Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=1110447&Start=76&Sectionid=1&filter_genre_id=0&Whats

Does anyone know how to post a picture in the gallery and give credit to where credit is due anymore? 86.5% of the new "Poser" galleries just pretty much say thanks for looking and not one mention of the people that made their art happen. I've seen some wonderful work done today in the "what's new" galleries and I would have loved to purchase some of the characters and clothing I've seen.. but how can I? I don't know where to find some of these wonderful items. I've added a link to a gallery picture I seen by Penguin357 and his post is how a post should be IMO. It just burns me up that nobody can get something they like, and a merchant who worked hard on their product just lost a sale due to a huge lack of credit. not to mention in most of the read me's they ask to give them credit. isn't that like an user agreement? I know alot of the merchants here are stay at home mom's and dad's and this is their income... or part there of. I'm not a merchant but I know when I see something that I like, I am going to buy it. If I know who sells it that is. come on guys, help out your fellow 'rositers, if you liked something enough to buy it, I just know someone else will. sorry about the rant, I just figured I'd say something here instead of yelling about it on these certian peoples gallery comments. and I'm sure I am not the only one here that is mad over lack of credits. Jeff

"I've seen some wonderful work done today in the "what's new" galleries and I would have loved to purchase some of the characters and clothing I've seen.. but how can I?" Easy. IM the person and ask them. ;-)

too much trouble...shouldn't have to ya know? the way to fix the problem is not to create the problem. tell everyone that looks at such and such pictures that HEY I got this product from so and so. very simple, takes less time to credit then it did to render.... wow, I just got an idea. I know from time to time I have no idea who created something I just used.. so while rendering and prior to uploading we could look through our files and figure it out nothing better to do while the old pute' clocks chugs and renders :o)

"too much trouble...shouldn't have to ya know?" Well, that's where we disagree I guess. :-) I don't think anyone should be obligated to tell you where they got items to make their images, especially if they paid for them. I mean, sure... it's a good thing to do to help out the merchant, but the artists who already spent their hard-earned money for an item aren't being paid a commission to do any additional marketing for that merchant. I personally credit anyone who helps bring one of my own images or animations to life, but that's just me. Not everyone is as kind and selfless as I am. LOL. ;-P (just kidding)

I have a mixed bag of feelings and thoughts about this issue. On one hand it is nice to be able to look at an image and if there is something in there that I like, to be able to see who made it. However, on the other hand, the gallery isn't a billboard for advertising. It's a place for people to post their art/images/creations for public viewing. When you go to an art gallery or museum, you don't see a list of art suppliers listed below each painting/statue/monument. Chances are good that the artist didn't create make their own canvas, brushes and paints. They purchased them to use in their artistic creations. The same as Poser users do with Poser items. So based on that, I feel that products that I buy do not need to be given credit. I gave them my money, and that should be satisfactory. Then we come to creators of free content. Now this is where I do feel that credit should be listed. The person has spent time and energy creating something nice and gave it away totally free without strings. They got nothing out of it other than the pleasure/challenge of making it. In this case a "credit" and a "thank you", is the least the gallery poster can muster. If I see a gallery image, or an image in the store that has something in it that I like, many people here can attest to receiving a PM or email from me asking where I might get the item. Lots of times the item has been post worked in and isn't actually something that is available. Let me ask you this. When you get dressed each morning, do you put a sign on yourself with a list crediting all the people/companies that made the clothes/shoes and makeup (for women) that you are wearing? Chances are you don't. Just a side note. I abhore companies that try and use me as a walking billboard. I do not wear shirts with logos on them. I refuse to buy anything that has the companies name plastered on it. I've actually bought purses and paid to have the zipper pull changed because I didn't like the fact that the company engraved their logo into it. And God help the car dealership that slaps a sticker on any car that I buy from them. I refuse to pay someone to use me as a walking billboard for something I paid them for.

Geez, damned if you do and damned if you don't. I used to credit everybody and put where I bought things and people bitched about that. Now, you're bitchin cause some of us don't. You can always do like most of do and go on a scavenger hunt to find them. Who knows, you might even find other things you like even better.

I sometimes credit a product I bought but not much these days. I always try to credit a free item. I'll credit a marketplace item when the merchant makes a gift to me. I figure the merchant gets my money so a credit is not necessary. A credit for a free item or a gift is my way of saying thanks.

I agree with the Trent Reznor fan (I like your login). So many of these products have so much talent behind them that people really should give credit when they make renders...

I have to agree a bit with ninhalo5. It's quite often I see a picture, and some gorgeous stuff used in that image, and wonderfing where can I get that stuff? It would be really nice if it was credited under the image, but on the other sde, as said before here, people have bought this stuff (most of them though, unfortutately there is a lot of renderostuff going through Peer to Peer networks, and that is another thing I really wonder about..who in earth buy stuff and then put other people's stuff out on a peer to peer network???) and there is nothing that says that they HAVE to make credits. I always try to do so, in respect of the merchant who made it possible for me to make that picture, but I have also noticed a lot of merchants that do not credit other merchants, just themeselves and the products that they have made in that picture. So if a merchant wants us to credit them, they sure should be doing it themselves as a good excamlpe :) Sorry for the bad spelling, english is not my primal language ;)

Geez, damned if you do and damned if you don't. I used to credit everybody and put where I bought things and people bitched about that. Now, you're bitchin cause some of us don't. Ditto. People are under NO obligation to say what character they used or what other models and where they got them. If you really need/want to know, you can always drop a PM to the artist and ask. I just figure that unless I have a particular reason to state what I used, it's MY choice to do so or not. bonni

Many of us do credit as many of the product and freebie developers as "humanly" possible. It is hard though because sometimes the item names, folder names and readme files conspire to make it very hard to find who produced certain (especially freebie) items. Another problem, that I have, is that I like doing complex scenes and I end up filling all of the product credit boxes.

Having said that, It really is far easier to ask the artist what a particular character or prop is, because then you don't have to guess which product credit matches which item in the image and the artist hasn't had to list everything that was used. I would think that most artists would respond very favourably to any information request.

I'm with Sam. If you paid for something, you have no obligation to list it in the credits. Show me where it says that in the Rosity (or DAZ, or PoserPros) license.

That is more commonly found in freebie readme's. I do try to list freebies, since recognition is the only payment freebie makers get.

I'm with SamTherapy on this one, if I have paid for it thats all I for the merchant, but free stuff is another thing, free stuff first got me interested in this site, there are so many kind hearted people out there and I believe thy are the unsung heroes off the Poser community..

I have to say on this from a personal view point I "try" to give credits where I can, but to be honest, like most of you probably, I have that much stuff I forget who most of this stuff was made by and other than making a database of product against modelller there's no way I could keep track of it all. At th end of the day it's down to an individuals choice as to how much effort he/she takes to give credit to stuff in their image. Also a point missed here is sometimes I use stuff from other places and their names don't appear on Rendos drop down list, yes I could put them in my write up but again that's if I remember to do it and more importantly if I remember who did them! thefixer, poser coord. P.S. Remember to keep it civil please guys!

Do you wear a billboard on your butt, telling people where you got your pants from?

Same principle here, someone wants to know all they have to do is ask

Seriously, it's pratically impossible to remember who made what and where you got it, and after you get gigs of poser content, read me's are deleted

Message edited on: 12/11/2005 06:50

LOL at dirk5027...Sweet M8....

So let me get this right... you can't be bothered taking 30 seconds IMing spmeone... but you expect everyone else to go through the files of all the products they've used and then list the credits on the off chance that you might want to use something? LMAO Jack

Do you wear a billboard on your butt, telling people where you got your pants from? No, but I went shopping the other day and only found out when I returned home that I had forgotten to peel the "SALE - REDUCED" sticker off the arse pocket. :-S

.. so while rendering and prior to uploading we could look through our files and figure it out nothing better to do while the old pute' clocks chugs and renders

Just a FYI...before Poser 6, you really couldn't do that (unless you had dual processors). Poser 5 tended to crash if you did anything else while rendering.

If you paid for something, you have no obligation to list it in the credits. Yeah, I figure that my credit CARD should be enough... ;-) bonni

@ Karen - LMAO. @ Dirk - interesting point. In fact, most of us do wear advertising. Think about it - Levi's, Nike, Adidas, etc, all put their logo on the outside of their clothes.

yeah well.. I usually credit if I can remember who made what. But for instance all the stuff I buy at Daz will only get credited as "from Daz" - even when it's brokered items. I just (generally) can't be arsed to look it up to figure out who it was. Freestuff... I TRY to credit, but all my older stuff is just lumped together, and after 4-5 years of collectormania there's no way I can remember who made what. Then people bitch and mourn at "vanity" folders, the ones that are named after the creator. For some time, I stopped using them, resulting in me being unable to find even the things I've made myself because I couldn't reember what I called the folder L So now all my stuff goes into a TrekkieGrrrl folder. I figure that if it really annoys people, they can move it. (and at least I don't call it !!!!!!TrekkieGrrrl ;o) ) But at least that way people can potentially remember that I made this and that... =o)

Well, I don't think I'll ever forget who made the onions for me. :) Thinking back, I've used some weird stuff in my pics... Onions, bear traps, cleavers, burning guitars, clockwork mice, sledgehammers... I could keep a shrink in business for years. :D

I not only try to list all the products I've used, I even go to the websites and try to find the vendors' names. I have several years of files in my runtimes so I don't always know who the creator was but I try to identify them. I even try to put which store I purchased the items in case someone wants to try to find them. Does this take some time and effort? Yes, but I figure if it helps someone to find an item or results in an extra sale for a favorite vendor then great! It's also my way of saying "Thank You" for the creativity behind free and purchased items used.

I try hard to give credit for everything I use in a pic simply because I don't feel that I should be given credit for creating items that I didn't actually make myself. Doesn't matter whether I purchased them or not, it bugs me that someone might think I painted that hair or modeled that outfit when all I did was buy it. SnowS

SnowSultan.. That is mainly a problem (if you can call it a problem) when you show your pics to people who knows nothing of Poser. They either don't understand the concept of 3D at all, or they think you've modeled it all... I try to explain that "no I didn't actually MODEL Snape. I just made a premade model look vaguely like him" - but I have a feeling I 'm talking to a wall sometimes. So.. does it bother me that people are awestruck by my "modeling abilities"? Well, to a point it does. Especially when they ask me to do stuff that simply isn't possible in Poser... But in general. Well, I tell them it's made with Poser, but the pictures I post in my LiveJournal have no credits (generally speaking) because the people who sees them there wouldn't know what to do with the info anyway. ... SamTherapy.. I actually think of you, and that picture, whenever I scroll past my onions :o) So it works both ways :o)

Getting me to part with my money and pay a merchant for their hard work is credit enough. After all I use a CREDIT card to buy my stuff.

I have given up crediting merchants because half the time I can't remember who created what that went into my image. If people wish to know what I used that's what the IM feature is for. I've done it in the past with an artist - I asked them where they got an item of clothing from. I got an answer and was able to then buy the item in question.

In the unlikely event that someone believes I've modelled all the content myself I'll happily and patiently explain otherwise - since it's yet to happen it isn't an issue for me.

Message edited on: 12/11/2005 10:49

My feeling on it, as a merchant, is that if people have paid for my product, that's all the credit I need. Sure, it's nice when you see someone credit you, but I don't think people should be obligated to credit a Poser merchant any more than I would feel obligated to credit Staedtler when using their pencils to do a drawing. If people ask what I used for a certain Poser project, I'll tell them, just like I would if they asked what kind of pencils I use. Free stuff is another matter entirely. I always give credit when using an item I've downloaded for free (whether it be a freebie download or a gift from a fellow merchant), because in those cases, credit is the only payment the creator receives.

elgeneralisimo hates it when people post messages on boards without giving proper credits...

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I try to credit everyone's stuff I use, but sometimes, especially after it's loaded, the connection isn't all that apparent. Maybe that's why I keep using the same stuff over and over. I use Freebies exclusively, so I think they need credit (well, my stuff would be freebies too should I learn how to UVMap better, and have a place to host more of it..;) And once you get enough stuff loaded in Poser, it does get confusing..

ernyoka1, didn't know it had a name: "collectormania." Now I know the malady I suffer from. My pain has a name! Filling up my 8th CD ROM with purchases/free goodies ... Never post to the gallery but keep a small corner of the Web where I always try and credit the artists who create the works I use. I think I saw someone who listed all of the vendors/free stuff providers and I thought it was cool. Now whenever I download something I try to capture a thumb and put everything in a data base with the authors name. Also include which CD-ROM the goody is stored on. Saves a lot of time. As a rant I guess I don't understand. A good suggestion maybe: give credit where it's due. Best wishes and thanks to all who provide free stuff and those who post with tricks and tips.

"Filling up my 8th CD ROM with purchases/free goodies" I filled up 34 CDs before switching to DVDs. ;)

LOL@Karen ;) I credit when I can remember who made what I used in my render. Sometimes, I start a render, save it, and don't load it again for months, tweak it, and then post it. Also, it only takes a minute or two to IM someone and say "hey, that render you did was great! Where did you get that texture/prop/hair/background/effect/insertwhateverhere?" ;) MS

My gallery entries usually contain easily recognisable pay-for or freebie figures, but I usually put the name of the product in the post - there are still people who have no idea what HouseMouse is ^^ As for props and textures, I do try to include names of their creators too, as I use mainly freebies, and this is nice way to remind people that those items exist and are for free.

I just incorporate the credits into the picture. make it part of the art. E

let the site managers set up an incentive scheme where they give store purchasing points whenever somebody mentions a merchant's name and item used in a gallery submission. once the person accumulates a certain number of credits, then he or she is allowed to receive an item of some dollar value from participating merchants. (this post made possible by bondware, netscape and steve jobs, god bless his merry soul)

I try to credit everyone I remember. Problem is I'm just a dabbler. A scene can take me anywhere from 3 months to over a year and I often can't remember where I got the stuff or who made it. I just don't feel like spend hours of detective time trying to find out where all the stuff belongs. Like maxxmodelz says, IM the artist. I'm sure they'd be happy to tell you.

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I have to agree with the general consensus. The fact that people are willing to pay for the items I create is credit enough. Actually getting to see them used in gallery pictures is a bonus (and my happiest moments of the day!), and being credited in the text is double bonus :)

"I filled up 34 CDs before switching to DVDs. ;)" Worryingly similar to me. Can't wait for High Density DVDs to become commonplace, though.

I always post a full list of credits with the images I post, for both commercial products and freebies. :) When I first started using Poser I was SO grateful to those artists who listed what was used in their images. Not only did it help me understand how Poser 'worked', but if I saw something I liked I could easily find/get it. I've never forgotten that, and now I do my own list of credits to return the favour and to help any other 'newbies' that may have stumbled onto my gallery. My credits lists are also my way of supporting the merchants out there who make good quality products, and especially to say thank you to all the wonderful people who make freebies for us. And I use a LOT of freebies! I've had quite a few IMs from people in the past few years, asking how I'm able to post such detailed credits lists, so just recently I whipped up a quick tutorial on how I keep it all organized. It's a system that works very well for me, and I can find anything I need in my massive collection in under 5 seconds ... the product name, who made it, and where I got it from. :) The tutorial is "Organizing Your Poser Freebies" and can be found right here in the Renderosity Free Stuff. I also use a similar system for all my commercial products.

I always try to list the credits for everything I use in a scene. But when I use too many models and props, I skip it completely as I don't want to list some and not others. BUT I am always happy to reply to a message about this. And I agree with a few posters here who said that it takes a lot less time to pm someone about it than it would take for the image creator to look everywhere to find the products origins. However, I would NOT list credits for a model I bought if the merchant hints too much about giving credit. Like the others, I feel my money is credit enough so when I do list all the credits, it is because I want to.

Quote - Then people bitch and mourn at "vanity" folders, the ones that are named after the creator.

I don't :) That's how I save my things in my runtimes :)

8..34..;) I just did 144 the other day. One gross Poser stuff..;) I need treatment..;)

I think people worry far too much about things that do not matter much in the scheme of things. Post a product used list if you want, and if someone else does not, then PM them and ask what they used. And just get over it. With all the people here, its nigh impossible for everyone to conform to any on standard. Just learn to live with others peaceably.

144??? yep that's sick :)) lemme count.... about 12 with a dvd thrown in or two... wait three... damn! forget I said anything....

Quote - Just learn to live with others peaceably.

I couldn't agree more!!!!

When credits take control....

Dang, you're gonna get sued! You forgot to give credit to Microsoft, the creator of your PC and your ISP who makes it all possible :P

Message edited on: 12/12/2005 00:18

awwwman you are right.. Dangit. Course i forgot to credit my mother who gave birth to me.. my teachers who taught me, my friends who showed me.. my family who helped guide me.. Sigh Guess the picture just needs to go even smaller..

You'd be surprised by the subtle nuance of color you can get with an 8x8 image. Of course, now you'll have to add me to your credit list;p

elgeneralisimo, Stormrage: WHOAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA :D

(I needed a good laugh)

I usually credit my pics with the most important items I've used... but only when I start from the beginning. I work a lot with models saved in pz3 files with parts added from different packs, props, reflections... I'm a drawer, not a detective to follow all the details ADDED: ... on the other hand, I've purchased some products thanks to the credits the artists put in their artwork. Fcors, I see a nice model and I can ask the artist 'what model have you used?', but it's easier to read it in credits

Message edited on: 12/12/2005 02:13