Photograf, "There is not only a language barrier issue at work, but a cultural one too." I think so too. :-) Bobette Bryan

Links?

"I will discuss and clarify that gladly with Bobette via email, but not here, with people, which do not even know the Poser Corner or are familiar with the German laws."

You have a poser store and this discussion is taking place among poser users some of which could become customers. I did not know of Poser Corner until this thread but if your site TOS is so flexible, as has been stated, I will cease my browsing of the site. Allowing your merchant to do what they did, and by stating they have the right to trump your TOS you indicate it could happen again, is unprofessional.
I think you'll find that to be the case of most potential customers.

I would like to know what exact German law she is talking about. Urheberrecht? If so, which paragraph specifically? Links, quotes, anything to do some further reading and understand why merchants in that shop are allowed to circumvent the sites TOS?

I`m the broker for the merchants products, not the copyright-holder of them. I can make guidlines but the last says the merchant and in this case I can not speak to her I said that before.<< You can set, as a condition of brokering at your store, that they agree to all the terms of your store license, including commercial usage. All the other Poser content stores do that.

Maybe anyone understand the Germans and Austrias Law about Urheberrecht! http://www.internet4jurists.at/gesetze/bg_urhg_inhalt01.htm And maybe can anyone understand that ava_lon in Germany doesn't has the right to say "Yes - use it!". She only can clarify the problem with costumer and merchant - hopefully with a good solution. And she can change her store rules for better and clearly trade in the future - best with a German lawer. But she doesn't can change the German Law and Poser-Corner is a German site hosted on German server. So I cannot change the rules here and the American Law. martian, every new merchant must agree the terms.

...and again: http://www.weinknecht.de/ojr/index.html?/ojr/1997/85.htm here can you read how hard the German law named Urheberrecht is. Sorry - only in German. And please don't forget all news about EU-rights!

You can set, as a condition of brokering at your store, that they agree to all the terms of your store license, including commercial usage. All the other Poser content stores do that.

Exactly. Honestly, it would never occur to me that Poser stuff I bought could not be used commercially.

"Exactly. Honestly, it would never occur to me that Poser stuff I bought could not be used commercially."

I couldn't buy from a store that doesn't stand by their TOS and keep their merchants in line with it as well.

Here's another question: are the README files made available before you buy the product? I went by the site, and couldn't find any links to README or license files for the individual products. (Perhaps I just missed it, in which case, ignore this rant.) If the README is not available, that means that you have to buy the product without knowing how you may or may not be able to use it! Now that would be utterly intolerable for a buyer.

aprilrosanina, see post #47. ava_lon addressed this issue.

Personally I don't think this is something that should be hashed out on a public forum. ava_lon and Bice are doing their best to remedy the initial posters complaint. Anything else should be dealt with privately so far as I'm concerned.

I don't think RO would allow their internal affairs and policies to be worked out in public. I'm not sure why this would be any different.

ava_lon has stated that the merchant is in the hospital and can't be reached. Until they can contact the merchant, they've removed those products from the store. They have offered Bobette a full refund of her money, and have offered to refund Bobette's customers too. Which is far over what any other Poser store that I know of would do. At the moment there is nothing more she can do about that particular item, and there is no point badgering her about it either. She and Bice seem to be working on amending their TOS to indicate that merchants have the final say about the usage of their items.

You should all give them time and respect them as merchants and allow them to work this out in private.

Message edited on: 01/19/2006 20:39

but what if in the future (not that i think anyone wil be game) one of us wants to buy a posercorner product - how will we know if it's safe or not - how will we know if the readme is available prior to purchase or if the merchant can decide the renders aren't for commercial after we buy the product etc how will we know the above if some peace pipe is offered to the particular buyer who first raised the issue in some private agreement and no one else posts because they all take your advice acadia? love esther

Quote - how will we know if the readme is available prior to purchase or if the merchant can decide the renders aren't for commercial after we buy the product etc

Because in Post #47, ava_lon stated that over the next few days she's making a link by each product to it's individual readme.

Because ava_lon and Bice have now added to their TOS advising the potential buyer to read the readme before buying the item.

Quote - if in the future (not that i think anyone wil be game) one of us wants to buy a posercorner product

And that's exactly why I think this should all be dealt with in private.

I don't think it's right that one problem should be blown so grossly out of proportion that it completely destroys what someone has worked so hard to build up.

Message edited on: 01/19/2006 21:15

OK, this issue is being handled by PoserCorner, so there's really nothing to be gained by continuing this dioscussion, so I'm going to lock this thread now.