Hi People I know this isnt anything to do with Bryce but I have just had an email asking to use one of my images (http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=744711&Start=19&Artist=marcfx&ByArtist=Yes) called 'Deep Thoughts' for a cover of a book. I am very happy and flattered that one of my images is that good to honour this position but, This is my dilema. This is from the person; "I do not have funds to pay you for "Deep Thoughts" image right now, but I would like to now if there is a way for me to use image as cover page, and if we can create some sort of contract to pay you solid fee from selling when books goes to print from in my country, or from selling on, let say Amazon.com" ---------------------------------------- What I need to know is what do I need to do so that this person doesnt steal my image and or money due?? Any help would be a god send. Thankyou Marc.

hmm... tricky situation... 1st of all get a contract. In the contract I would think it is wise to put that you have to be informed about the number of sales being made on a regular basis. Even if only one sale is made, you have to know. This so you can keep track on if you're being ripped off or not. You can also try and make an agreement on the minimum amount of fees you want to have before cash-out,so you won't get a cheque of $0.50 for every sale or such. So you can say like, you would like your fees to be payed out at the end of the month, provided the total amount is more then say... $20 or something. If the fee is less then $20 the money will move through to the next month. If at any time you think the person is not paying you, you can try and buy a copy of the book yourself. Maybe buy it under a different name as the name under your contract. Then wait and see if you get news that someone bought the book and you have a fee comming in. If you don't get any news, confront the people who are selling the book and ask them to please keep you completely up to date on any sales made. If they really refuse to give you the money due, you can threaten with legal action, and if that doesn't work either, you can consider actually taking legal action if neccesary. That's what I can come up with for now :)

Thanks Ruben This is entirley new to me so this info is of great interest. Another point to think about is of the country that this book is hopefuly printed in. Being a European country it maybe hard to come up with a fair fee as their monitary system is low to mine, so what maybe a low fee to me might be a high price for them......Also, I dont want to offend the person in question as he/she means well and is a friend but, it does need to be sorted out fairly. Choices are going to be hard i think. Thanks again anyway, it is appreciated Marc :)

I'm quite new to it too, but I've been ripped off with a similar form of payment before, so I'm just writing down anything I can think off that would help to prevent the situation I'm in :)

Thankyou. I'm really in two minds over it. Do I give permision so this person can fulfill his/her dreams in writing this book, even though it could be printed without my image or not. I will need to think very hard on this. Thanks again Ruben.

I would ask who the publisher is going to be. A contract with the publisher for cover work is much more common in my experiance and the publisher will pay you directly. If it is the e-book or print on demand vanity press type operation you lose control completely. Although a reputable company would still want signed releases for all artwork. Legal advice is required. You need to know what countries laws are going to govern any contracts.

Thanks Mark. I will be sleeping on this enigma :)

but I would consider whether the person is an established author when pricing my images. Seeing as how you have paid nothing, but the time it takes to do your image, you would be getting free publicity at the very least. I know alot of people are gonna say "my time is worth money", but most of us sit down day after day after day and Bryce without being paid a dime for our efforts. If you get too greedy, you may miss a chance to impress an author and a publisher, both of which could give you future work. If this is your first opportunity, at a book cover, you have nothing to lose by working a deal.

I agree Dan, its the 'not being greedy' thats hard thing because what or how much is an image worth? ........ I'm no Vangoff or De Vinche (sp?) so what would you say if a fair price?

Message edited on: 07/07/2005 14:39

As Dan have already pointed out, free publicity can sometimes pay off far better then a payed job. I cant tell you what to do here, but two things to keep in mind is contract and copyright. ALWAYS sign a contract, and most important of all, make sure that the contract clearly say that YOU hold the COMPLETE copyright for the images used. Since hes asking you to work for free, he really cant refuse on this part.(payed commissions is another story) Also make sure to get credit for the image in the book. As for the pricing, its probably one of the most difficult things, and setting the right fee is far from easy. However, based on own experience, a serious client will not get scared away simply by a suggested fee. 9 times of 10, they will get back to you, telling its slightly out of their budget, and suggest a lower fee. Good luck what ever you decide. :)

Thanks Rudy. I'm having so much information thats its beginning to be easier to make my mind up. One thing I will defenately have is my name in the book...what else happens will be decided over a nights sleep. Thankyou all for your greatly appreciated help in this matter, it certainly helps when people have had experiences before, good or bad. Best wishes Marc :)

y'know..it just occurred to me, that unless he's using one of those 'vanity presses' (they prey on unsigned authors by making them pick up the tab for publishing, etc.), the publishing house should pick up the tab..though they may have their 'in=house' artist

After reading the original post again I am inclined to suggest that since the request is for an existing image you might be just as well off to request a credit in the jacket liner (or whatever the ebook equivalent is) and perhaps a nominal fee for use of the image. If you do not make a significant income from selling artwork then protecting or controlling use of your images is perhaps less significant.

Im sorry marcschum, but ill have to repeat the importance of copyright on images, and this pretty much goes for both freebie work, as well as commissioned ones. If possible, ALWAYS sign a contract that will insure that you will keep all rights for the image. Even if Marc isnt making any money from it now, someday he perhaps will. To name an example, lets say that he gives away all rights for a piece, and six months later, a guy offers $1000 to use that image for a record cover/magazine etc... Ive had people contacting me on some of the oldest stuff posted in my gallery, and im glad i hold the copyright for all those images. It has often payed off. My point is, never give away all rights for an image, if you can license it out. :)

Rudy. Thankyou for your advice yet again and i would also like to ask a question to you. How did you copyright your images on here or your webpage, as i know how easy it is for someone to copy an image from a website or even here to either make it a screen saver or other?.

You dont need to do a thing actually. When you post your image on the web, for example, here at Renderosity, you also have the complete rights for it automatically.
There are also ways to copyright the entire content on a webpage.

Unfortunatly, this is of little help against art thiefs, since they dont care about laws anyway, and the only real protection against art theft is to not post anything on the web at all. Or you can try to make it harder for the thiefs to use it.

This is one of the main reasons i never post or send out any high res files to anyone, unless i see a valid contract, or i know that they are serious.
Posting the images on numerous galleries on the web also helps. Not only because people often recognize images that are stolen, but you also have the posting dates, which is another proof that the images are yours.
Another trick is to "hide" your name in the scenes. Small billboards, house/road signs, a newspaper laying around, things like that.

Message edited on: 07/08/2005 17:21

What a brilliant idea to use your names in the images themselves. I would of never thought of that, thanks Rudy. I suppose the lower res can and will protect the images more and i will think of this when uploading another image, I do notice some people use their name or website address within the image too but, i find it awkward to get the complete view of the artwork, which you are trying to show when you post it. Thankyou again Rudy and everyone else, it is appreciated Best wishes Marc.