc in another program, your image belongs in MIXED MEDIUM, and definately should NOT be voted for a top 20 spot. am I the only person who feels this way?

No, you're not the only one. This subject is raised at least 4 times a year. Really.

The Hot 20 is about as relevant and important as an egyptian ankh medallion. Nice if you like that sort of thing but hardly life-changing. I have the dubious honour of being in there once but big deal; it didn't make me richer, more famous, pay my bills and so forth. :)

My advice - forget it. It won't change. No, I'll rethink that; if it changes, it will only piss on someone else's bonfire. Edited because I can't fcuking tpye

Message edited on: 04/30/2005 19:10

I don't mind either way... I agree if it's POSER HOT 20, then I suppose it should have Poser generated images... but then I just love some of that postwork that's going on out there... blows me away! All images whether in the Hot 20 or galleries are worthy of viewing, other peoples' creativity is inspiring... and gives me ideas! (My 2 cents worth)

A lot more than 4 times a year, I think. It's at least once a month these days. :-)

If you know of some fantastic pics that aren't seeing the light of day, post a link here in the forums. Seriously. The galleries are so overwhelming I rarely look at them any more. But I'd still love to see some nice art. The Hot 20 are, as you've noted, heavily influenced by personal popularity, and usually a very limited style of art.

Hmm take it or leave it guess - it reminds me a lot of some of "competitions" here on on other sites. I've seen images that have attracted more views and comments than any others in the competition, only to see that obviously what the public though was great didn't get a look in with judges.....

I think Rosity does the best they can with contests. Take a peek in the chat room sometime when a big contest is running. You'll find people begging strangers for votes. The next day, a picture that looks like it belongs on mommy's refrigerator will be in the #1 slot. And people will be wondering how in heck that happened. So Rosity usually uses a mix of popular voting and judges, which, though not ideal, is probably the best solution.

It's not a problem I noticed so much on R'osity - more so on other sites, and I'm not talking about fridge pics here either, they have been really good images as the comments have reflected but it just seems that if it isn't a "known" artist they tend to get overlooked in the final judging.

Yeah, I know what you mean. You get that in the real world, too. Even in fields outside of art. Name recognition is everything.

Hi All :) Just want to say before this gets out of hand (which I've seen before).. lets keep this nice please! looks for some popcorn :) Thanks guys! Ryuslilangel Poser Moderator

This subject is raised at least 4 times a year.

Whew!

I was starting to get worried there. No one had started a thread about the Hot 20 in at least a couple of weeks or so........I suppose the "blather" controversy -- along with the P6 release -- helped to keep this one off of the front pages for a while.

But now my mind has been set at ease. Things are back to normal. We can continue fighting over the Hyped 20.

Just like the Michael Jackson trial, this one never gets old. Every week or two, we'll hash it over once again.

I just can't wait to hear the latest news on Michael Jackson. It's so great to be kept up to the second on such a devestatingly vital issue!

Likewise, my day just isn't the same without reading complaints over the Hyped-up 20 in the forums! What an important issue!

We need more of this!!!!!!

Bring on the threads!

Nahhhh. It gets discussed in derivative threads at least 3 or 4 dozen times a year. If not more than that.

And it gets mentioned in a lot of other threads, where it's OT to the central concern.

I've never been to the Hyper 20.

What's he talking about........?

Never heard of it.

Hey!

How come I'm not in it!!!!!!?????????

The whole thing is rigged, I tell ya!!!!!!!!!!

...at least once a month? It seemss bi-weekly to me.

My opinion - the PH 20 should stand for Postworked Hair 20, not Poser Hot...

If you think some pictures that get voted into the PH20 (remember now, PH stands for Postworked Hair) are bad, you should check out the Bryce Hot 20, there consistently appear pictures by the same group of 'artists' that not even a mom would stick on her fridge...

just my opinion and I'll now shut up on the subject..

Message edited on: 04/30/2005 21:23

"I just can't wait to hear the latest news on Michael Jackson. It's so great to be kept up to the second on such a devestatingly vital issue!" Hehehehehehe.

Hey anybody looking at my images in the galleries....?

If we all know what it is, then why do we bother about it? Why does it even concern us? Why does it hold enough value to us to make it worth squabbling over?

After all -- as everyone knows -- there's nothing in the Hip-Hopped-Up 20 but 100% garbage, anyway.

But of course on the other hand, if my stuff was in it, then it would be perfectly fair and well thought-out..........

If we all know what it is, then why do we bother about it? Um...for the same reason we answer whenever someone asks, "Why does Vicky disappear when I try to dress her?"

...so don't dress her. Don't we need to maintain our quota of NVIATWASs? There has been a definite lack of them (NVIATWAS) lately...

Message edited on: 04/30/2005 21:31 Edited to add: Not directed at you randym77 but at those who ask...

Message edited on: 04/30/2005 21:33

LOL! Yes, I understood you. :-)

Though come to think of it, since Poser 6, we haven't been getting nearly as many people asking why Vicky disappears when you try to dress her. This place just isn't going to be the same!

I never knew that this was something discussed all the time, not been a frequent forum visitor (or not frequent enough) I've never seen a thread on this before. oh well. the reason I got so peeved about it was not actually the hot 20 itself, but more the comments thing, I search through the poser gallery nearly everyday, until I've seen the thumb of every new image since the last time I visited. now I comment on 3 type of images, those that are fantastic (and give them a vote), those by new people to poser, and images that are having trouble getting comments. comments do a huge thing for someone struggling with getting to grips with poser. and also, all these people who comment and say "this is the best image ever!" etc etc, if its so cool, VOTE FOR IT!! its not that hard, you click the vote button, and a little window pops up. if I think an image is great, I click the vote button, then write a comment.. oh well.. blah blah blah!

Over in the Poser newsgroup in Usenet (alt.binaries.3d.poser)
they are actually saving bunnies with nude Vickies. For evey
nude Vicky posted a bunny is saved.

You are not alone. I looked at the Poser Hot 20 just once in my life. It wasn't worth a second look. I try not to participate in anything that requires voting (including contests) because the best images rarely seem to win. It's always just the person who has the most friends. I do like contests which are judged by a panel of judges. Those are nice.

Yeah but those judges are somebody's friends. Is it possible to get a panel of judges that have no friends? :)

I don't understand the objection to certain topics being raised more than once. To me, this simply means that the topic is of interest to Renderosity members, just as Michael Jackson is interesting to newspaper readers. As long as people are willing to discuss something, they should post it. As long as people want to know about Michael Jackson, they should read the papers. Chacun a son goute.

go

I don't think it's fair to say that the Hot 20 is full of bad images; every time ToxicAngel, voodoo, and other popular artists post a new pic, it goes right up there (as it should). I think the problem of the same basic images by the same artists week after week is the real issue. The only way real to change that is just to vote more often. If we can remember to vote on every pic that we take the time to leave a comment on, it might make the list more accurately represent what we think are that week's best - postworked hair or not. :) Thanks, take care. SnowS

Yeah but those judges are somebody's friends. Is it possible to get a panel of judges that have no friends? ROFLMAO!!! Will you stop that?!?!?!?!

pookah69 - I agree that if someone wants to discuss a topic, they should post and it's not for me to stop 'em. That said, I really don't think the Hot 20 is worthy of discussion. Maybe some of the images "deserve" to be there, maybe some don't. IMO it's a little like arguing with your friends over which song should be #1 in the charts, ie, pointless, irrelevant and not at all life changing. That is not intended as a slight against templargfx, btw, just something I honestly believe.

Oh, wow, not only a "Hot 20 suck" but ALSO a "postwork sucks", all in the same general complaint! Cool! bonni

I thought the PTB was going to look into a way to change the Hot 20 and voting. This was months ago. Just curious when this change is about to take place.

What I personally like is to follow the links to the favourite works and artists when visiting the gallery of someone who posted something that intrigued me. That way you find real gems, and you can fill a folder in your browser's preferences with people whose work you really like. Top twenty, most sold items,...I don't care about those. To be chosen by the herd, you have to conform to its braindead superficiality. All the Moon can do is reflect light, not create it, and, with this reflection, influence the tides of human sentimentality and fashion.

It really is the "who has the most friends top 20" and I find it very sad that ppl are so insecure about their "art" that they have to desperately make it in there to feel better about themselves.. very sad Same with all these glowing comments on images that really could use improvement. Sure every once in a while ppl need to hear something positive..but you're not helping anybody by feeding them lies.. you'll just end up hurting them in the long run...

"am I the only person who feels this way? " Unfortunately not. There are far to many people getting upset weekly over something that should have been done away with years ago. 8 )~ Tom

Oh my God....Where is the PINK PONY when we need him?

lol@Frisketus I was wondering who was going to bring that up. Tom

I was not saying postwork sucks at all, thats half the problem with poeple nowadays, they dont READ what you write. I said that images with large amounts of postwork in another program should be posted in the MIXED MEDIUM gallery, as thats what these images are, poser bases with photoshop art on top.

I'll vote for you. How much money are we talking about?

Anyone who visits the HOT 20 has seen my not so subtle posts there. I get so tired of doe eyed boob gals for their own sake. Makes me wanna hurl. Go check out artists like voodoo or archangel_gabriel. Now THERE'S some kick ass Poser action. Sad that artists such as those mentioned and the like never see daylight. The hot 20 should be limited to a monthly alotment. If you're in already you cant get in until next month. Toshi

SamTherapy--too late! When you comment that something is "not worthy of discussion," you've already engaged in the discussion! heh heh :)

I agree that the Poser Hot 20 should be only Poser related, but i still enjoy seeing Progs work in there, and for the day someone does a pure render with no postwork that surpasses Progs works... Hmmmm

For me, I've learned not to gauge popularity as a measure of my work's worth. There are tell tale signs that are of greater value than those popularity contests. For instance, my homepage just received its 500th hit. To me, that indicates that people are interested in my work and want to know more about me. Also, when I post a new image, I notice that people go back and look at my earlier work. That also shows interest. I consider this an indicator that I am doing something right. But most important, other Renderosity members who send me instant messages and emails--those are the greatest sources of support and inspiration. People like SamTherapy, Geep, Jameshunter, Karen1573 and many others who take the time to express appreciation or offer solutions, critique, suggestions...this means all the world to me, far more than being a "top 20."

Message edited on: 05/01/2005 11:27

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=797495&Start=19&Sectionid=0&filter_genre_id=0&Form.S

"SamTherapy--too late! When you comment that something is "not worthy of discussion," you've already engaged in the discussion! heh heh :) " :P

I agree, top 20 does not mean top quality. As for postwork, I think it should be OK. Some Poser images aren't even rendered in Poser. I myself am guilty of posting in the Poser gallery images that heve been post-worked or even rendered outside of Poser, as long as the main components were set up in Poser. Eddie

The latest N'Varra Wren model isn't showing boobs, and I think it's a REALLY good image worthy of the Poser Hot 20. AND she doesn't have hair, so no postwork!!! 100% Poser 6. Please be my friends. Vote me in :)

1. I DID read what you wrote. I was having a bit of fun based on many years of observation of this forum and how the "no postwork" thing comes up now and then in different flavors. That's the problem with people these days. They take themselves too seriously. 2) I come from a traditional art background. Mixed media is MIXED media. It's paint and pencil, or collage blended with paint, or photography blended with collage and pencil, etc. In this case, the "medium" is "DIGITAL". It's not "Poser" or "Photoshop" or "Vue d'Esprit". It's ALL digital. I know that it says on the "Mixed Media" gallery, but frankly, I don't think it's mixed media. If I drew it on paper, scanned it in, and then colored it, THAT would be mixed media. Mind you, this is only my opinion, and it's also my opinion that organizing the galleries according to program is a rather silly way to do it. 3) Have a great day, and take a breath and realize that sometimes, people are just making a joke. You don't have to take it all to heart, you know. bonni

i love it when some one starts the hot 20 rant I see some green eyed and biter ppl in and out on this one ppl that use to be in it all the time and now they cant get in it no matter how much azz they kiss Yes i sed azz and thats what it is ppl bi#$h that they dont get in ppl bit$%ing that others do coz they have friends Popularity Contest hell yes it is we all know it Iv seen most the "Popular" ppl come and go and did you ever come to think maybe some of them have so many friends coz they are nice ppl no bet you dont see it that way do you no one ever dos . ever think that maybe if you reach out and talk to some them ppl in the top 20 you would not think all they do is sit in there lil room with there lil frinds and plot to keep other ppl out. you guys are rich just rich i tell you come on you want in the top 20 work for it meet ppl get off your lazzy azz and get to know some the ppl you are bitching about ALL the time maybe you might come to like a few of them. As far as post work gos learn how to do it if you cant then o well on you poser is a starting point if all you do is add v3 uses some lights textures and poses you bought you really think you should be in the top 20 lmfao i dont think so the post work is what makes the images yours its something you made the rest is crap you bought and slaped together and called it art. you want to rant im came and you know what if it makes me a bitch lmao o well wont be the last time im called that So what some one is better at something then you learn how to it your self be better at what you do or shut up

I don't think anyone is saying that people aren't nice, or don't deserve their popularity. Or even that the "clique" is hard to break into. Rather, they are saying that popularity shouldn't enter into it.

And hey, what if I buy Photoshop brushes? Then even if I do postwork, it's crap I bought and slapped together and call art. ;-)

I don't think the objection is to postwork, at least not for most people. The issue is that it's always the same kind of postwork, the same kind of art. I like the style, actually, but it's a bit overwhelming when almost every image on the list is like that. I'd like to see more variety, that's all.