Ok since being back, I noticed a big deal going on about the (drum roll please) the hot 20. and of course the inevitable "they are just jealous" crap that gets tossed at anyone that remotely questions the hot 20 or the artists in them. why? why is it to be said so causticly that is just simply MUST be jealousy? does that mean any artist that looks at a piece and go ..that could use a shadow or there is her bloody arm going through the wall or her hip is poking through a coat..that is must be jealousy? jealousy of what? a bad render? a lack of detail? Just because an artists gives a critique doesn't mean there is jealousy involved. anymore then it means if you are in the top 20 you had to get there solely on "friends" votes. just as being in the top 20 doesn't mean you are good. people wonder WHY people don't leave honest comments? because when they do. people get ignorant and don't think for a moment they could of made a mistake that someone is just jealous. It is sad to see that in the time I was gone from online...that nothing has change but on the contrary has gotten worse. now if you tell someone "er. the arm is going through the building and you need to move the person abit. there is also a shadow missing if you adjust your lights it will fix it" that person is attacked. worse then before it seems. it seems to fly right by ..that a person would say that to HELP an artist. yet the crystalline fragile egos here take it immediately as something vile and jealousy filled and the swarm of "don't listen to them it is PERFECT" come. it seems the "GREAT" mentality...the mentality that the only way to help a friend or support them is to blindly with out question tell them continuously how perfect they are. there are some immense art in the top 20. But, just because you are in the top 20 doesn't mean you are Picasso either. and just because someone questions it...doesnt mean they are jealous. Most artists here when they start..the top 20 is important. after all. being an artist generally means you LIKE to have your worked looked at and well..liked.(also most of us regardless of age have shed tears over our work in one way or another for what ever reason. no one should ever be ashamed of that) but as you get older in rendo or just to art. being in a top anything starts to loose a luster. yes it is nice. but...you start to realize it is not about how high someone places you but how high you place your OWN work and how hard you work to increase your skill and how far you can stretch your horizon. it gets to be about what you can portray in your work. if you can get it to "live". it starts to be a focus past a placement on any list. some may wish to think about that..there is no growth without growing pains. Btw..... -allot- of artists have left rendo. 95% of them quietly. why? they grew. they got tired of the utter shit. they got tired of the fake praise. if you go to some other art forums. you will see what I mean. We all complain that the PTB need to do something. but, how can the PTB go into each living room/puter room and change a persons views? yes they could just remove the top 20..but that wont change the egos, the mind sets and the sight of some. That wont change blind compliments or the jumping off of " they must be jealous don't listen to them" what needs to change..is the view of it. see...told you to read at your own risk ;)

I am with you hun I Post now and then not as much as I did in the past and I comment on a pic I tell it as I see it you IM me to have me take my thoughts down I might if I am in a good mood but you can count on me never looking at your work again. Or for that matter ever giveing a rats fart about anything you might do again And yep I been in the top a few times and allways delet them pics I dont care to be in there. O what i love is them ppl that toss there pitty fits waaa some one sed i suck i am taking dowm all my pics them ppl make me lmao like any one really gives a rats butt if you do you will be forget in a week they will post O we miss you dont stop posting but in turn talk crap behind your back all day long lol I love rants lol and BTW nice to see your back

Morrigan has made it pretty clear she doesn't want to see any more of these threads here. We're advised to contact the site owners or admins by e-mail if we have concerns about the hot 20. My personal feeling, other than ignoring the hot 20, is that the few who are interested in it should be allowed to have some innocent fun and some semblance of competition and popularity.

what I do, is mainly just comment on stuff I like..;) Phrasing things as helpful tips, or show where resources can be found etc., coupled with an appreciation of the effort made, is the safest way to go.

Just for reference... We do understand your dissatisfaction with the current Hot 20 system & although we are unable to make immediate changes we are working on a more satisfactory feature, meanwhile please remember the Hot 20 is for entertainment purposes only. Now, just to point out, we don't mind venting, etc, AS LONG as it does not turn into a "name and shame" post, and as long as no personal attacks take place. MorriganShadow Poser Moderator

there are no personal attacks. no name calling. that is what part of the vent is. the thing that seemed to cause the big doohaha about the hot20 was because of name calling and stuff and there is no need for it no reason for it and doesnt do anything.

I don't care about the Hot20, whether it stays, goes or changes. But I do care about comments. Most of it is just praise - and I'm "guilty" too - some of it is just trolling, and very, very few comments have helpful tips. When I see something in an image that can be improved I don't hesitate to mention it, in a friendly and polite way. And often the maker sends me a thank-you PM. I have never received any negative feedback on my comments. On the contrary. In my experience you won't get blasted for leaving a critical comment, as long as it is helpful and polite.

Any comments I've ever gotten for improvement on an image have always been polite and appreciated because sometimes you can work on an image for days at a time and still miss something. It's always helpful to see it through fresh eyes. I've had a few images in the Hot 20, usually one of my dragons, but what I post in my gallery are just images I've had fun creating and enjoy sharing. Art has always gotten me through good times and bad and is as much a part of who I am as are my green eyes and brown hair. No matter what medium I use to create it. So whether the Hot 20 stays or goes does not effect me in any way and I am sure it won't matter to those who are voted into it on a regular basis. But what does matter is the hurtful things that are being said and that definitely needs to stop.

Well, about the comment thing - i have to agree with svdl - when i see something wrong - like, as you say, clipping or missing shadows - i point it out, always in a polite way (really no need to be rude to give away a suggestion) and i never got a flame IM, i've received instead many "thank you" messages for this. The same obviously i believe in the other way - even when i'm not following a suggestion, i'm always fond to receive them, since they help me improve my future work!

Also, you say that the Hot20 is important for many newcomers and become progressively less important, if i got you right. It was not like that for me - i've never wanted to be in them, since i'm not here for competition, but rather to meet other people who share my interest in DG, which i believe to be the original intent of the site. And i can hardly believe that i'm the only one to think that way...

And the fact that caused agitation in the first place i think was not the accusation against the Hot20, but rather the fact that this accusation was made against a specific person, and this was not fair - if the system doesn't work, fine, tell it, but there's no reason to pick on people who got on the Hot20 - they had done nothing to blame! Or at least so i think...

Bye,
Grim

Message edited on: 09/03/2005 21:07

If you dont like the hot 20, just dont look at it, I havent even looked at the hot 20 once yet, so it doesn`t bother me.

What is Hot 20? Who?

Cameron Diaz, Salma Hayek, Catherine Zeta Jones, Angelina Jolie, ... uh... and the other 16????

sly

Message edited on: 09/05/2005 05:18

hehe I agree with those names. specially angelina and catherine. but seriuosly. there was never a need to get to the name calling that apparently went on(I still dont know what thread or what exactly started it) No, not everyone is going to like this or that work. BUT why was there a need to name call? apparently from all I gather it got rather nasty. the point I am trying to make is..that while the hot 20 is nice. it is for entertainment. it really is not a judge of quality. which I know seems odd. but honestly it is not. I have seen works in the hot20s(not just poser) that are just O.o.(heck last week had to report a top 20 of another media for being a copyrighted work what does that tell you?) yes the pics in hot 20 get more views. but again that doesnt nessecarily mean anything either. controversy or even a big in your face mistake can get you that. trust me. I just hope, that people realize it is not worth name calling and geting to the point of running an artist off. guh I cant express what I am wanting to say. just....I hope that the name calling and such just fades away. one, it is not needed, two it makes no difference it is not productive. it doesnt make a change in ideas, perception or belief. it is not the same as critiqueing someone honestly. as for critique..sorry but I know that even being polite and nice you will get an artist that doesnt want to here anything negative about their art. you can go through and find where people have made honest comments about mistakes in work and gotten ripped apart for it. and they -were- nice about it. -that- is why most dont do it. also if I am not mistaken..wasnt there a similar hot 20 incident like this not to long ago? a few years ago really? where someone trolled a bunch of artists galleries and feelings got hurt and artists left?

(I prefer THE OTHER Top 20)