Attached Link: http://www.3dluvr.com/marcosss/morearni/tkm23.jpg

Do you think this is a photo? Read the caption at the bottom...

Attached Link: http://www.3dluvr.com/marcosss/morearni/

Here's the link to the "Arnold" renders...

Yup, radiosity has ray tracing beat hands down. I've known that for some time now. :)

Holy Bleep! Bleep H. Bleep! Bleepin' A! OK, what desktop software supports this kind of rendering?

Well, Caligari Truespace, for one. Lightscape for another. Any program that uses the top end Lightworks rendering engine. The best stuff I've seen uses BOTH radiosity and ray tracing. -SMT

I've never been interested in "realism". Wouldn't it be great if there was something in that scene that couldn't possibly be real but looked it? What's the point in duplicating photography?

Congratulations! You've taken the argument full circle! Just over 150 years ago art critics seeing photography in museums for the first time made exactly the same comment. Seriously, though, most new media begin by imitating their parent medium. Film started by imitating theatre, television started by imitating movies. This is a good thing. Over time, the new medium begins to flex its muscles and start doing things the parent couldn't/didn't, but those 'things' don't usually manifest themselves until after the imitation of the parent reaches its creative limits. Personally, I'd like to push the envelope on what can be done with a desktop computer. That is a valid challenge, esp. with low to medium resolution (compared to Hollywood SFX) meshes. First, achieve the technical feat, then apply artistic technique to it.

Like they say, you gotta know the rules to break them. I like pushing the envelope myself, not for the sake of realism it self, but to create something that doesn't otherwise exsist. If I want to do something more abstractilly expressive I prefer using brushes pencils pastels ect. The point is that the computer is a tool, a means to an end, and as any tool you don't want to be limited by it, you want to be it's master and not vice versa. Anything that helps me get closer to what I want to achive is a welcome improvement.

There's a big difference between grainy B&W photos and modern color film and lighting techniques. B&W looks nothing like reality to me ;-)

True... even among the colorblind, monochromats are a tiny minority...

Keep in mind- High Dynamic Range images are much better in quality than current Radiosity renders in Truespace and most other desktop software. Currently only MAX 4 and Lightwave 6.5 support true HDR renders... Obviously, rendering a "photo" of a typical backyard work table is just a subtle joke- The stuff that really impresses are the realistic animations of Dinosaurs or extra-terrestrials. We've all seen "Jurrasic Park" a few years back- well now (if you are a beta-tester) you can do it on a desktop computer at home... Other applications- (my personal favorites)creating historic scenes of ancient times- these scenes will be as realistic as if you were actually there taking the picture... Final BIG POINT- MONEY! This summer the "Final Fantasy" movie will be released and it will probably electrify many people in the Poser Community with its photo-realism- based upon the trailers released so far...

If you're going to make your 3D look like a photo, make sure there's something in that photo that no camera could ever take a picture of... The movie "Fight Club" is a good example of using ultra realistic CGI to "film" in places that a real camera couldn't go. -JH.

can't anyone explain what does "push the envelope" mean in plain english. TIA.

JeffH is right, after imitating real thing, the new tech should create something imaginable or does not exist, like we create dino in movie, when actually saw the dino? Making thing looks real is a western paradigm, sculpter, painting, designing.. now CG. CG is great to achieve. If you look back the films in the past, not long ago, just a decade, you should see why realistic is such an issue here, buddy.

"Push the Envelope" comes from the era of flight-testing. The most famous "envelope pusher" was Chuck Yeager, who flew the X-15 rocket and broke the sound barrier. Many "experts" predicted he would destroy himself and the X-15 upon breaking the sound barrier- but Yeager (as a test pilot)wanted to "push the envelope" of aircraft-jet areodynamics- anyway- that's my LONG explaination...

BTW- the OBVIOUS commercial use for HDR rendering is for the creation of "Virtual Sets" in movies. A good deal of the scenes in "Matrix" were done this way. Someone has to create the "mundane" (ordinary-looking) sets so that extra-ordinary actions can take place. The "special effects" look much more exciting in the context of an "ordinary" scene...

Thanks Fox, this is knowledge for me, I have seen this phrase for years, but can't seem to find it in any dict. So I think it means "beyond the limit" in some extent, ne'est pas ?

Peut-re " au deldes limites connues " ou " au deldes limites prues "...

beyond the limit or beyond the limits, got it. muchas gracias:)

i take it "beyond the acceptable(recognizez, cognitive) limit" or " beyond the limits pr..ues(sorry I can't read that as it has decode problem here)" merci beaucoup

Attached Link: http://www.3dluvr.com/subagio/domelight/HDRdome.html

About radiosity... It seems, the interesting and realistic results can be received and on other technology ;) Very serious method - global illumination. And its imitation ... Look this page: http://www.3dluvr.com/subagio/domelight/HDRdome.html The same results can be received and in many others 3D the programs (Cinema4D, for example)

Attached Link: http://www.projectmessiah.com/

Poserpro- Mucho Alta Vista... (on-line language translator)... Yes, the "Cat is out of the Bag" (Le Chat Vamoose La Casa...) and (Vladamir has left the Building, Comrades...) Mad.s- you are correct, sir- more people are jumping on the HDR bandwagon and there are a number of tutorials and file downloads for MAX, Lightwave, etc. But I think some of the earlier commenters think that this effect is "Radiosity", which it is of course NOT. (I'm sure you also know that...) The commercial version of the "Arnold" renders is now called "Messiah" and is in beta-testing. See Link...

messiah:render - Formerly known by its code name, "Arnold", messiah:render is a full-featured global illumination renderer easily capable of producing the most photo-real renders you've ever seen. The new technologies in messiah:render are years ahead of everything else out there. Not only that, but we'll be adding compatibility with Maya, SoftImage, and 3D Studio Max!