I am pretty much new here again after taking about 4 years off due to bad things happening (better now, thank you). My question is (and I cannot find this in the FAQ's so please forgive me if I overlooked it) is: What are Injection morphs (.INJ)? What do they do exactly? and Why do you personally like/loathe them?

Injection morphs are seperate morph files for figures that you can load (inject) into the figure to use when you need them. I dont like them because they seem like an unnecessary extra chore that you have to do to use the figure, I know that they help to save memory by only injecting the morphs that you need, but they still seem like a waste of time to me. It is partly why I dont like the newer daz figures.

To be honest, I hate injection morphs! With V2 and M2 all the morphs were there. Now it takes me forever to load the INJ's if I want to change my character looks (and who doesn't?).

An edict to all who abhore Injection Morphs:

Hear Ye! Hear Ye! Thou canst inject all morphs into a figure. Verily I say unto you, that you mayeth save that figure to the grand Poser Figure library after said injection. And forthwith, thou shalt never need to inject morphs on the morrow.

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Post Scriptum: So, where is the problem? If you like to conserve memory, as I do, you can only inject the required morphs for the character. If you hate injecting individual morphs and would rather have them all at your immediate disposal, inject them all and save that figure for continuous pleasure.

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Message edited on: 07/31/2005 19:40

kuroyume0161 wrote: "Hear Ye! Hear Ye! Thou canst inject all morphs into a figure. Verily I say unto you, that you mayeth save that figure to the grand Poser Figure library after said injection. And forthwith, thou shalt never need to inject morphs on the morrow." I keep telling people that over and over and over again, but for some reason, nobody listens....... Methinks they must have some ulterior motive. ;) Coldrake

The RR versions of M3 and V3 include all the morphs ( traditional, non-injection morphs). Much easier to use, IMO. Now if only they'd come out with RR versions of the other Unimesh figures.

Duh! (slaps head) face is red. Why did I forget that little trick? Silly me went and did it the hard way, saving to PZ3 files and such. Now I can do it right... :0) Thanks!!!

It doesn't make sense for a figure to carry all those un-necessary morphs. It's like someone who walks around, wearing all the clothes in their closet. It makes sense only to use what you need.

The problem with injecting all the morphs is that you end up with a cr2 that is a huge sloppy mess and it still has blank dials.

Well, yes. The Unimesh figures with Morph Injection support have many more morphs than their earlier counterparts. The resulting CR2s are about 100MB (uncompressed). But if you hate injecting and removing morphs, that is the only solution. The blank dials are necessary. These are 'user' dials for custom, third-party morph injections and Daz3D morph extensions. If you don't plan on using them, you could remove them from the CR2, but caution is suggested.

Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/support/faq/index.php?id=119

Daz link about INJ for M3 and V3. Plus: only load morphs your using and save memory. Minus: !Daz file cannot be moved. Tons of +/- Injection files in the runtime for EACH model that has injection. Sometimes slow to inject (V3 full INJ takes 10 minutes on my computer) Yes you can INJ all morphs for each model and save to runtime to save time injecting but that adds yet another entry in my already bloated runtime. When I use a model that uses injections I have to be very patient and it slows down my creativity.

I do hate inj based figures morhps. Why? It can take ages for those things to open and they cost money. They're akward to use, demand more memory and cost a lot of time to use especially on multi-figured scenes. You have to go over the same process for each seperate figure and that's just a waste of time. To me it's just another great idea to charge customers more money.

Once I have loaded the INJ morph files, providing that I do not move the files with the deltas in thatm (!ACHILLES,!MICHAEL,Etc....whatever) can I then move the Characters around in the character file and move the INJ files and MAT files around in the Pose Library to organize it better?

Yes, you can move them anywhere within their respective Library folder (Character, Pose, Face). But, as you mention, don't move the Injection/Remove 'base' files. Like geometries, they are accessed by exact path+file references. Speaking about that, I cannot understand the reason why Daz decided to put these files into "libraries" instead of in the "Runtime" folder under something like "Inj_Rem" in the same way that geometries are in "Geometries" and textures are in "Textures". Or, at the least, organize them all into an "Inj_Rem" folder in "libraries" to reduce the confusiont that these all create.

Yes, if Daz had put those pesky files into their own library it would be great. That's the problem, they take up all the Pose folder space and that means less pose files can go there. But, can you put your PZ@ files elsewhere and still accesss them? If so, then I could clean my PP4 folder better. Can I put my Pose files in say, charactwers or somewhere that has less folders and still use them? That is my main gripe.

I wouldn`t put poses into the characters folder, they wont work. You can put them in the camera folder and I think that the hand folder will work.

If you move the INJect folders into the Camera or other Library, that becomes cluttered. Plus you need to rename the file extensions on all the items. Too much work. DAZ can't put the stuff into their own Library, because DAZ must work with the Libraries that Poser offers.

If you move the INJect folders into the Camera or other Library, that becomes cluttered. Plus you need to rename the file extensions on all the items. Too much work. DAZ can't put the stuff into their own Library, because DAZ must work with the Libraries that Poser offers.

This is getting confusing. When I say "Inject/Remove" base files, I mean the files in the "!Daz" folders which are referenced by the Inj/Rem poses. These do not, and I repeat, do NOT need to be in the "libraries" folder. They must be because this is how Daz3D decided to implement the process. But it would have been much better if they had been placed outside of the "libraries" folder so that you don't have: !ApoGraphix INJ !AwfulSoul !B-Man !BATLABs !CDI !DAZ !NWS !XFX APMaxInjCntr camera character face hair hand Icon KBK light materials Pose props Purr3D Injections when it should be: camera character face hair hand light materials Pose props InjRem - put all Inject/Remove base files here! Get it?

But your example still has the !DAZ files in the Libraries folder. You just don't have the "!" mark.

Yes, it does, but it could be moved outta there (if that were the way that they set it up in the first place). This is just one option. And, no, it isn't just missing the "!". Try ALL of those INJ/REM folder (the top 9 plus KBK and Purr3D) ALL in that one folder, just like you have ALL figures in one "character" folder. ;) There is no reason (at all) for the injections to be in the "libraries" folder since they are not directly accessed by Poser, but indirectly through a "readScript" which as far as I know, doesn't care where the path leads to get to the files - as long as they're correct - surprisingly, just like Textures and Geometries. The current practice is a bad one - just wait until you have seventy five injection folders in your library. Don't complain to me... ;0)

The XFX channel definition libraries are libraries, so being under the libraries folder heirarchy makes perfect sense. This is not a situation like the Pose folder, where it affects the usability of the user interface of Poser, so why is it a big deal? BTW, for the record, the !XFX library does not contain injection poses. It contains CR2 channel definitions so that Aeon figures can be updated to include new channels without modifying the base CR2. XFX injection files are contained in the pose itself, rather than being seperated, as we saw no reason to seperate out the injection information itself.

I have the deepest most passionate HATRED!!!!! of the INJ/REM/CHAN/VIS/DELTA HORSH SH*T!!!! to me it is patently ABSURD that to get a fully functional, morphable "unimess" figure one has to install over ONE HUNDRED support files this really hit my sore spot the other day when I was browsing my runtime while manually installing some Cute free V2 based ladies I found over at 3D communue..............CR2-PNG-OBJ- end of story DAZ's morph injection Crap was to sell Old "pinhead" to the lowest common denominator ( people who were running old 266 MHZ Win95 PC's with 256 meg of RAM.) today even the most casual weekend user of poser is probably running a better system than that As many know I was a very vocal critic of Apollo Maximus and his anatomical structure But i later decided that,with the morpheus maximus package, his face options were unique and different enough to warrant him an appearance in my animation short film.(fully dressed) but more so than that he is not an inj/rem/chan/vis/delta figure and on that principle alone he deserves everyones support. and I have yet to see anyone complaining how Apollo is "bogging down" their system and how nice it would be to "uninject"some of his morphs to lighten the load. you will NEVER ...EVER convince me that offering a stripped down figure needing over one hundred support files AND a "dial cleaner"utility to clear out the MESS left by the chan/vis/delta's, is somehow making life easier for the user...NEVER!!! DEATH TO "UNIMESS"!!!! LONG LIVE MIKE&VICKY2!!!! :-)

The thing is that a fully injected V3 is unmanagable. People are still asking for a higher resolution one which would be even more unmanagable but it is possible to do that one and you never have to look at the INJ files again. It is just 120MB for the figure alone. Maximus has its strengths but it also doesn't have nearly the amount of morphs that the unimesh figures do and it doesn't have the poly's on the back since no one renders the figure from the back (to paraphrase the creator, not meant as any slight) so the does have a smaller poly count. I am not saying the unimesh figures need to be as polygon heavy but people are asking for even more polys even how. The low res versions have all of the morphs included though so maybe that is an option (even though I know you hate them and will never use them). I know you won't really change your thoughts but there is a reasoning behind the INJ morphs. Even with today's machines it isn't fun to render or save 120MB figures. Though that is a posibility if you want.

And this is Poser's "Achilles Heel"! No sane human figure creator in the business proper uses straight, high-polygon meshes. They use a low polygon base mesh enhanced with NURBS, SPD, or some other form of mesh smoothing subdivision. Then the weight of all of those polygons is only virtual in the editor and renderer. I've seen some incredible figures done for games with extremely low polygon counts that, with proper smoothing and subdivision, look as good as or better than the higher polygon figures. This has been stated before. eF should definitely entertain the idea of implementing something like this in the future. Support the 'old' polygon-only meshes as before, but bring in technology that will reduce polygon counts while actually creating far more realistic figures. 64-bit addressing is no excuse to go, "Wow! We now have 18 quintillion bytes of memory, so 500M polygon figures will hardly impact memory!" That just won't work. The impact is also in storage, processor speed limitations (unless Poser is suddenly going to support multi-processor multi-core HT cpus), etc.