The reason I ask is everywhere I post, people shy away from using XFrog plans because of poly concerns. However, I feel they are the best looking trees on the market. How severe is this cpu hit? Is XFrogTune almost necessary?

With the exception of the GroundCover library, all XfrogPlants libraries have been done with resolutions that range from 20-30.000 (less for plants and grasses) up to 500.000 which is approximately the upper limit. The average is between 100.000 and 250.000 for the majority of models. These are figures that are really average, but we managed to keep the detail quality very high. Then of course there are some models that required additional geometry to look good and in these cases we raised the polycount but always having in mind the 500.000 limit. The libraries have been built with the professional users in mind - and in fact have been used in several main picture movies. They would not have been used if they were inferior resolution. Of course if you want to populate whole ecosystems, it is better to use high resolution only in the foreground, and use other options for the background. XfrogPlants offer the customer some options: 1) The owner of Xfrog 3.5 can use the reduction slider that is built in within Xfrog 3.5, and obtain a polygon reduction that looks very good and is often more than sufficient for the task. 2) With every XfrogPlants library comes a set of professionally rendered billboards, one for each model, complete with embedded translucency (premultiplied alpha) and ready to be loaded within Vue's alpha panels. 3) If there is the need of a super precise control of the polygon reduction, then there is XfrogTune available. XfrogTune is useful (highly useful in my opinion), but it's not indispensable: if you are on a limited budget, you can handle polygon reduction with Xfrog 3.5 alone.

PS. I'm asking because I think I want to take advantage of Daz3d's sale ($45 off) and am not sure when that sale ends so I gotta make a decision soon.

I think the sale ends very soon, you should hurry. Doesn't remember the day right now but I think the last day may be today or tomorrow. Also Xfrog software doesn't go on sale very often, so this is another reason to take advantage of this sale while it still is available. It may be years until it happens again. last Xfrog sale that I remember happened about 2001 or 2002 I think.

I think there are several pros and cons in my eyes about XFrog trees. A lot depends what you plan to do. Pro: The look really good. Pro: There are a lot of ready made libraries available. Con: Indeed, the polygon count can be a problem. As with all imported items, especially when you need a lot of them in a scene. Con: All plants are static in contrary to the Vue native SolidGrowth ones. AND, of course imported plants do not react to wind as SolidGrowth plants do. Con: If you want to create plants for yourself the learning curve of XFrog is a little steep. I tested the Cinema 4D plugin myself and was obviously too stupid to directly start creating plants. As i was with TreePro, maybe the alternative to XFrog. Creates the same quality of plants but is way easier to handle. But you can't make plants for others, this is against the eula of TreePro. I personally mix therefore. Some high end ones for the foreground, Vue plants for mid- and background.

I'm not really too concerned with it fitting in with SolidGrowth, which I dont feel will ever have a good library and the look is kind of CG and unnatural. I want a quality look. I just wish you could have the option of paying a bit more, but picking your plants. Not to mention, there's region collections...but no midwest so nothing fits really. I'm still weighing if it's worth the $104...

I have a scene in Infinite with over 100000 xfrog trees in so I would say go for it while you can.

I think it's worth it. There are 60 models on each DVD, which is less than $2 each. Plus there are trees that just aren't available (like the tropical plants - love those). And they do look very good.

The only thing I dislike: there's some overlap between the collections. For example, four trees on the "Fruit Trees" DVD are also on the "Tropical" DVD. I, too, wish there was a "pick your own" option.

Don't forget you can buy single XfrogPlants species at www.turbosquid.com!! About the end of sale date at DAZ, I just checked, it's the 19th.

Turbosquid it is then. Each collection has like 2 or 3 trees I can use that look good and I cant warrant spending so much for just a few usable trees. I would have gotten the general collection if it just had an oak tree (the most common tree in midwest) but it didn't have it so neither it didn't grab my $104. More modeling collections need to be choose your own.

How do you find them at Turbosquid? Just search on xfrog?

I don't mind set collections, but I don't like the fact that the collections overlap.

you can search Xfrog this should give all items (beware there's a lot of them!) Xfrog libraryname (eg. Xfrog Japan) this should give (as in example) all items in Japan library plus probably all other species that are native of Japan and placed in other libraries you can also search Xfrog speciesname (e.g. "Xfrog Douglas Fir" or "Xfrog Pseudotsuga menziesii") and this will return all the instances of that model About overlaps: beware that not all species that are returning are overlaps! For instance, Apple tree in blossoming is, well, blossoming, and Apple tree in Fruit has leaves and apples. Also, in some cases the same species look different, for instance the Sorbus aucuparia in Shrubs library should look different (if I recall well) from the same species in the Basic library. There are species in Flowers that are flowers only, where in other libraries have the whole plant (e.g. Azalea, Bird of Paradise). Same happens with potted plants (e.g. Banana). There are several different cases.

Oof. $39 buck a pop at Turbosquid (why is TS SO very overpriced?). Well looks like my 3 or 4 worthwhile models in a collection is how it's gonna be then, regardless. Costs the same to buy 3 models as it does 20.

Not three models, nine models (3 species x 3 ages) Well normally (without the sale) the ratio is 5 single species (15 models) = a library. Of course it is always a better bargain to buy a library than single models. But cases may happen when someone does not care about one library, except for a couple of species. Say you don't like or need tropicals except for the Coconut palm and Sugar Cane. In that case, you have the option of buying only the two species that you wish/need and save (in case of two species) 71 dollars, which is not bad - it's half the investment you can make in a different full library.

Individual plants from the Xfrog collections are becoming available at Cornucopia3D in their 'Static Plants' section.

It looks like Cornucopia3D might be selling the DVDs, just like DAZ is. Though they're grayed-out at the moment, at least for me.

There not selling the DVDs, just the single plants. Each one contains 3 versions of the plant, plus billboard and the xfrog version.

Attached Link: http://www.cornucopia3d.com

yeah i was just about to post that, c3d is selling the plants one by one, just like turbosquid, but for a lower price then turbo squid. some are already available for purchase, objects/static plants in the store.

Hey, that Cornucopia price is a good deal! $15 per plant, 3 sizes, .vob & .xfr included, plus billboards! Still cheaper to buy the complete library, but even so. Only downside is that it looks as if they are selling only a subset of each library. I'll have to hope the Giant Sequoia is one of them...

nope every single xfrog plant will be available on c3d in due time, thats just the number of plants thats been made available as of now.

Very cool. Prices sound reasonable - high enough so there's still incentive to buy the DVDs, but not so high you feel stupid for not buying the DVDs instead. :)

Attached Link: http://www.xfrog.com

just wanted to pop in and make a few short announcements. the 30 percent off, on all xfrog products, on daz3d.com, ends in about 24 hours. all software we make is on there. and each and every XfrogPlants library DVDs contain the following - vue, bryce, max, maya, 3ds, obj, xfr, c4d, lwo. so you can use them with various packages, not only Vue. and yes, we have individuals on TS and corn. we have not advertised that fact at all so far. all models are on TS, in all formats... around 400 zips x 8 formats.....so you can pick any format, any Species. and slowly but surely the Vue format zips are going up on cornucopia. one special mention is Africa. we have not released Africa as a product yet, but you can get the individuals from TS and corn. Orio made Africa, and its one of his best works yet. about poly counts - we are above and below the complexity of the SolidGrowth models. (we targeted the range of SolidGrowth model poly counts during our preparations). let me know if you have any questions. and sorry for the shameless promo sale marketing. just wanted to say, there is about 24 hours left, and we dont do many sales. thanks for listening stewart mcsherry product manager greenworks organic software

thanks for the heads up Stewart and i dont see anything wrong with some promo sale talk since this thread is about your product/sale/daz and c3d :)

SO are the ones bought at c3d the same as if they were out of the dvd library?

SO are the ones bought at c3d the same as if they were out of the dvd library? The models and textures are identical. There is a difference of formats. With a whole library DVD you get the Xfrog format (XFR) plus all the other formats as well (Vue, Bryce, Cinema, Max, Maya, Lightwave, 3DS, OBJ) At Cornucopia with a single species you get the Xfrog format XFR plus the Vue format VOB. At Turbosquid with a single species you get the Xfrog format XFR plus one application format of your choice (you can choose one amongst those I mentioned above).

I forgot to specify, the billboards too are identical and included everywhere.

Attached Link: http://www.xfrog.com

the DVD libraries have 20 Species * 3 ages * 9 formats on the DVD. (540 3d models) the Turbosquid individuals are Species, you pick 1 format when you buy them, you get 3 models in that format, plus 3 Xfr, 3 billboards, and 3 perspective renders(tiff+alpha). the C3D individuals are in Vue format and Xfr + billboards + perspectives. shorter answer. yes. you get a .vob slice of that DVD Species. production note. 22 XfrogPlants libraries on turbosquid, is 22 libs x 20 Species x 8 formats = 3520 different zips, built and uploaded to ts with thumbnails and descriptions. no fun.

lol, nope, no fun :)