Am I correct in remembering that the first product to use body handles was Anton's Egyptians (for M1 or 2 and V1 or 2) at DAZ?

I'm not sure whether it was the Anton's Egyptians or not but it was definitely something of Anton's.

Yeah, and I think the Egyptians were the first product to use them, but I'm not 100% sure. I remember getting that set and thinking "What the ....?????" LOL NOW, what would we do without them?

Well the first appearance of body handles that I noticed here was after I turned 40, and started to put on a little weight..... Oh! you mean POSER body handles??? >Doh!<

ROFL

I live to serve... ;)

I thought it was the Morphing Fantasy Dress...but I'm old and have a bad memory. :-)

That's the same problem I'm having rockets. 8-D

The first mention of body handles I can find is in reference to Anton's Morphing Fantasy Beard. Bodyhandles were also in his Spywear outfit. This goes back to Mar 2002.

Anton used the body handles when he sold products at BBay before selling his older stuff to Daz for the PClub. I think Spywear was 1st time in a product that I remmeber. When the V3 Morphing Fantasy Dress (MFD) he did came out a lot of products started doing the technique, I think V3 and MFD made it popular.

The First instances as they are currently known, were about three and a half years ago.

The Egyptians for V2/M2(February/March 2002)
SPyware for V2/Stephanie(March 2002)
Gypsies & Genies for V2 (April 2002)

Then I included it when I built these V3 PlatinumCLub items items
V3 Morphing Mertail
V3 HoodedCloak 1
V3 Morphing Fantasy Dress
V3 Morphing Starlet Dress
V3 Morphing Coacktail Dress

I am sure there are others I am forgetting.

Daz just claimed that I don't deserve credit, but he didn't mention any name/product specifically as usual. I heard Vicki Pro might use a form of Bodyhandles. Maybe that is why.

Message edited on: 07/19/2005 14:23

Now that rob mentions it, I think there was a BBay item that used it, but I can't rememebr what or which. Was soooo many years ago now.

Well that's why I wanted to make sure ... I was about to mention their introduction in the book and wanted to get the proper reference correct. Thanks. 8-)

Actually my folder has Michael's Morphing Fantasy Beard as being February 2002. SO hard to remember which was released first.

Hmmm ... OK. I think I purchased the fantasy beard AFTER the Egyptians (but that's no surprise, because anything Egyptian always goes in my shopping cart first regardless! LOL). But I think I did get the beard shortly after that.

BL Render also identifies the beard as being first to use the handles. Best body handles-related question asked on this board; "Why are there red spikes attacking my character?"

I would say the V2 Spyware Package or the M2 Morphing Fantasy Beard if you want to list one specifically.

lol Nomuse

For the ignorant among us, WHAT are body handles?

Sometimes when you get clothing, hair, or figures, you'll see extra parts that might be cone-shaped or round. These are extra parts that help you move or pose the clothing. They are typically used for skirts or other clothing or hair that flows nice, but lately folks have been using them for body parts as well. The DAZ Morphing Fantasy Dresses are among the items that use body handles.

Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/support/tutorial/index.php?id=83

Hmm. The date on the tutorial is not correct. It is a whole year off. :( That Tutorial was originally done in march of 2002, and not 2003. I did the tutorial at the same time as Spyware. The date might have been changed during a site reformat.

That's OK, I did go back to my archives and found the Egyptians, and the Morphing Fantasy Beard. The dates go back to Feb/March 2002, and the first messages in the Rendo archives go back to that date as well. Thanks for helping! I knew the Egyptians dress was close to being the first because I remember how confused I was with all those red spikes. LOL

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=635025

Crosspost. Sorry. :)

A downloadable product named "Spywear." Ouch. /I own it, too

Anton, did you invent body handles? Coldrake

Hoping to avoid a situation here, please let me interject ... my question was raised because I am currently working on some text regarding how to use clothing, and body handles are a feature that we find quite often in clothing nowadays. Now .. in order to get the history right, I posed the question because it was mentioned in another thread that there might be more history to it than I was aware of. I remembered the Egyptians outfit as the first product that I used with "body handles." I don't recall any others before that, as I got the two other products mentioned after the Egyptians. Anyway, I digress ... if we can keep the discussion centered around the history of how this came about, that would be great. I didn't raise the question to put anyone on the spot, I was just looking for some historical information. Thanks in advance for any positive contributions. 8-)

Coldrake, there was some discussion of ghost parts as far back as 2000, in this post it seems that bloodsong is even suggesting the possibilities of something like bodyhandles. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PoserTECH/message/873

Bloodsong's book "Secrets of Fihure Creation with Poser 5" Page 130 quote: " "Poser Bones," as I called them are good for adding....This concept can also take the place of morphs. Anton Kisiel took the "Poser Bones" idea and developed it into "Body Handles"....In Anton's Long Flowing Fantasy Beath, for example, the hair...." Book 1st published in 2003.

Sorry about all the typeo. Was trying to type quickly. can't this be put to rest already?

yeah I found this post where anton talks about the concept http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PoserTECH/message/1108

Deecey, Bloodsong in the Secrets book on pg 130 has the text I posted before, as well as a picture and explaination of body handles. Anton is also thanked in the front of the book, as well as other poser people that have helped. Anyway, thought the text, references and info would help you with your question.

I find it very disturbing why Dan and wdupre (both Daz) are so hell bent on trying to remove credit from me for Bodyhandles.

I don't remember ever seeing anyone go out of their way to cast doubt, after almost four years.

Dan alluded to Wdupre's statement in the Daz vs Poser thread, and obviousy is here in typical, sneaky fashion, to sew seeds.

My question is why? Why go so far out of the way to try and actually try to discredit something I was so excited to come up with.

What's next. You want to try and dig back and find someone who did Sub-Dividing MATs before I did as well?

Sad, Sad, Sad. But nothing suprising. Is Dan going to come in this thread also to "Clarify and enlighten"? I found his recent comment in brackets quite intruiging.

I find it odd that daz always follows me into threads or topics around me. Yet whine and cry to mods if the opposite occurs.

I am sorry if I sound annoyed, but this is BS and quite obvious.

Coldrake, as far as I am aware, in there current incarnation, yes I did.

wdupre, go stir pots in the Daz forums.

I only hope, some of what I been trying to tell people, is starting to make sense.

Message edited on: 07/19/2005 22:33

Sorry, I wasn't trying to stir any pots. the question was about the history of bodyhandles, I had a few links that bore on the subject. It's that simple.

Of course you were. I have already notifed you, Dan, and all Daz mods to avoid me and topics about me. You are well aware and people have seen my requests at Poser Pros and here. I only hope that those, who care, are paying attention.

Thanks for the input, everyone, I think I have the gist of it ... It appears as though there had been some discussion on the possibilities of "ghost parts" for a while. And that Anton devised a way of simplifying it for the masses, in the form of what we know now as "body handles." My apologies to all for bringing up a topic that would raise some temperatures, I just needed clarification. 8-)

Funny, it looks like you were mentioning DAZ first. You can mention them, but they can't come in and respond just because it's you posting? That's ludicrous.

Funny, only four threads is four years.

Several of my old products are still there. Mention at times is unavoidable

There are times, unavoidable, where clarification is neccesary when misinformation is being spread.

Message edited on: 07/20/2005 00:02

I don't know the first application of Body Handles to a figure, but they are on the Sara character produced by 3D Universe, which came out in December 2003. Little cynical old me suspects that the uses for the actual human figure are limited to certain exaggerated sexual characteristics, male or female. Though the thought of the male equivalent to Sara's body handles is, I expect, something that could make a guy nervous. On this whole DAZ v. Anton business, I just wonder how many of us adequately document our own bright ideas.

I'm locking this thread before a firestorm begins. MorriganShadow Poser Moderator.