As Wardrobe Wizard improves and adds more figures that clothing can be converted between, it's quickly going to be the must-have Poser plug-in for anybody who uses Poser more than casually. It makes me wonder if there will eventually be a Seal of Approval that content creators can apply to their clothing items to show that it's one of the items that cleanly transfers from character to character. That could be a major selling point because it tells potential purchasers that this clothing will be very usable on all their characters. Right now, it's kind of hit or miss until somebody establishes a database that provides the details for doing a good conversion job of their clothing item. That might be another feature a program should add: a means for content creaters to tweak the analysis file so that it allows the full content of their clothing to be converted (so that the user doesn't have to figure out what needs to be ungrouped, etc.) Eventually, there should be a guide for content creators to help them when they're modeling clothing items so that there aren't things that will accidentally mess up a conversion.

Sounds like a wonderful idea to me.

Great idea! "As Wardrobe Wizard improves and adds more figures that clothing can be converted between, it's quickly going to be the must-have Poser plug-in for anybody who uses Poser more than casually." Must have? Only if you have a lot of different figures. I'm using very few figures and all of them have an abundant wardrobe already, so I don't see a point in getting WW at all. If you skip all of the figure hypes and stick to a few well working figures you save lot's of money too and your projects get finished, since you don't need to redo it all the time just because of a new figure.

This is a good idea. You should post it on the WW Yahoo group. :D bB

I did post the topic in the Yahoo group, but did it here, too, because the threads stay together and there's a wider audience that hasn't just bought the program. "Must have? Only if you have a lot of different figures." It all depends what you want to do. I didn't buy the program to convert Victoria clothing to Victoria3 or Stephanie. I'll use the character I have the clothing for. I bought the program for its potential to expand to characters who have almost no wardrobe. Try to find clothing for the PreSchool Millennium Boy (or the newer Mattie for that matter). Even better, the current Yahoo group poll, for which character (or, maybe characters) will be added to the program, includes a bunch of figures for which there will never be much wardrobe. You can use your favorite armor or fantasy outfit on the DAZ Troll or a Sixus1 monster. Throw the morphing fantasy dress on for a House Mousette. The Sixus1 Grey Alien could potentially wear any scifi outfit or even a modern day earth outfit as in "Alien Nation". That's where I want to see the Plug-in going. I'm with you in thinking that there's not much value in converting clothing between very similar figures, but I'll bet that's what most of the customers are doing. Me?--I want to use it on characters that have nothing, like the old P4 skeleton (currently supported). # Troll # Sixus monsters # House Mouse # Furrette and Furaldo # Ug # Poser Pixies # Heavies I have no affiliation with the program, so I don't want this to sound like a commercial. I just believe, as the program starts adding more and more nonhuman characters, that it's really going expand what we do with Poser and make us dig through our runtimes to reuse figures that we became bored with because there wasn't much we could do with them. You'll now be able to create whole alien and fantasy societies with your entire Poser wardrobe. Right now, I've had mixed results with the clothing figures I've converted, but I'm really excited by having a greater variety of nonhuman figures added.

I think this is a great idea too as long as it's done carefully. Unfortunately, I feel that most if not all of my products fall into that range of stuff that doesn't or may not convert well. I don't think that means that it's faulty in some way. I feel I do good work in that department. Also, what about clothing that has extra bodyparts not present in the host figure? I don't thing WW handles that and it doesn't invalidate those products either. Also what do you feel is the level of "acceptability" of a conversion? From my own experience, things got wrinkled badly and smoothing them created warps in the details and angled sections were not handled well. I feel that WW does better with basic-styled clothings. Are you guys getting good conversions with products from the likes of BillyT, AsShanim and Uzilite?

"I think this is a great idea too as long as it's done carefully." It's a tricky thing and, just because a clothing item doesn't get the seal of approval, it doesn't mean there's a thing wrong with that item. It only means that it doesn't convert well given the current limitations of the plug-in. That's one of those areas where PhilC and Kamilche will hopefully be able to address as they keep improving WW's capabilities. I don't know how far they want to go. It would really be great if the program will eventually be able to work with all but a tiny percentage of items. Right now, I don't even know what kind of success rate WW has. I've only tried a couple items and one didn't work well and the other is the PoserWorld P4 Male Armor and it lost the helmet (not named "head"--I wonder if it would keep it if I renamed "helmet" to "head" in the CR2)and has a weird wrist puffy area, but this armor otherwise converted okay. It's going to be tricky making a fair determination of the level of "acceptability" because no matter what kind of rules somebody creates, there is going to be some degree of subjectivity and there are going to be items where the margin between what was borderline acceptable for one will be borderline unacceptable for the other. Whoever makes the final call is going to piss off the creators, whose work falls into the "just missed being acceptable" category because it could cost them some sales. I'm tossing this thought out to see if there has merit and get some dialogue about how to do it effectively. My main interest in the idea is minimizing the amount of time I have to waste attempting to convert items that don't convert well with the current version of the plug-in. Mea_v4 has started a database at the Yahoo group, but there's not much information about how well conversions went or what little tricks may have been needed to do the job or how many characters they tried the conversion on. I'd imagine that a conversion between V1/2 and V3 will go very smoothly, but may not look as good on the MilGirl or SheFreak. Ideally, I'd love to see a website devoted to showing what conversions worked and what didn't, but who has the time and bandwidth to do that? From a practical standpoint, it's more likely that content creators will start pushing how compatible their products are with the plug-in. I could imagine any clothing creator, who gets decent results out of the program, can throw a promotional image up that shows how well WW did on a variety of characters using their product and make a statement that their clothing works well with WW. Maybe that's better than having somebody else make the call. Of course, a clothing creator isn't going to be the most subjective evaluator. I don't know whether PhilC will eventually set up a mutual return links pages with various content creators that shows how well WW works on their clothes and the content sites will link back to WW. It's a good way for somebody to push an older clothing item back on the market if it now works with a dozen other figures. It helps selling more copies of WW. Creators will probably start adding WW analysis files with their downloads since they're not very big and it'll save the buyer the time waiting for the conversion. Of course, a content creator can always just sell a dozen different versions of their product instead of pushing one size fits all. Those are a few more thoughts to chew on.

That Wardrobe Wizard will be a must-have plugin assumes that people who have been using Clothes Converter for a long time are suddenly going to abandon it.

re: " Are you guys getting good conversions with products from the likes of BillyT, AsShanim and Uzilite?" I have tried converting a few Uzlite outfits. M3 Sade outfit to V3 and S3 - somewhat wrinkled looking in both cases (especially the undershirt), but acceptable. V3 Liquid Halo to the Girl - minimal wrinkling/warping; turned out quite nicely.

As far as a subjective result - I'd basically ask myself: If I was the originator of the clothing, would the conversion be resellable? Again I feel that clothing with piping or additional bodyparts is going to fail immediately. I feel that a Seal of Compatibility rather than Seal of Approval sounds better. :) Otherwise it "sounds" like clothes that fail the WW test are sub-par. I know some other clothiers who didn't like the results they were getting, that I know for a fact put out good to great clothing packages. I just wanted to also add that I'm only posting my personal experience with the plugin and it seems that I'm in the minority not happy with results on my own work. I really do feel that what Phil and co created is a sound idea. bjbrown, I'm certainly not abandoning Clothes Converter. I find it to be a very useful tool. Deja-vu, I posted that the other day. ;)

Why not bypass the whole thing and have clothing creators use WW to convert the clothing to the more popular figures before putting it into the marketplace? They'd be able to charge more (if they wanted), and people would get an outfit that fit multiple characters (like BAT's).

***"Must have? Only if you have a lot of different figures. I'm using very few figures and all of them have an abundant wardrobe already, so I don't see a point in getting WW at all. If you skip all of the figure hypes and stick to a few well working figures you save lot's of money"*** HMmm...Well if you are on the PC using the MILL3 figures I guess you are well covered clothing wise :-) I despise Morph injection and use M2 and V2 and **NOT**in there default unmorphed state I have been using WW to Convert M2/V2 existing clothing that has MO morphs, to fit there bodies in its morphed state ive also converted alot of the oldf P4 casual clothing to M2 So WW has ended years of frustation for those of us using figures that are no longer supported with new clothing content we can bargain shop freestuff archives and our own runtimes and bring new variety to our preferred figures

"I feel that a Seal of Compatibility rather than Seal of Approval sounds better. :)" I like that better because that's all the seal would mean, that the clothing product hasn't done anything too elaborate and maintains all the conventional figure names that WardrobeWizard recognizes. Your point is well taken that it, by no means, should be taken as an indication of the quality of the clothing item. "That Wardrobe Wizard will be a must-have plugin assumes that people who have been using Clothes Converter for a long time are suddenly going to abandon it." Actually, I said, "As Wardrobe Wizard improves and adds more figures..." because right now WW isn't a perfect solution and it may be very possible that something else will come down the pike that will blow it out of the water. I'm currently 1-for-1 in my conversions and even the one that worked reasonably well isn't perfect. I have a lot of hope for what it could be, but it's not there yet. I've never used Clothes Converter, so cannot offer any personal experiences about it good or bad. I did look for reviews here and saw a lot, from longtime Poser users, that were disappointed in the amount of work required to do a conversion. Converting the P4 Male armor to the skeleton, in WW, took a few minutes, without any tweaking. Once a conversion has been done, it can readily be applied to any other figure in under a minute. Can Clothes Converter take a converted item and easily apply it to other figures with a button click? It does sound as if Clothes Converter can more readily be used on clothing figures that WW's limitations cannot correctly convert. We might more readily agree that having a solid, easy-to-use, program, that allows using a clothing item on any Poser figure, is a bit of a holy grail for Poser users. At the moment there are a few different programs that each have strengths and weaknesses and none are the magical one-click solution that we all wish we could have. When a clothing item is compatible with WW, it's pretty close to that holy grail. The problem is that there is a lot of stuff that doesn't work perfectly in WW. "Why not bypass the whole thing and have clothing creators use WW to convert the clothing to the more popular figures before putting it into the marketplace?" That will happen and merchants will sometimes already provide fit poses for different characters or multiple CR2s. Nearly every new outfit at PoserWorld provides the same outfits for different characters. The downside of supporting multiple figures is that each included CR2 increases the download size. Imagine how big a download would be with 20 CR2s. A 50K analysis file is a little easier to deal with and let the user do the conversion. The file is small enough that it it adds little overhead to a download that it's bound to be a standard addition to clothing items that are compatible with WW. If a customer doesn't have the program, it's small enough that it won't impact the download of a multi-Mb file. I'd still like to know which clothing items are compatible with WW because it's nice to have an indication that it will be readily usable on other figures. It would influence my buying one item over a similar item.

P4 Skeleton is supported! That is so fun. PhilC said he made it so the clothes WOULD look crumply on the skeleton (like it should). That is too cool. I just picked up the M3 skeleton from Daz and now I want that one supported too! Right now conversions to M3 skeleton look like just like they would is converted to M3. I want my undead army, Darn it! ;) I LOVE the idea of WW support for Furrette, Furaldo, Sixus1 Alien and Werewolves. I want to put the Grey Alien in a Fed suit. LOL. And the Werewolf in Granny PJs. ;) It's amazing to me PhilC and Kam just keep adding and adding the goodies. Too cool. Now about the "WW Seal of Approval." I think that will hard to do, but what merchants can do, is include their dats and show that their clothing can convert in WW well. That will give their clothing items a nice selling point. Just let the end user do the conversions. I can't speak for BillyT, AsShanim and Uzilite conversions, (because I've converting a lot of Egyptian and Japanese clothing) however I can say I've done numerious BatLabs and Poserism conversions, and they converts well (even from women to men!). Clothing with extra body handles and bones will need to be converted in Advanced as "Unwelded, Unregrouped Figure :D Finally M3 gets good Japanese themed clothes! =D~ bB

Another thought I had... Clothing makers can provide a .dat of the their clothing, and then maybe include a simple tutorial for to convert for the best results when the clothing has tricky JPS, body handles, or extra bones. It also might be a KILLER plus if the clothing maker includes correct JP pose settings for their clothes. This will great, because buyers won't have to download a billion already converted clothes, won't have to be a JP guru to fix JPs on various figures, and including a JP correction pose should not add too much to a download. JP fixers would be handy on tops with long billowy sleeves, and billowy pants too. bB

"I just picked up the M3 skeleton from Daz and now I want that one supported too!" The Millennium Skeletons can already take conforming clothing from M3 & V3. The downside is that they can wear the clothes, but it looks as if the original figures are still in them, so they're defying gravity and have musculature and it doesn't look right. The solution would be to save the clothing as an Obj, import it, and use the cloth room to drape the clothing over the skeleton. A lot, but not all clothing (especially clothing that have solid interiors) cannot be used as dynamic cloth because there cannot be any intersections between the cloth and the figure before the calculation starts.

If the end users are happy with the results then I feel they've made good on their investment with the plugin. I would like to see some vanilla, close-up renders of the conversions that you guys and gals are getting. Just some torso shots at 600x600 or higher. I'm simply curious at what is generally considered to be in the realm of successful. I would assume that logically smaller figure to bigger figure conversions are more successful as the plugin is stretching outward. wolf's image looks fairly decent here, but I'm not sure about that skeleton image due to the size of the render but it appears to be warping issues throughout, most notably the sleeves. Another thought I have is that since there are far more V3 clothes, there will be more larger to smaller conversions as SP, Aiko 3 and the Kids lack as many clothes and are relatively smaller figures.

Here's a hair conversion I did back in SR4. bB

Here's a very difficult-to-convert top, V3 Miko by BatLab. I did the sleeves by hand, the rest is WW SR4. bB

Ooops, here it is

Yeah, I'd see where you'd have to adjust the jps on those sleeves but the conversion in this case looks sound - I don't have that outfit to eyeball it ;) But that still would be too much for quite a few end users to do. So, if I were to be picky (just devil's advocate) about the Seal of Approval (or whatnot), it would fail a conversion as the end user would be faced with adjusting joints. That's another consideration - is the Seal to be based on one-click-done solution? That's why some were claiming that they liked WW over CC. The hair looks good, except the ends towards the front. Now, something like that could be converted with scaling or a magnet kit with litle to no distortion.

I'd have to lean towards one click with instructions on how to get it right if there are any neat tricks that don't require much effort to get a good conversion. Oddly, there hasn't been any discussion in the Yahoo group. I guess neither PhilC or Kamilche would ever want to invest the time to grade what others are doing. I'm sure that clothing creators, if their stuff converts smoothly, will want to advertise that fact. Decent sample images will go a long way into showing how well they work.