Just a reminder to people who comment in the galleries. Today I got a comment on one of my recent uploads in the Product Showcase gallery. The comment was "Ummmmmmm NO". I didn't understand and IMed the poster asking for an explanation. They were kind enough to delete their old comment and add a new one that gives the general idea that they don't like the outfit/combination of items in the render. No advice, just a fairly firm statement that they didn't like the set. That's cool. The outfit is a Chippendale's type stripper outfit that's a bonus for another set I'm working on. It's not to everyone's taste. However, there was no advice for improvement. No suggestions on what to add or change. Just a negative comment and a bad ranking. If you're going to comment negativly, please give some kind of advice for improvement. If you don't like a picture or a set, then make a suggestion. Especially if you feel the need to add a bad ranking.

Fair statement and well said! thefixer, poser coord.

I agree. Well stated. I have made it a habit, not just here, but when posting anything that is meant for some type of review, to specifically ask for constructive criticism for negative responses. This has worked out really well for me. (I guess sometimes people just need to be reminded how to be polite ;-)

I teach "mamagment skills" for a living and one thing that is standard is to tell someone if they are going to give feedback (positive or corrective) to be Specific in what you say. Talk about what you like and why. And be specitfic about what doesn't work and why. this works at home too: " I love you because. . . "

From someone who doesn't even have a gallery of her own, I'd say hermajesty's comments were rude and uncalled for.

Oh not the "peep has no gallery" again... I agree that it's rude and I totally agree that the poster should, as it is STATED post constructive criticism and not just a comment like "U Suxx0rz" or however the lingo is s'posed to be nowadays... OTOH we can't just dismiss people because they haven't got a gallery of their own. That person MIGHT be working solely with animation. Or they might be new to Poser (but that doesn't mean they're not entitled to an opinion, does it?) pdxjims, I love your outfits! This is no exception!

"OTOH we can't just dismiss people because they haven't got a gallery of their own. That person MIGHT be working solely with animation." I agree, and have been saying this for years. ;-) I only started posting stuff here upon the release of P6. I never posted my P5 or P4 stuff, except for animation. Being that the animation gallery here is basically a stepchild of the still image galleries, it doesn't get much of the same feature richness that the other galleries have. For instance, you can't leave comments or ratings on animations, and if someone has added you to their "favorite artists" list, the ebot thing will NOT notify them if you upload an animation. I really wish they'd enhance the Animation Outlet's features a little.

Well when they've been asked to post a constructive critism and all they can do is badmouth your work, then no. I don't think they have a right to their opinion without proving they're capbable of doing better. As a general rule I don't like the "You have no gallery so you have no voice" mentality either, but in certain cases. I'd say it's very appropriate, such as in this case.

Message edited on: 08/19/2005 17:09

Attached Link: wot he/she(?) wrote on mine......

Yeah, and the ego of choosing "Hermajesty" as a screen name just begs to be slammed.

"then no. I don't think they have a right to their opinion without proving they're capbable of doing better." I can understand that. However, by that logic, anyone who does extraordinary work has the right to flippantly tell everyone else that they suck? :-0 No, it shouldn't make a difference if they display their work here or not. Everyone should just show common sense in their comments, good or bad. The problem is, not everyone has common sense.

Who said logic had anything to do with it? When people are rude, they deserve rudeness back. It's an emotional reaction to emotional posts and comments which were left with the sole purpose of getting an emotional response out of you. I'll leave logic to Mister Spock. In anycase, my point is that Rude People do not deserve my consideration when leaving comments like the ones on his image. Even less than no consideration when they don't have any money of their own where their mouths should be to draw on the allusion that they shouldn't have an opinion if they don't have the talent. IE: "Put your money where your mouth is bub! Them's Fightin' woids!" While even having Talent doesn't give people the right to be rude, it at least let's you know that they have some right to their opinion, artistically. Even if they are talentless at giving actual critical comments instead of just useless rude ones.

I don't feel a need to comment on all images that I look at, or even most images for that matter. If an image really, really captures me, then I'll make a comment. Those that don't, or that I don't like, I look at and just move on. Art is subjective, so just because I don't like it, or it does nothing for me, doesn't mean that it's not good and that others will feel about it the same as I do. We all have different tastes and likes and dislikes, so who are we to tell someone that their art stinks?

I find it funny. People complain because no one leaves comments. People complain because people leave gushing comments for other artists. People complain if some one leaves a less than stellar comment. Though I do not have a gallery, I avoid leaving comments for it seems the only ones that do not get you in trouble are the ones you do not type. It seems that there will always be someone not happy with any comment made in the gallery. I have come to believe that the sheer fact asking for public comments and rankings is bad for galleries. The National Gallery does not have a list of comments below each image. Artist normally are looking to bring out various emotions. Just having a bunch of "Oh, it is nice" Comments would be classified as a failure for many artists. People become artists to express themselves, not to please the masses. If they do, normally they are not happy with their work. Artist generally like it when their art causes a wide range of emotions. If people want constructive advice, there should be a WIP. Once it is in a main gallery, it should be open for any opinions, not advice on how to improve the image. Personally, I do not think either Ummm no or Ummm yes are worthy comments. I also do agree the eye-patch and stripper outfit do not go together. It is kind of like a Stripper Cop wearing Black leather Chaps. It just looks like he forgot something during a costume change (Oh, look Frank forgot to take of the Eye-patch after the last set once again). If a stripper had a need for an eye patch, he most likely would have one that went with each costume. Maybe one with a Stud in it for the bow-tie outfit, something to dress it up. I also agree that the attempt to make the skin look like it has a shine to it has made it plastic looking. (But I also think that is a real hard one to get with Poser.)

None of my business, of course, but if you checked through the member's 'Artists' page, you'd see a lot of forthright comments on a wide variety of pictures, often encouraging and appreciative. Sometimes not. But freedom of speech and all that .... To imply that someone has a problem with a particular variety of sexual expression because they didn't like a render, or is a raging egomaniac because of the forum name they've chosen, shows an uncharacteristic and temporary loss of humour on the part of the relevant posters above. Come on guys .. let's celebrate diversity, not get all mean.

Just thought I would step in here and offer y'all some popcorn.............. Ahem!

Now I don't find Ratcloset's comment mean. He at least explained why he thought those clothing combo's didn't go together in an intelligent manner. As for calling "Hermajesty" egotistical just because of her screen name, I'm not. I'm calling her egotistical because of her high and mighty attitude when commenting on other peoples works IN CONJUNCTION with her screen name which implies she expect's to be bowed down to like any other drama queen. The fact that she went back and changed one rude comment to one just as rude gives me insight into her character more than anything else. She just doesn't get it or doesn't want to get it when it comes to giving constructive criticism! I find nothing "Humourous" about rude people. I don't think you know me well enough to say whether that's characteristic of my personality or whether it's dead on.

And I always thought the name was pronounced Herma Jesty! I know there are some good constructive comments throughout the Galleries. I was refering to the threads in the various forums that crop up from time to time where someone has an issue with comments they receive or worse still do not receive and someone else has. (still have not figured that one out...) To just post to those artists you consider tolerant to any comment does not cut it with me. Therefore I normally avoid commenting, or even looking at Galleries anymore.

The purpose of critique is to encourage growth, improvement, etc. Mentioning the stuff that could use improvement is fine, but you should also mention what WORKS, even if it's something simple like the lighting, the composition, etc. Tell people what they're doing right, and they can keep doing it. Tell them what can be improved, and they may try to improve it. Just saying, "It sucks," well, that's hardly going to improve anything. And for the record, "OMG, it's perfect! Fabulous! Best I've ever seen!" isn't likely to help much, either. ;-) bonni

"When people are rude, they deserve rudeness back." Right. We should be rude to rude people in order to teach them that rudeness is wrong. "Ummmmmmm NO" I understand people's frustration but if it is a "Gallery," since when do visitors to an art gallery have to say how they would have done something differently? I don't like a lot of Picasso's work. Do I have to explain how I would paint it before I have a right to say that? If that's what you want, then you need to ban all non gallery contributors from the galleries. Incest anyone?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=1002983

I am looking into all of this as you write - please give me a little time to get it all straightened out Thanks Angel1 Poser Coordinator

Who peed in her cornflakes? Good work, PapaBlue, I really like that character & pose. Jim, I'll be buying your set for Apollo Max just as soon as I see how much change I've got left in my piggy bank from that last trip to Daz Land. Don't worry about the eye patch. I've worn one myself and couldn't give a hang whether or not it matched my outfit, as long as it was comfortable and did the job was all that really mattered.

::shakes head & rolls eyes at screen:: "Not worth a comment", eh? Then why the heck did she even bother? ::sigh:: Beats the heck outta me.

Message edited on: 08/19/2005 22:15

Imckenzie - For the record, I never said anyone should follow my example. Fact of the matter is, Hermajesty probably hasn't even read the forums here or s/he'd have interjected by now, so you can hardly say I've been rude back to her/him. I've just pointed out what I percieve to be flaws in her character based on her gallery comments and her choice of screen names. That and just how much weight I'd give to anything she has to say based on those perceptions, which is absolutely none whatsoever.

"Not worth a comment", eh? Then why the heck did she even bother? Heheheh, yeah, I thought the same thing. Obviously this is someone just trying to stir the pot. And I wouldn't bet that "Hermajesty" is necessarily a "she". bonni

Checked this: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.ez?Who=hermajesty I draw your attention to the last comment on her Favorite Artists list.

LOL I would have never thought of making Apollo the Swashbuckler into a Chippendale. When I saw them, over in NY, they were called dancers, even though yes they stripped down to those little ditties that pdxjim shows. There was always a theme and it was actually quite a choreographed show given, besides those outstanding male bodies. Don't ever think I saw them do swashbucklers or pirates but the eye patch, boots and everything made perfect sense to me.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.ez?Who=hermajesty

I did read it, which is why I'm so confused since the other (troll-like)remarks don't seem to fit. Maybe it is a case of poorly chosen words. Or maybe "hermajesty" had a bad day, who knows?

Honestly, I didn't want to bring anyone up by name. I don't think the person who left the comment is a bad person. I do think that they don't understand the "constructive" part of "criticism" sometimes. It always bothers me when someone leaves any comment that isn't constructive. A constant "That's Great" is nice, but it doesn't help you improve. I try to leave something whenever I comment, good or bad. If I like a piece, I try to say whay I like it. I was posting in Product Showcase, so obviously I was seeking comments on the product and doing a little advance advertising. Good comments would have been that the set needed more texturing, or that a part of the set didn't fit the style of the rest of the set, and suggested substitutions or ideas for improvement. I've gotten a couple of those later in the thread. I'm also IMing one of them with an explanation as to why I did a couple of things the way I did. Hermajesty is capable of constructive comments. After I got her first comment, I looked at what she'd said on other pieces in her favorite images. She's made some good suggestions on some of them. I just wondered why she couldn't do that for mine. So I asked her to please be a little less cryptic, and got, well... you saw.

Ratcloset, I used the eyepatch to add one more thing from the set in the render and tie it to the pirate theme. And I saw a stripper in about the same outfit (sans boots) last Friday night wearing one (he used the eyepatch band to hold his tips).

Just wanted to let you all know that the situation has been taken care of. If you have any more concerns or problems, please feel free to contact one of us. Angel1 Poser Coord.

"I also do agree the eye-patch and stripper outfit do not go together."...... that is NOT a technical or constructive comment. I don't like when someone tries to redo another artists work as if it were their own. The CONTENT of the image is the statement the artist was making. That shouldn't be confused with technical ability.

Acadia, do you actually consider "Not worth a comment" to be a valid comment?! bonni

It could have been phrased better, but I think what they were trying to convey was that they didn't like the image. Personally I think it should have been worded better, but sometimes what we think we are saying, doesn't come out the way we mean it. I think that might be the case with the "not worth a comment", statement.

PDXJIMS, I think that the eyepatch is a great product tie-in. Imagine the setting at the club: "Arggh, me lady. For a dollar, you can watch me wiggle and squirm!" -said in a pirate voice. I have another idea, but I cannot say it on this forum. -The Starkdog

I stand corrected. Hermajesty the queen has been reading this thread with much relish or I wouldn't have gotten the two snide PM's I just recieved. Instant Message from hermajesty: At your age you're probably greatful for anything and Instant Message from hermajesty: Don't quit your day job 'girlfriend'

If it's not worth a comment, you can just NOT COMMENT.

It's not rocket science. ;-)

Also, "I don't like it" is hardly contructive criticism. What would be the response to that? "Gee, next time I'll try to make one that you, personally, DO like"?

bonni

Message edited on: 08/20/2005 02:46

Some people treat the forums and galleries like a video game, trying to rack up power points with kills using various weapons. Others suffer from "Dear Diary Syndrome" where they feel the urge to say way too much too often. And some are just jerks. I am trying to remember the eact year when Poser forums became over run by the mentally ill and ill-mannered. hmm I can't remember it was so long ago. :) Unless it is poor humor or a misunderstanding, blatant rudeness is generally an attempt to assert control.

This community and the other Poser communities that I've visited, are way more friendly than some other communities that I've been part of in the past. You don't know how lucky you guys are. There are way worse forums out there that have way worse people involved in them. This site and these forums are like Sesame Street in comparisson.

I think it boils down to intent. I think if some asked themselves "What am I hoping to contribute by typing this?", there would be less conflict.

When you like an image (or dislike it), you don't always have interesting ideas, or even descriptions to say why you do so. But in the galleries, the ranking is linked to a comment, so at times you just say "great" because you don't always take the time to gather all the ideas and emotions the image brings into you, or even can't word them. This doesn't cause any problem when it is positive, but does when it is negative. What about if someone instead of saying "great" because he likes the image was saying "bad" because he dislikes it ? Putting an art piece on display and accepting comments / rankings is also accepting the risk of critics, not always constructive, not always argumented... but sometimes only felt by the viewer. Artists are very sensitive, that's part of the job... but does that mean only accepting non-argumented comments when they are positive ? Just wondering...

Just got this message: Instant Message from hermajesty: Papa troll you should know

BTW, when I was trolled I checked out the artist page and it barely had a few cryptic comments on it. I just find it really odd that she/he hopes that TamelaJ improves her art when those are some of the best head shots in the gallery...

Hi all, Admin has been made aware of this person's activities and appropriate action will be taken. Thanks for keeping it constructive... I see a lot of good suggestions here for giving critique in a helpful manner :-) Karen Poser Mod

[paraphrasing to avoid having to dig back through the thread]: "We don't leave comments in the National Gallery...." "If I just don't like a Picasso, that's that...." This is not exactly true. We may not leave comments in an art gallery (in fact, many galleries have a guestbook for comments), but we do discuss why we like this and not that, or this better than that, or how remarkable a fine piece by a mediocre artist is (Tiepolo's Immaculate Conception in the NG is wonderful because...). The companion whose contribution to a gallery experience is "Fragnard sucks; where's the Boochay naked girls?" should have been left outside tied to a hydrant. And if I announce to my companions that I don't like a Picasso we are looking at, the folks I hang out with would ask me why, and they would not be pleased to be told, "It's ugly, that's why!!" I'm with the folks who don't have much interest in the "Um no" comment or the "Way cool" comment. If you like it, tell me why. If you don't, then tell me why. Even if it isn't technique, I'm still more interested in "Why" than I am in your opinion, unless I know you. M

I had this one respondent who didn't have a gallery, constantly slag me because they didn't like the way I smoothed out the jaggies. They would then come back and suggest other images that I should emulate to their satisfaction. They even slagged me for not smoothing out a frame grab from an anim I had done. If it do a frame grab, I (and this is an "I" moment) like to show the frame in a way that it is presented in the anim. After a while, I called them on this stating that if they wanted an image to look a certain way, that they should actually get off the pot and do something. If you don't like what I do, I can understand that. If you gibber on, complaining that what I do is not what you would do, then by all means show me what you can do. This is, after all, an ARTIST'S community. Show some respect.

Message edited on: 08/20/2005 10:51

"I also do agree the eye-patch and stripper outfit do not go together."...... that is NOT a technical or constructive comment. I don't like when someone tries to redo another artists work as if it were their own. The CONTENT of the image is the statement the artist was making.

I don't agree with this, actually. Art critique is more than just technical. It's also about the content, the message, the aesthetics, and that sort of thing. Frankly, I appreciate that sort of comment a lot more than "you missed some pokethrough on the sleeve."

Does it mean I will change the image, to conform to someone else's vision? Not necessarily. But I will take it into consideration. If someone finds something incongruous in the image, I want to know.

IMVHO, limiting art criticism to technical issues is like limiting literary criticism to spelling and punctuation.

Well the difference in Art Critique and Fashion Critique may be slight, but there is a difference. Telling someone they've chosen the wrong ensemble while acceptable in a fashion show, has little place in an art gallery. Unless an artist is going for a particular fashion look and failing at it miserably. Fashion critiques are uncalled for. Besides, unless the artist actually States that they're going for a certain fashion image, you have no idea whether their choices are wrong for their image or not. All that being said and done. after having gone through quite a few of the comments left by our culprit I noticed his trend towards fashion critique dominating his comments on most images. With that in mind, does anyone really care if a Fashion Nazi Wannabe has something to say about the cloths being worn in their artworks? Unless you're a fashion designer using Poser I see no reason to worry about this sort of nonsense.

Mizrael .. you quite rightly took exception to a comment I made in post #15, where I suggested that your loss of humour was temporary and uncharacteristic. I was clearly wrong and, with your kind indulgence, wish to apologise and withdraw the suggestion unreservedly.

I was talking about Ratscloset's comments, not Hermajesty's.