Intrinsic Poser Storage Flaw! As a beginner to Poser, it took me several days to even begin to comprehend what to do with all the wonderful downloads of characters, texture maps etc. for Poser 4. Then, after having not looked at Poser for about 4 months, I was again, almost totally at a loss for how to "load a new character". I purchased several characters from the Online Store and ran into some serious problems . What every beginner finds confusing is that every file must be put into a different folder. It is very, very confusing. Plus you either run out of hard disk space or you have to seriously limit your "loads". First of all, I can never get theses characters to ever look even 1/2 as good as in the pictures shown in the store. This is probably just lack of knowledge on my part. But why not provide more information about the rendering parameters? How do these people get such fantastic renderings? Does everyone know this except me? Second, the readme.txt that is supplied with the free, and the purchased downloads is extremely limited and generally too little. The assumption is that every purchaser is an expert. I would be surprised if this was true. Experts, probably do less purchasing than those of us who know very little, otherwise we could do it all ourselves. Third, my contention is that the entire Poser storage management system is very poorly thought out. Here is why: I'm talking about Windows based systems, although these ideas apply also to Mac' etc. 1 All the add-ons (downloads of characters, textures, etc.) take up enormous amounts of hard disk space and it is all under the Metacreations folder under c:programs. Consequently, the size of the C: drive must be very, very large. This is very bad because backing up drive C: becomes much more difficult, and time consuming. Most intelligent people eventually realize that the Operating system and application programs should reside on a separate partition from DATA (I consider all of the add-ons for Poser DATA). The benefit of this separation is great. For example, if your OS (Windows!) is badly screwed up and you cannot boot into GUI at all, you are reduced to booting from floppy into DOS, but when you copy your data the long filenames will be truncated. Worse yet, you may lose all of your data on drive C: completely, whereas if your data is on a separate partition D: (or perhaps even a different hard drive) it is likely to survive whatever disasters befall drive C: (except if the entire hard drive crashes, since logical partitions are still on a single phyical hard drive. Often the only way to fix a badly damaged Windows OS is to format the C: partition and reload from scratch. If your DATA resides on a separate partition you have nothing to worry about. If you are changing your operating system, it is again well advised to start with a clean system--so it is a good idea to format your c: partition. You'll have less extra leftover useless scraps of your old OS hanging around taking up space. And so on. But getting back to Poser. This maybe a very naive question, but why not simply create a folder for each new character which contains EVERY DAMN thing needed for that character (cr2, texture maps, morph targets etc.) This would have the advantage of PORTABILITY. Life for the USER would be much, much easier. Obviously, this storage method may actually create increased storage waste due to redundant storage of shared "goodies". Also this may not be "elegant" from a programmers point of view. But keep in mind that EASE OF USE and PORTABILITY should have a higher priority than programming convenience. Failing to pay attention to EASE OF USE, and GOOD INTERFACES, is the entire industries biggest and most serious problem. I welcome your comments. Sincerely, Dan S. Tong

Your points are valid, and I've often wished the same thing. However, most people organize their files (putting geometries in one folder, and textures, poses, cameras, lights, etc. in other folders) so that they conform to Poser's directory structure. Library items, in particular, won't show up as thumbnails in the library unless they're in the right folders. Reinstalling all the downloaded and purchased items is a great chore that I'm going through now . It sure would be nice if the next release of Poser (whenever that may be) could implement a simpler folder structure, or some sort of file management system that could make this task easier. It seems to me there might be a utility somewhere that helps you manage this stuff, but I can't remember which one it is. Anyone? Denise

You may be thinking of CR2EDIT. I've just installed the latest update, but although CR2EDIT should help with installs, it will not solve the overcrowding problem, or lack of portability. The solution must come from Curios Labs, from modifying Poser storage structure. I've sent a copy of this to them, but they don't even have a Customer Suggestion Box, so I had to send my letter to an arbitrary e-mail. If Poser was designed with more foresight, and if you had the opportunity to install all of your "downloads" into a separate folder on perhaps a different drive--all you would have to do is tell the reinstalled Poser where the fodlers are and it would all work. Dan

You can install the program into a drive other than c: (in the screen following typing in the serial # in the box labeled "destination folder" click browse) but you will still have to put all of the assorted files in their proper places within the poser file structure (geometries, props, hair etc.) I plan on buying a hard drive solely for poser. 8^)

I guess I am a little strange, but I keep my textures, transmaps, all the stuff that Poser doesn't HAVE to have to load the character, on my desktop. It keeps Poser smaller, at any rate, and I know where I have everything.

some povs here: 1. (renders) You can't expect to be an expert as soon as you buy Poser or any other programm - it took some time to find out which dials to touch to get a good rendered image ... 2. I know about the readme-files but normally in every readme-file is an email-address - so you can simply contact the creator via mail. OR you can ask in the Forums - mostly anyone will help you and please: rtfm (sorry - don't mean it personally) 3.1. In my opinion it is at least an advantage of Poser storing all files into one location ... it helps you to have at least a n overview over the huge files (yes they are huge - 'cause you're working in 3D ! Think of dxf or max-files ... and btw: you could change the location for the files by editing the source-files (*.cr2, *.pp2) finally you even could decide where to install Poser - afaik you could install Poser on another HD than C: and for some damage of C: - try backups - use PQ-magic or make images ... back to poser ...: Most Poser-users know where to find the needed files (obj in Objekt-library - for example) - Poser detects the needed textures automatically if they are under the runtime-folder ... - so you can arrange them whatever you like. Bye (for any questions you can mail me at schlabber@yourwap.com)

It is precisely the size of the files that makes me keep them out of the Poser folder. Seems like every single texture I change and change and change...Same with transparencies. Sooo...when I finally finish what I was working on, I merely remove that file off my desktop, store it...and, bam, my little hd is cleaner again. I know this takes more time, but to me it is worth the effort as I have a tendency to get bogged down. (I want everything I see, and then I want to make it better...kinda an Imelda Marcos effect in poser.)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/~syyd/

I agree with Schlabber on a couple of his points. Good work is only gained by experience. It is amazing the amount of Poser users who have never used the spotlights. Never used the camera dials or don't even know about perspective. I don't mean this to be offensive to anyone but, 90% of the renders that I see in Poser are flat, badly lit and badly composed. If you want to do better work, you should study the images of others. Good and bad images. You have to look and learn from them. How did they do that? How can I do that? There are a million and one tutorials for Poser on the web. As far as the readme's in products that are for sale. Yes in 'SOME' instances I can agree. I have seen textures sold in the store that have no 'readme'... These are textures for 'Mike' and 'Vicki', who have a much more comlicated setup, for a beginer than 'posette'. There are no .cr2's or pz3's with these texture sets.... I know that my wife 'Syyd' who sells many textures and characters in the store includes a very easy to read, but extensive 'readme' with every purchase. The purchase also includes .cr2's as well. Unfortunately Poser is structured in such a way that certain files have to go in the correct places, but there are many tutorials and a lot of help is available to beginers. I think that once you have accomplished this procedure once, it can become like second nature to most people. We were 'all' beginers at one time. About the backup of Poser stuff. Yes, it doesn't have to be installed on drive C:, it can go anywhere. But, that often will make the job of installing new stuff that little bit more complicated. Also, have you ever thought of backing up your 'Runtime' folder to CD's periodically. Split it up onto one or more disks. Date each one and if your system goes down, all you have to do is copy everything back on from the last set of backups... Colm...

I have Poser installed on a separate drive. And, yes, the file sizes are huge. But using a high speed CD-(re)writer, poser is still relatively easy to back-up or (re)-install; it just takes some time. Switching to a new computer platform last month, i managed to get my complete poser installation (about 4 Gigs worth of files) on a new drive in couple of hours. I didn't re-install poser from the original disks, just copied the lot from my back-up CD-ROM's and it works fine. I think there are other, more pressing matters to attend to regarding the poser software : maybe include a "true" renderer, a better memory manager, optimisation for new processor types (even my Ghz PC can grind to a halt when composing a relatively simple Poser scene, whereas the same scene doesn't "pose" any performance problems in programs such as Max or Lightwave) Quality of rendering : it takes a lot of practise, and even within Poser, the results can be very impressive. Play around with lighting & shadows, camera settings and textures,... and pretty soon you'll see the quality of your Poser renders improve dramatically.

I haven't bought that many items from the store, but any seller that puts up stuff that goes in more then one folder in Poser without some kind of installer, or a system, AND instructions shouldn't be selling. When I first started downloading Poser items I noticed some were placed in the same folder names that Poser uses, with folders inside that, staring with a "runtime" folder. I just used those as a guide to placing the files, it didn't occur to me untill much later that if you Unzip to the Poser 4 folder all the files automatically go untill the right places- I never saw that in a read-me, but that is how it works. This is the simplest installer, it works on Macs too, and it is the one that I use. Only I include a Read-Me-First file to give some instruction, as well! This way you can install a new item in seconds, some don't trust the Zip to not overright existing files, but if you do it works well.

Be so kind as to explain to me how to make this "work on Macs too", please. We use (typically) Stuffit Expander.

I was referring only to the strategy of keeping the OS and the application Programs separate from your data. There are many, many advantages to doing that. Some application programs don't even separate your data into a separate folder (data is mixed right in with program files). This is very stupid. The main idea is that once you have an application program all loaded it does not change much, but your data is constantly changing. Therefore it makes sense to backup your data often, and your application programs much less often, thereby save both time and space (backup media). I hope this makes it clearer.

Attached Link: http://www.curiouslabs.com

I learned the hard way about mingling data and apps in the same folder and even the same physical or logical drive. Very, very bad thing to do. Drive failures, viruses, even accidentally deleting apps and removing folders, can all cause data loss. And the hell with the apps, it's the data we all care about! I have learned to be anal about my data and have devised a really robust strategy for safeguarding it. I have 2 physical hard drives in my main computer. The first hard drive is partitioned into APPS (C:), and DATA (E:). THe second hard drive (D: weird lettering system, gotta love MS!) is ONLY used for backup, which I run nightly for data and twice a week for boot and app files using NovaDisk. Keeping apps and data totally separate has saved my tuchus on many occasions. All I need to do in the worst case scenario is load Windows and NovaDisk, unpack the backups, and I'm back in business. And it's great for those moments when you think "Wait" as you click "Empty Recycle Bin". And, since I have several computers on my LAN, I use this box as a data server, so all data used on my LAN comes from the one drive. Each computer has a secondary drive, which receives copies of my data backups, meaning that I have 3-5 copies of my data at all times. If you only have one computer, I strongly recommend adding a second hard drive for backup or even making a logical drive to store your data on. If you use dual boot NT/9x, you can make the data volume FAT32 for easy access from either OS. Alternatively, ZIP drives are very cheap insurance provided they are used religiously. Since implementing my backup strategy, I have not lost a single byte of data through crashes, viruses, hardware failure, etc. Just my personal .02 :-) Anthony Hernandez Senior Technical Writer Curious Labs

Anthony: I think we all would have benefited if the Poser manual had told us from the start to organize our Textures folder thusly:

• Textures - Clothing - Leotard
• Bikini
• Biker Shorts
• Dress
• Body Textures - P4 Nude Woman - Nene folder
• Jeanette folder
• Borg Queen folder
• Happyworldland textures
• African-American textures
• P4 Nude Man
• P3 Nude Woman
• P2 Nude Woman
• Victoria
• Animals
• Hair
• Unfiled

Moreover, the install should have created a folder for each clothing part. Instead, now we have designers who think it's real neat to insist on folders named after themselves in the Textures and Geometries folders, instead of a more intuitive, rational organization. Could you kick this idea around at Curious? If my house looked like my Runtime folder, you wouldn't want to visit.

duanemoody- I've actually started doing stuff on Poser on a Mac, to see how the other half lives (actually, more like the other 5%). Anyway, as I'm sure you know, after you use your favorite Mac Zippo extractor you have to run it through Mac Converter and then Mac Installer. I assume the later (or maybe the former) is using the folders as a guide, because I've run my stuff, and some of Zygote's stuff, through it, and everything came out in the right place. Anyway, as to placing stuff, I mostly have a geometry folder with the name of the set I sell, thus the hair, blazer, skirt and shoes that are part of the Posette's suit all go in one folder, and (lately) I have a texture folder for the set, too. I don't like the idea of making a zillion folders, I especially dislike the figure-level folders with one item in it, but I sell my stuff in sets, so I think that isn't too bad of an idea. I'm well aware that Zygote moves my stuff around, but I don't have any control of that!

I stopped using MacInstaller because I thought it wasn't moving bump maps into the proper directories consistently. I'll have to look into it (and the docs) again; MartinC is no dummy and we all owe him a huge debt. I wonder if the ProPack's abandonment of the .RSR/resource fork means the PP files don't have to be converted. So, what led you to the Mac side? I'm not laughing, it's just that Poser's probably one of the only apps out there with no difference between the versions and their output (then again, it's probably the only app out there that doesn't display text).

I have a G3 on my desk at work, and I was getting questions about converting from some of my customers on Mac, so I thought I better actually see how it operates. I teach a lot on Macs, and fix 'em, but I've never actually owned one. I was sort of suprized how Poser runs on a Mac, I can't think of any other Mac App that when you run it you can't see the desktop.

That's part of the guaranteed GUI compatibility. What, the Windows version doesn't do the same (like InstallShield does)? Praise hallelujah, I have seen the light and carefully reread the Poser MacInstaller docs. The problem I was having was with those clowns who refuse to package .BUM files with their archives -- PMI doesn't automatically translate them for you (which is a shame considering the author was one of the first people to figure out the .BUM file format, which we just learned here is merely the Windows .BMP format under another name).