Since a couple of weeks export from Vue seemed to become a major issue. When i look now to the way i personally work with Vue i must say, i never exported anything from there to other applications. I am honestly interested now (I hope this is read!!!) what the reasons are for others to export stuff. Vue is not a modeller nor can you modify any model that is in there. Therefore all content comes from other applications into Vue. What is the reason then not to go back to the originals but use the ones that are converted already to vob? One thing i learned is, that every convertion is problematic and can change the converted items. You have it as well in real life - translation. Wasn't there a film a while ago "lost in translation?" Ok, here are my questions. Why is export from Vue important for you? Why do you not go back to the originals? Where are you exporting models to? What are you doing there with the exported items? Believe me, this is NOT to pour more oil into the burning flames, i just try to understand the importance of this issue better than i do it now.

We want to export because Vue says we can. So why not. If there was no 3DS or OBJ export, we probably wouldn't really need to export. Since 3DS/OBJ exporting doesn't seem to work anyway (models arrive in other 3D apps broken or shredded), why even have such an option?

I use export to get vob models into poser sometimes for an image that I am working on.. Why not be able to export into other apps when we can from those said apps into Vue. Poser lets us export obj, 3ds and pz3 so why can't vue do the same. It is advertised to do this. Just because one person as you doesn't use a feature doesn't mean there are others that might need to use. If you don't use it then you don't understand others who do use it.

Iloco, that is exactly why i ask. To learn something. Thanks for the snippy answers so far, i really appreciate it. I wanted to find out what people do with export to understand. You say you export to Poser. That is a start. And that is not possible right now? Beside the legal limitations of course that we users have to accept.

Snippy answers ?????......... I don't understand. You asked and I gave what I thought were ok answers.
What are the legal limitations wabe. Why can we use poser and other apps to export files and then use in vue but we can not reverse and do the same from Vue.

Doesn't make sense to me what you are trying to say.

I would like to see you ask this at cgtalk and newtek forum as those guys are on top of things it seems and may have a better answer than whata I can give. I see false advertising if we can not export when it plainly says we can on product pages.

Message edited on: 08/27/2005 05:54

The only thing I have need to export is terrains really, so that I can synch camera movements between Lightwave and Vue. They're usually exported with no texturing, but I would guess that one of the reasons people would want to export would be so that their Vue texturing would follow into another app? Don't know about that, but its a possibility I suppose. Yes, you should be able to export because Vue says you can... but also Vue says you can lock the model, and so people can make use of that as well. As to whether the export works properly - well I've done my bit and highlighted that sometimes terrains wouldn't export. The problem was found (to do with clipping the terrain) and I got assurances that the fix is in a patch.

Wabe, though I didn't export anything to other software yet, I think people want to be able to do it for several reasons: Some vob objects look crappy, and further editing like adding surface subdivisions make the object cleaner and smoother. Vue plants if exported can be part of another project with a different software too. Exporting entire scenes to Max, Cinema, Lightwave and other packages make it possible to render inside those softwares and be able to use some texturing options that Vue can't handle, like subsurface scattering, displacement mapping..., and render ( generally faster!) with these softwares renderers.

Same as above. Easier to synch with my Lightwave scene for camera positioning, etc. The more access to transferable objects are between these two, for me the more seamless interprogram synching will be. (Basically proxies). I'm with DMM here, textures aren't as important in this case, but with others like ilco I can see how textures would be. For those with Max, LW, Cinema, and Maya "Fusion" may change all of that (that would be REALLY cool) but for now people want the freedom to use their purchases in the app of their choice, as the product description alludes to. I can se E-On's concern about piracy, but that's not what these people are trying to do. The more open Vue is to communicating with other software the more people will be interested in using it. As it stands now these solvable issues have hurt E-On, and it's quite sad. They've tried hard and I really want them to succeed. But again, as Ilco points out check out the Lightwave forums at CGTalk and Newtek. Some threads are ove a hundred posts long. The bundle deal offered by Newtek has opened the door to hundreds of new users who are simply not used to such limitations. I don't count myself amongst professional users, but these guys are used to paying premium money for high end software and demand it to function as advertised with no surprises and get vocal when it doesn't. E-On can do this, I know they can. I think it's make or break to make this the "be all to end all" landscaping solution. But it MUST do what it says it can. This is not a slam. It is my wish that they pull it off.

I see the point of synchonisation of course. But i don't see that not working. Not in the e-on/Lightwave forums at CGTalk nor in the e-on registered forums i see complains about that. So do we really know that it is not working?

If it were working there would be no no reason for complaints and you would not need to start this thread with the question you asked. :o)

I would really love to hear why i started this thread Iloco. Can you please point me to the threads at CGTalk you have mentioned above? I was unable to find them there. Oh, and why is this again drifting in another complain thread? I simply asked some questions and want to learn something. And discuss the results. Please whoever wants to discuss e-on policy, start your own thread but do not take this over.

Exporting would save me some time.
For example, it is very convenient to be able to export a whole PZ3 file when you have set something up and then import it to Vue. The other way around would be nice too.

The game project I work with have a very big environment. This I've set up in Vue because of better handling of lights, landscape, plants and big environments.

On the other hand Poser renders my horses and people with dynamic hair, and some of the items much better. I tried for a long time to get the Milhorse with Lyne's textures look real in Vue, but never could get beyond "skin/plastic" combination. That was just not good enough.

And I need the animating of creatures in the environment. which means I render background images in Vue and the animations in front of it in Poser.
Poser renders faster on my older "rendering machine" when using the non hassle Python batching. (Even if the Vue batching also works now). On my render machine I get 12 descent quality 1024 x 768 pix images in 8 hours with Poser and 1 image with Vue in same time. Had this tested last week, that is why I remember. ;o)

So if I could export parts of my environments from Vue to Poser I wouldn't have to set i up twice and I'd have everything in proper scaling within the scene. Now I must do a preview render with the items first in Vue and then position the items according to the image in Poser. Time I could save.

:o)

Wabe, I'm glad you asked this question, because I too was wondering about all this exporting going on. I've been reading some good answers here too, which is helping me understand. I haven't had the need to export from Vue (who knows, I may in the future - but I'm not a graphics professional), but when I download an object from a store or bring it in from another application like Poser, I always keep the original model (with textures) in the same folder as the .vob I create for Vue. Then if there is an object I want to use in Mojoworld or World Builder, I just grab the object from the directory and leave Vue out of it. I do think that once E-on fixes the broken export code, export will again work as it should. Objects themselves weren't affected, only the code that handles them was.

:o) Carry on wabe, I want comment in your thread anymore. Sorry if you think it was hijacked. One question and be my last , why is everyone who is biased with Vue getting so uptight these last few days. :) Not only here but in other forums.

Tiny, what is not working on the export? You haven't said that. What i tried so far was possible - to export stuff from Vue to Poser. Of course not things that are locked from the creatores - like Alain Gracia's free models for example. Or other vob's that never were intended to be exported. Vue 4 stuff!

wabe, it is a couple of things that happens.
I have never been able to export part of a scene with all items in their original place and with textures.
Sometimes it will complete the export but most of the times it tells me exporting is going on but then nothing happens. I have let it sit for hours but always have to crash stop it.

If it actually did complete the export all the objects (when imported to Poser) end up in a pile with their center alignd. Also when the 'center on scene' (or whatever it says) in Poser is unticked. I have not been able to export anything but one or other single item so far. And no textures.

Item by item is not interesting for me. I usually can use them from original. It is the "furnished" scenes I would love to be able to export successfully.

Ok, Bruno, describes it accurately. I'm, learning Shade & various other apps. Always looking for a better render options and added functionality.

Now then back to the Vue 4 thing, and I don't need any repeat answers, as I've heard about 4 different explanations, none of which make sense. And no where did it say that .vobs from V4 would be locked. Yes, I know Vue4 didnt allow for export, so read below, this was a feature I was looking forward to.

First, lets use this as an example. You have bought PoserProPack, you upgrade to P5 & P6. Would if all your libraries were locked from the new added features offered? That would not go over well. All programs, you have export ability whether in stages, ie start only being able to export in DXF format, the next release theyve added 3ds and Shade. Now in all apps, ALL the export features are available now, your prior files are not limited to DXF. Hope that makes sense J

Now then, Ive heard legal reasons prevent this, what legal reasons? Who gives them the right to lock down all OUR work. Im not talking about the items that came with Vue, but the stuff WE created/downloaded & saved in .vob format. No other software does this. In doing so Vue has slapped there legalease onto items they dont own & never did..

Even Bryce, can tell the difference in what was native to Bryce vs what was brought in in 3ds/obj and re-saved in .OBP format. And allows for export back out in its original format.

I really dont think this is too much to ask for. I think this all has to do with too much paranoia.

Anyway, spitting in the wind I knowbut..see paragraph 3. I've already redownloaded/restored from backup almost everything I had. I also, will never buy anything that is encoded or in .vob format ever again. It's all about flexability :) And I sure as heck don't want to go thru this again. It has not been fun.

Message edited on: 08/27/2005 09:42

Interesting Tiny. Have you reported this to the technical support? It is a little confusing because there are several threads where people tell that they switch back and forth between Lightwave, Maya or similar applications and Infinite without too problems. For animation/camera setting reasons. Maybe because of the synchro plugin? I will do some tests the next days to see how this works on my machine(s).

No I haven't reported it. Should have, I can see that now.

I will do some tests...<<
Great wabe. That would help.

...there are several threads where people tell that they switch back and forth between...<<
Really!? Scary to think it may be only a small thing at my end (like the human factor or similar... ;o) ), and I have put down a couple of years on this part of the project.
... oh well .... work is therapy for me ... ;o)

@ DLK30341: Our work being locked down is a huge mistake from e-on programmers that should be repaired with the next update, or so I've read from the Cornucopia newsletter. Hope it's true and that everything comes back to normal, and the sooner the better. Also, the survey asked us if we'd rather buy non locked objects for a bigger fee than cheaper locked vob objects. I'd rather buy more expensive, but it will have to stay competitive, as there are many online stores to compare prices with.

Why, why, why... ;) Are you not an administrator at C3D? Why not start a thread there as well? At the risk of being snippy. LOL

I am only a poor moderator there. Is there a reason why i should not start a thread here?

Not at all Wabe and some good questions. Just seems like the important questions are never brought up at your C3D site is all. I was trying to be humorous actually having the last matrix movie in mind. Where Agent Smith is asking Neo why Mr. Anderson? Why, Why, Why. Any way it may not be a good joke. Thx

I've had a couple of technical problems with the exporter and have been passing information to e-on's tech support in the hope of finding a resolution. One problem regarding the texture map exported not matching the one displayed in Vue has already been solved. The other is that as the size of the texture map increases Vue appears to stop working. Partly this is because the bar stops moving so it looks like it isn't doing stuff even when it is. The other problem may be the other software saving to disk is interfering with Vue saving the texture map to disk and while it doesn't actually crash Vue it makes it look like its crashed. I'm going to do a couple more experiments tonight and pass the results to e-on tommorrow so hopefully the problem can be resolved. As to why I want to export objects: its like mountain climbing - because I can ;-)

DMM wrote, "I would guess that one of the reasons people would want to export would be so that their Vue texturing would follow into another app?" I used to do that all the time with Bryce 5. Export a textured terrain into another rendering app and have its texturing fit perfectly with it. With Vue 5 Infinite, exporting objects is not a simple smooth process. People who've tried 3DS exporting from V5I know what the results of their imported models end up like in other apps.

Tried to import to 3ds, and imported in C4D: texture maps generated by Vue have nothing in common with the original object ( I tied the candelabra), tried to export to obj, Vue ays not enough disk space! Tried C4D ( release 5 only, and why is that? C4D is in its 9th release, and already was when Infinite came out! = same error message. Tried to export in 3ds again, without checking generate texture maps, and the object almost looked like it did in Vue. Will wait for next update to fix this, or I'll report to E-on. Strange we haven't seen more on this topic in the forum, though.

Sometimes V5I will report that there is not enough drive space to export OBJ. Sometimes the OBJ model will arrive in your 3D app with all its polygons exploded apart. V5I will export 3DS models with all their pieces shoved to the center of the universe. I haven't even tried getting textures to export correctly. V5I has a bad transporter lock on models when beaming them out into meatspace.

I've also recieved the 'not enough space' message when trying to export obj. Never succeeded with obj export.

Can i send you an obj file i just exported? I did some tests now and had no problem with the (imported) object i exported again. Not when it comes to mesh - haven't checked the textures. But can it be that you get the "not enough space" message when you make the texture quality value high? Or higher minimum than the real texture is? Just a thought. One strange effect i already had when exporting the whole scene to 3ds. One object - the imported one - was lost in the export. But this needs to be verified a little more to point the finger exactly onto the problem. And then report it. Over night i had thought about a workaround for you Tiny - the problem you described with the positions of items in a scene that you try to export to Poser. Is so far very theoretical and not checked for usability. How about grouping the whole scene (could be that yu have to bake to polygon first too) and weld this together so that you have just one object that you export? And then import this into Poser. Just a thought.

I get the not enough space whether I check or not the generate texture maps buttons.

What object is it? Group of, or single one? Maybe you can send me one. And maybe Mac is different to PC. All needs to be looked into.

Tried with the candelabra, single object.

Worth a thousand words, iloco!

This is probably a stupid thought.....but what the hell ;)

I notice in the above, it has C:my documents etc etc.

Is this really where the items are stored? I removed all remnants of Vue out that area & set up elsewehere. Could it be Vue is looking in the wrong spot? As in if you moved all your stuffage to a new location. Maybe try renaming object. I'd try it myself, but did not download that item after the survey.

Every now & then my Vue gets confused when trying to open a scene file, at times it reverts to that area & gets all wonky.

Good luck :) And hope the above makes sense ;P

Message edited on: 08/28/2005 09:36

Message edited on: 08/28/2005 09:37

Nope, created an "exports" folder in my Vue directory, same error message.

Oh well, sorry :(.

This is the candelabra in Cinema 4D:

Message edited on: 08/28/2005 10:04

Well, you need to tell us how you did it Wabe!

That is the funny thing. I have not done anything specific. Loaded the vob, selected export object, selected 3ds as format (is default) and there we go. Indeed, i didn't selected any texture export but pushed the mesh quality slider to maximum. What surprised me most was that even the materials came through. And the lights. Ok, i am on Mac. Next week i am back to the office and try the same on Windows. To see what will happen.

First the candelabra as obj.
The export settings with material included.

Just as I did. Getting weirder by the minute. Thought we all had the same problem. Is anybody else on Mac here? And can you export? I'm running on PC, and can't export to anything but 3ds.

Message edited on: 08/28/2005 10:57

I'm on Win machine. May have to dust off my Mac. :o)

I haven't tried baking to polygon, since this is already a polygonal object, but I'm gonna try.

Ok, here the tests i did.

#1 loaded the candelabra and tried to export as obj. Repeatable crash.

#2 loaded the candelabra, deleted the lights that are in the group - export to obj ended in an endless loop. Crash!

#3 loaded the candelabra, deleted the lights, baked the rest to polygons and exported that. Worked!

Deleted the lights and exported as obj. And with materials.
This is the rendered result in Poser.

Tried with my scene. Deleted all lights in the whole environment. But got same results as before.

It seems it can handle fairly well one object at a time. And export as obj. Except for the textures.

When I bake my scene it doesn't bake it to one object. It bakes every single object but keeps them seperate.

Have you grouped the whole scene (without lights of course) to one group before baking? Can you send me the scene so that we can talk about the same item please? The candelabra was agreat idea to talk about the same things! BTW, i reported the crash with the obj export to e-on already. Let's hope it will be fixed soon!