There seems to be a lot of growing interest in an E-On and DAZ collaboration in recent Forum threads.

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-Once E-On releases xFusion for MAX, Maya and Lightwave,
a possible link-up to DAZ Studio COULD be next in the cards.
(That is- if enough users want/demand it.)

DAZ giving E-on an SDK to support import of ds binary files?
(So- why NOT? Why shouldn't Vue IMPORT Daz Binary Files?)

E-on creating an xFusion link to Daz Studio?
(This would allow full landscape imports into Daz Studio and allow use of the 3Delight render engine.)

E-on having a RIB export format to allow rendering in Daz Studio?
(This would be another method of getting Vue files into DS and allow 3Delight rendering.)

-and somewhat related- E-on FINALLY allowing full Poser import and posability of Poser files --the way Carrara 5 Pro
does? (The Cat is Out of the Bag now - users want FULL Posability in Vue- NOT just Poser file import!)

Attached Link: http://www.3delight.com/Gallery/Collection/01A/Bailey_HR.htm

...Check this link to see what the 3Delight render engine that Daz Studio is POTENTIALLY capable of... (The render of the Dog is 3D...)

On other questions- like WOULD DAZ want to work with E-on since DAZ owns/sells Bryce?- or that E-on has a "relationship" with e-frontier- WELL- I think- we are talking Business and User Demand- if both companies would benefit by selling more software/models- then they would be STUPID not to work together!...

Attached Link: http://www.3delight.com/renderman_features.htm

-Link to 3Delight website for those who are not familiar with 3Delight software (that Daz Studio uses.) Would I use Daz Studio now? NO, I wouldn't. But when DAZ releases their SDK- and adds more professional features- this could definately change!

DS looks like it could become pretty handy, though I haven't had the time to get too far into it yet, but being able to repose your figures from inside your scenery app is pretty helpful. Heck (being totally selfish here) what I'd love is a way to import bryce scenes into Vue... though I know that'll probably never happen. Then I could construct the scenes in bryce (something I can do quickly), send them off to Vue for a bit of eco-ing and lighting and some mild retexturing of procedurals and quicker rendering.... It'd be one hell of a way for Vue to attract bryce users (they've had sidegrades before trying to lure bryce users over and it'd reduce the learning curve for a brycer when they start) ... but as I said, I don't think it'll happen.

Attached Link: http://www.wolfiesden.com/bryce/tut/old/med-export.html

As a long time Brycer, after I got Vue 2, and Metacreations released their "Aloha and Bye-Bye" Bryce 4.1 with the "secret CTL-D" option- I have exported nearly all Bryce models I like out of Bryce. That's because about 80-90% of all Bryce models are made from MESHES created in other 3D modeling software. And I have even exported Bryce procedural mats using the technique described on Wolfie's website (see link). They come in as bitmaps of course, but with some re-bumping, etc- they can look quite usable in Vue. But I think we could, in the future, perhaps be able to combine elements of Bryce and Vue in a Daz Studio scene- such as Vue Eco-Systems and a Bryce Boolean-Only model (that cannot be exported using CTL-D)- IF DAZ and E-on were to form a mutually beneficial cooperation. It might even be possible to then export that entire scene from DS and into Bryce, even... Of course- we could even see a similiar relationship between DAZ and Planetside! Perhaps a DAZ scene hosted in Terragen 2? ...It is QUITE POSSIBLE! I think a lot of "unthinkable" software deals could become realities in 2006. It will just depend upon which companies want to cooperate. Right now, Eovia seems to be moving towards a much more cooperative relationship with DAZ. Maybe the line-up would be DAZ, Eovia, Planetside in the DS and DAZ Binary import camp-- vs.---E-on, MojoWorld and e-frontier in the Poser camp. But I don't think it would be smart for E-on to settle for this type of alignment...

What your going to see (which already exists to an extent) is a closer relationship between Eovia and DAZ. Carrara 5 Pro has native Poser import (no copy of Poser need be on your PC) as well as Transposer (all dynamics imported). I suspect the native Poser import for Carrara came from their relationship with DAZ?

Also expect a killer revision of Bryce in the near future, with plug-in ties to Carrara.

I would be surprised to see an integration between Carrara and Bryce. Carrara looks to me like a more mature version of Bryce already. Is there anything that Bryce is doing that is not already in Carrara ?

Well- what Bryce needs to be a "killer revision" is greater render speed, some type of eco-systems, support for rendering modes like GI, GR and IBL- basically what Vue 5 has. What I think DAZ should do with Bryce is greatly enhance its relationship with the architectural and GIS markets. I have tried to interest E-on in GIS, and get them to support architectual renderers like Piranesi- but it has been a real uphill struggle. It doesn't seem like these will make it into Vue 6. I sometimes worry that because E-on is such a Paris, France-centric company that they don't really FEEL the trends and winds of change that you get from US based software companies. Companies like @Last (Sketch-Up) etc. seem to move with great energy, excitement, PR, etc. as they listen to their user base... xFusion might well be a real WINNER for E-on- but while they will be struggling to work out all the BUGS for MAX, LW and MAYA users (that's a LOT of stuff to CHEW ON) they could see their LOWER-END market get taken away from them! Sharing of Proceedural mats between Bryce and Carrara- as well as Boolean models, etc- basically DOING what the ORIGINAL MetaCreations goal was - INTEGRATING Poser, Bryce and RayDream (now Carrara)-- might actually now happen with DAZ in control of Bryce. Basically- DAZ could follow through on the original MetaCreations concept, but with DAZ Studio- Bryce- and Carrara! Yes- that would be a real winner for both DAZ and Eovia.. If Planetside were to throw their cards in with DAZ and they would support each other with file formats, plug-ins, etc.- perhaps even Terragen 2 as a BRYCE Plug-in? Hey- why NOT! DAZ is primarily interested in selling MODELS- if Bryce had Terragen 2 capabilities- DAZ wouldn't have to develope all kinds of new cutting edge features for Bryce! I also suspect Terragen 2 will move in on the same Plug-in areas that E-on has covered- atmospheres for MAX, LW, Maya, etc. LOTS of things could happen, heh!

But what you are saying is that Eovia would help DAZ beef up Bryce to become something like.... Carrara. That doesn't make any sense to me. If DAZ and Eovia are really getting a lot closer, it would be just simpler to add bryce file / mat support to Carrara and just kill Bryce at this point.

Well, I don't think Eovia would need to go that far- just being able to, say, import Bryce native files and Bryce Procedurals would be a popular thing, I think. (BTW- I have not been impressed with Carrara's procedural mats- at least those I've seen in demos, etc.- Bryce still has superior mats- E-on only caught up with Bryce there with Vue 5.)

In my opinion, DAZ should have never bought Bryce in the first place. I think Brian Brandenburg had a lot to do with it- at a time DAZ had the cash laying around- but Brandenburg left DAZ shortly there-after. So-- I think DAZ (Dan Farr) has really just hoped to milk the loyalty and sentiment of Bryce users and supply DAZ models to Bryce via DAZ Studio. Actually, this is a STUPID concept- but what it may be for DAZ is part of a test-bed to create host-links, etc. for later use with Lightwave, MAX, etc. This is why I have a hard time seeing that DAZ would really try to OUT-DO Vue... It really is NOT in DAZ's main interest, I think.
I really DON'T see a SUPER Bryce 6 coming. It has taken DAZ an awful long time just to get DAZ Studio up to 1.0 speed as INTRO-LEVEL software. 3Delight COULD go INFINITELY further- but they have so far really choked DAZ Studio back
to the point that its still fairly worthless- except as a FREEBIE to manipulate NUDE Vickies (where DAZ sells the add-ons-- the MAIN Purpose of DAZ Studio).

So I see DAZ, which has a business as a model-maker... as doing what it can to FACILITATE the sales of models into other 3D apps. This is why I even POSTULATE the somewhat WILD, but POSSIBLE concept that DAZ could work with Planetside to bring Terragen 2 features into Bryce 6 as a Plug-In. This could happen because DAZ, which wants to sell models, would provide to Planetside the DAZ file import- and perhaps even DAZ model manipulation features- in exchange for Terragen 2 features in Bryce. BRYCE would live ON- but as a model HOST and Plug-IN HOST. Of course, its just a "theory"- but it would suit DAZ's interests JUST FINE...

Attached Link: http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/tgd/decinfo.shtml

Check THIS LINK for some AWESOME Previews of Terragen 2 (The Landscape Renders are MIND-BOGGLING!---And see how Planetside is adding a Function Node Network feature...)

"Terragen 2 Technology Preview will be the first public release of Planetside Software's new landscape visualisation software. The Technology Preview is planned to be made available around the end of January 2006 for both Windows and Mac OS X 10.4.x.

TG2 Technology Preview features an advanced hybrid micropolygon renderer with powerful multi-angle displacement capabilities. It has a versatile procedural engine that can be utilised to apply subpixel-level detail to many aspects of a scene. TG2 is capable of rendering billions of polygons.

TG2 Technology Preview supports vegetation, using 3D models from a variety of sources, including XfrogPlants models from greenworks. A Populator system allows you to easily place millions of instances of plant models in a scene, with variations such as rotation and scale to vary their appearance. The Populator can also be used with other arbitrary 3D objects imported from supported file formats.

The Technology Preview release is aimed mainly at higher end users. It has a powerful and flexible graphical node/graph editor which is used for creating networks of shaders and scene elements. The Technology Preview features a number of high level shaders which create more complex scene elements, such as clouds or rocks, as well as a low level function node system which allows you to create shaders from "first principles", using functions and methods that will be familiar to shader writers. The node editor can be used to unlock the full power of the TG2 rendering engine."

As good as it looks in the previews, what remains to be seen is how usable the application will be. I tried both Mojoworld and Terragen 1 (as well as a bunch of other apps) and I just can't get into their way of doing things.

...by coming out with this preview release "aimed mainly at higher end users" it is clear that Planetside is talking about E-on's intended xFusion market- MAX, Maya and Lightwave (and even higher end)...

Yes- I can't get into MojoWorld's way of doing things- and Terragen's HIGH END version looks like it would be well over the heads of many Vue users- BUT for PROS doing MOVIES, 64 bit Games, etc.- there could well be a nice niche for Terragen 2 as the "Rolls Royce" of Landscape renderers... Rolls, Mercedes, Jag mechanics make some good money- so for a Terragen 2 "Gear Head" it could mean an open door to many media production companies... Of course- Planetside will have to deal with BUGS, just like E-on- and that's where the RUBBER meets the ROAD- WHO can deliver the workable GOODS via Plug-Ins to MAX, Maya and LW.... E-on REALLY has their work cut out for them!

Attached Link: http://oshyan.ashundar.com/galleries/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=2

Here's a Terragen 2 Alpha image that REALLY SELLS ME! I am hugely interested in ocean waves and scenes like this... Also- check out the Mount St Helens scene: "This is the first Terragen 2 alpha image to be shown featuring 3D objects. All objects have been loaded and rendered directly in the current "TGD" alpha. There are 310,000 trees, 580,000 bushes, and 85,000 "grass clumps", totalling over 13.5 billion polygons before culling."

Attached Link: http://lucbianco.free.fr/3D/TGD206.jpg

...And this one is a virtual PHOTOGRAPH!...

The water is beyond impressive! But that node editor looks like a horror o.O..hope there is an EXTENSIVE manual regarding this. And here I thought Vues was bad! If we are being honest here, Terregen has the best landscapes around, that said, I'm with Agiel on this one, the interface is odd and I never came to grips with that.

Message edited on: 12/08/2005 17:04

Here's what the Planetside release says about it:

"We are very aware that many users may find the node based interface hard to understand and work with. We strongly emphasise that the Technology Preview release is aimed at higher end users. We will be developing a Standard version of TG2 for more casual users that has an interface similar to Terragen v0.9, but which makes it easier to leverage the power of the TG2 render engine to create scenes of outstanding realism and complexity."

For me, I have never had a problem with Terragen's interface. But the new "high end" interface is definately NOT "for more casual users". I am sure the High End version is for the VERY SERIOUS Landscape creators- and will probably have a PRICE TAG to match. There are High-Enders who have no problems with "geeky" interfaces.

But I would certainly PREFER a more User Friendly interface-which seems to be in the works for the version that will be for the rest of us "casual users".

The fact that Planetside is launching its T2 Campaign initially to High Enders is probably a result of Matt Fairclough (Terragen creator) having spent some time programming software for High End productions in California.
I think that has taught him where "the money is". Perhaps with this initial high end demo release in January he might very well get some needed investment funds from Tech Investment groups so that Planetside can roll out all the software, expand facilities, personnel, etc.

...Just my guess based on how I've seen other High Tech companies operate over the past 20 years!

As long as there is an thorough manual, I'll be OK. Unlike Vue who's manual is this area is well "lacking" IMHO. I'm NOT a high end user, that said, that doesn't mean I don't want perfection or as close as I can come.

I don't see the problem with the Vue manual. I use it all the time. It is one of the few manuals I have that actually explains what is going on and not just a series of 'click here', 'do this' and 'enter that'.

Agiel and dlk30341... scarily enough, it was only like 3 minutes ago (just before coming here and reading this) I was looking at my V5i .pdf manual and wondering whether or not its worth reading lol

Message edited on: 12/08/2005 22:14

"Attached Link: http://lucbianco.free.fr/3D/TGD206.jpg

...And this one is a virtual PHOTOGRAPH!..."

Not if you lived in Arizona,USA, or Sonora Mexico and hiked in the Sonoran Desert (only place in the world with Saguaros). It's a LONG ways from "virtual photograph." That "Saguaro Cactus" looks like a cartoon cactus!

Mornin All. I came on board with Poser at version 3. Got on to Bryce version 3. Didn't get to Vue until version 4. I'm on Poser 5 now (not upgrading to 6 unless I have to), I have Bryce 5.5 and Vue 5, 5 Pro and then went to Infinite. As it stands now, Bryce can only compete with Vue to a point. If DAZ truly wishes to compete with Vue, they have a lot of work ahead of them and a very long way to go. They would need to make a "Pro version" of Bryce. The price the Bryce is at now, is a good price for the artist/hobbiest. I think that Eovia wanted to eliminate the middle man so to speak and not have the ability to use DAZ models in Carrara dependant on Poser. Thus the support for native Poser content. Plus it will eliminate the 40 minutes it takes to import a poser model into Carrara. For a free program, I think that DAZ Studio is nothing to sneeze at. Maybe it can't do all the things that Poser can, but after 6 incarnations, I'm not so hot about Poser anymore. They still have not fixed the issue with bump maps mapping to the correct node. If DAZ Studio continues to improve, I won't upgrade Poser. I would not mind seeing a module/interface/plug-in to go from DAZ Studio to Vue. Heck, I wouldn't mind the reverse either. I started a feedback thread at e-on http://www.e-onsoftware.com/support/ShowMessage.php?id=1133400690 and Matt pointed it out to the "big guys" to gauge the interest. If you have any interest, I would ask you to post to that thread. I would not mind either if Vue supported native Poser/DAZ Studio/DAZ Model content. I have not used Terregen that much, so really can't comment on it. I definitely don't have any of the high end apps either. I don't model and they cost a lot more than I can swing right now.

To Agiel : I was refering to the node editor in the manual(re-read my post), NOT the whole manual(the rest is good). If you can understand that part good for you, I sure as heck can't.

Message edited on: 12/09/2005 07:55

Attached Link: http://lucbianco.free.fr/3D/TGD11.jpg

Actually, Luc Bianco who did the T2 Suguaro, is a talented and published Landscape Photographer as well as software wizard with Terragen. Here's another of his T2 "Cartoons"...

Attached Link: http://lucbianco.free.fr/3D/TGD06.jpg

HEH! A real Looney Tune here...!

Attached Link: http://lucbianco.free.fr/3D/TGD202.jpg

...Obviously he knows NOTHING about Landscapes... (HEH!) Too bad he is "wasting" his time with T2...

Well...my comment was to the the Saguaro Cactus. At any rate, here are some photos.

Photorealistic, perhaps not. But it looks pretty good to me. Just depends on the lighting and the particular cactus.

However, while the cactus is pretty realistic, I'm not so sure about the ground.

• Oshyan

...Would you mind posting a render or two of the T2 Ocean waves? Can T2 do Ocean Swells? I happen to be a big ocean scene fan and I've seen some of the smaller sample-teasers of ocean water and waves from T2. Please- post a couple!