Attached Link: Sad Departure

I stumbled across this today while surfing the gallery. What's with the people departing? Is it the performance of the web site? Sure it sucks but hopefully the conversion will remedy that. Is it politics with Redo management? That I can understand, as I at times have become enraged, enough so to delete my gallery on more than one ocassion, which after doing so pissed me off more than the reason for doing it. I've finally learned to ignore them and foolish site politics and stay focused on my work. Just how many people really *are* leaving? I don't care if some testosterone-drenched Poser artist with a passion for huge boobs gets pissed and leaves, but it truly saddens me to see the same thing happen in the Photography section of Rendo. There are some very good photographers here who are an inspiration to me and many, many others. I'm new to digital photography and I truly enjoy their work as an inspiration as well as for fresh ideas. Seeing them leave is heartbreaking. Seeing Pete leave is a huge blow to me personally. So I ask, what are the reasons?

Perhaps they don't feel valued here at RR

Im beginning to think it has to do with getting attention. I see so many people announce theyre leaving, making a big fuzz about it...then a few days later theyre back to posting. This is one swede youll never get rid of though. #:O) Richard said: "Perhaps they don't feel valued here at RR"...that should secure your presence then. Cause you couldnt be more valued here. #:O) ...i know...major suck-up there...but hey...thats our code isnt it? MAS4EVA!!!!!! #:oP

One thing I do know... Renderosity Photograpy section is running on a free ride on the back of a 3D art site. I am so lucky to be a part of a site which allows such huge file uploads, and extensive galleries.For Free! I joined many many other sites, and this is by far the best one out there. I challenge anyone to show me a better one. Seeing Pete go...sure is is hearbreaking. No one likes to see good photographers leave. Nope...not even me.Thoug some may not believe that. But I dislike seeing negativity and the dragging up of issues that have nothing to o with peoples own memberships. The Politics of this site are really fair. You read (or are supposed to read) a TOS before joining. The sign in aggreance. If a member interferes with the operations of the site, they are warned. Do it again, they are warned again. 3 Times it is a tempprary ban. Keep doing it after that time and time again, and it is a permanent ban. Why should other members suffer at the hands of others who see fit not to adhere to the guidleines. It's not a free for all site where people think the right to everything in the world is at thier hands here. It's a website. Owned privately. Specifically for people to share and perhaps make money from art. Many people who announce thier leaving usually return. For that I am happy. I do find it a waste of emotion deleting a whole gallery that took in some cases years to create. If a memeber tells me they are leaving I sure do not post it out publicly,because that brings more upset, and a lot of extra time involved having to read all the negative comments in the aftermath. If I left, I would just leave. Not make it a public statement. I would probably end up returning too, and would look like an idiot for causing so much outbreak th first time. I do like posting birthdays and other fun events. I love this community.

Oh yeah..I ould have said that too ...MAS4EVA

I agree with Onslow and with dBgrafix !

I must state publicly that I have learnt much more than I could I ever think in this site.

I am just an amateur and I try and try to do better every time I choose any photo to post.

Some of my posts suck ... but I keep on going and ... learning with some other posts and with constructive comments and with the lack of them !

I surely miss some members work but I am amazed with the excellent work of some new members that we (ought) should support with constructive comments.

Carlos.

Well said Carlos :)

Yes,Carlos,I totally agree.Well-said indeed. Okay.Now my 'two cents'... "Just how many people really are leaving?" That's the REAL question...if you ask me... When I first started 'coming to' the forum,there were some individuals here announcing their imminent departure.And I took it quite seriously.It made me feel really bad! But over time I noticed that they,in fact,did not leave,which is why I have to agree with Andreas.Now it ends up coming off to me as more of a cry for attention than anything else.Out of all those people I had first seen say they were leaving,(there were about 4 or 5 at the time),only one actually left...and that person still appears from time to time... So now I can't help but not take it too seriously...Call it a case of too much 'Crying Wolf'... I'm sorry if I sound cynical.Believe me,I know just how you feel.I felt exactly as you are feeling now.But you'll see... they almost always come back.As Doug says,it's the ones that don't announce it that really leave...So don't let it get to you too much...Ok? MAS4EVA

... I forgot to state that some important improvements [ like LAST WEEK IN THE GALLERY ] in this site encourages not only those who have their work featured to keep up their good work but also all the others to stop, look at and think about what kind of photography is worth seeing (and eventually commenting).

I know that the choice is quite difficult and some worthy work is left out.
As I understand that weekly choice has nothing to do with top rated or anything of that kind; it is just a small but excellent sample of what has been posted.

I must confess that I would like that this thread would have as much participation as possible.

Carlos.

I agree with Carlos, all said. If a person leaves, I consider that a "personal issue", whether some not related issue or a spat. I would not want to burn the bridge to Renderosity behind me. Believe me..this is THE site (and free to boot) that beats the others in my learning curve, in fun and I believe in "fairness". Last Week images are an excellent example of what is posted many of us might otherwise miss. And, this gives those photographer/artists a chance to visit the forum. I am pleased with the work of the mods on this forum and would have a hard time thanking them enough. Tom.

@dBgrafix; Very well said! As a very infrequent uploader/poster here in the photo gallery, I feel somewhat reluctant to comment ( I spend most of my time on the Terragen side)...but as with any community....people come....people go. Those that leave of their own accord...well, only they can explain why it is that they left. I can say that the time I do spend here in the photo gallery is time well spent. There are a lot of very positive, helpful folks here...it's not only the amazing talent and images as eye candy, but there is also lots to be learned from every one of them! Take it all in!....Like Doug says...its a free site, for people to share, to learn, to exchange ideas and, perhaps to make some money. What more do you want?

Wow! Ok take this from someone who has deleted her gallery more then a few times to seek greener pastures... I won't do it again publicly anyway, I would prefer to just delete it and go unnoticed if there ever is a next time... While some members saw my leaving as a slap in the face or humiliating to them, let me explain what I think is the main reason I did it. I never meant to slap anyone or humiliate them if that makes you feel any better. I have never thought that I got the recognition I deserved here, very simple. You can read one of my rantings under the first post in my gallery under the name of Nilla. I also suffer little bouts of depression when I have done this in the past, so maybe that is part of it??? Yep probably. And I have always felt guilty about never having enough time to participate as I would have liked to, but hey what can I do? I can't manufacture time to spend here because days only have 24 hours in them and I have to work and sleep at least 16 of them, I also have to balance friends, family, hobbies, pets and relaxation in the remaining time, and no matter how hard you try you can't make a day 36 hours long. The leaving, banning or censorship of other members is just an excuse imo, or it was in my case me thinks. Sure I was angry when it happened, but I don't think I will be deleting my gallery because of it again any time soon. I joined other communities as you will read below, and guess what? It isn't any different there and each community/gallery comes with its own set of problems. Many don't have forums where the members communicate such as this, and many would have deleted this thread just because of the content! Think about it! I return here eventually, because it is the forum here that keeps me coming back, and the wealth of knowledge that I can find here in this forum. I personally don't like being second to 3d programs, I think they mostly suck, but without them this site wouldn't be here would it? I also think that the photography section of this site is popular enough and could sustain itself on it's own. It needs to break off and become its own site, but hey that is just my opinion. Here is a recent reply to a question asked about those other communities: I learned tons at Use Film but the censorship thing is/was out of control there, I have been getting letters from a few members recently about how bad it is. I also joined Fotola I think it was, I was like a grain of sand in a desert there, or at least that is how I felt. I also started a gallery on photopoints, hard to navigate for me, but I started getting the hang of it... wasn't a bad community I didn't think, but I never found a forum where I could ask questions and learn. I liked the fact that when you uploaded your posting there it was anonymous for 24 hours, so unless you signed your work, no one knew who you were. I uploaded a few images to Dc mag as well, wasn't impressed with them either! Scratches head Seems to me there are a few more, they left such an impression on me that I can't remember them LOL! And of course there is Photo-Genesis, a wonderful place but it is privately owned and invitation only! OK that is the run down! I like being here and I like the new improvements being made like LWITG. I don't comment or post much, sporadically if I do, and know that if I pay you a compliment I truly mean it. I don't know Pete's reasoning for his departure, we each have our own reasons for doing the things we do, we are each responsible for our own actions. If he decides to return he should know that he is always welcome. Brenda :)

Can I just say something for myself to stop all this random and boring debate! I'm developing my own site, that's all...okay! I'm constructing my own personal webspace and if I continue to post on here I will have no new material.IS THAT NOW CLEAR!!! CAN WE PLEASE STOP THE SLAGGING MATCH NOW! It's got jack-shit to do with "attention seeking", that's the last damn thing I wanted! Hence that I couldn't and wouldn't respond to your totally unnecessary comment...you did yourself no favours there. Now...LET THIS WHOLE THING BE DONE...I AM GONE...feeling satisfied now?

DarkestAngel, I did not know you were going and certainly would not question why. Tha 'tis your business, not mine. "I do not know who Pete is." I wish you the very best in your personal web site..that in itself is an accomplishment. Much of this is not slagging but personal comment on generalities of web forum life and personalities. No offense meant to anyone, I am sure by the posters here. Drop by when you feel like it and have the op to do so. Tom.

Whoa...I'm sorry to say, but I think this whole thread should be either locked or removed. We really need to stop "assuming the worst" as it causes more harm than good around here! I honestly got caught up in it all too earlier, but after thinking about it more...just removed my posts! (After reading DA's comments...I think its for the best!)

(Coming to the end of posting on Renderosity and will soon be joining the other talented photographers who have since departed) That was all He said.....and those that are in the Position to do alleviate things....just made it worse...it is time to look at...Yourselves. MAS4EVA!!!!!!

lock the thread...this is getting no place productive. Enough kindness is here and concern. Go anywhere on the web and personalities move from place to place and all have the disgruntled ones...some for good reason and some just being their own media personality. go ahead..lock the thread. I much rather enjoy other topics and this one will not be solved here, if indeed there is actually something to solve which I tend to doubt. My 1/2 cent. Tom.

People come and go on this site and many other sites, all the time (myself included) probably because they have other projects and concerns to attend to. Yes this is a great site with many great people and artists, but its not the be all an end all. I feel for DarkestAngle as they seem to have been pre judged with little knowledge of the facts, at the end of the day without facts any speculation is for the most part pointless. Personally I wouldnt delete this thread as I feel it is a good lesson for the future. I personally feel that it is important (especially with text based communication) to be mindful of peoples feelings, all to often I see good intentions misinterpreted and potential upset caused. A bit of netiquette doesnt go amiss, if you wouldnt say it in person dont say it on the web.

Ok, let's see where it goes. I don't have to read it. We each do have "media personalities" and when some fit or position causes another part of us to show in text, it can be a mistake. Stuff I do not worry about at home is not worth worrying about here. Stuff I worry about in everyday life is not worth worrying about here. I have said too much already and will go to zzzzzzzzzzzzzland...for sweet dreams of sugar plum trees and the perfect image of those...thanks to the stuff I have learned here and even passed on to a few more newbie than I. It is worth it.

Words can be very powerful.It is always important to consider one's words carefully...especially in environments such as this,where they will be subject to interpretation.

Pete may not have meant his statement to be taken as it was...but in light of recent events,how could one not 'read' them that way?

"... and will soon be joining the other talented photographers who have since departed)"

It may have been totally unintentional to have his words appear as a commentary on his disillusionment with RR,(as he now avers),and I fully understand that misunderstandings can easily occur...So if that is genuinely the case,it is indeed misfortunate.

What it should tell us,is one must carefully consider and weigh the possible interpretations and ramifications of what we say and do on the 'net'.

A simple,"I'm leaving all you wonderful people to start my own website.Wish me luck!", would have been much more effective and genial...AND less open to speculation...

I guess there is a lesson here for us all.If I misunderstood you,Pete,I am genuinely apologetic.I am well aware of your literacy,being one who has been following your work for some time now,and has championed your gift with prose as well as photography.If you were not so talented at expressing yourself,I would never have misread you the way that I did.

Therefore,my apologies and best wishes to you on your new venture.

PS I would not like this thread locked.I see it as necessary and beneficial at this time of change and upheaval...

I really need to remember to use my spell check.

AW! Sooo not a problem,Doug. As long as you are heard and understood...that's all that matters... :^)

WORDS can be taken "out of context" and perceived in MANY ways. This thread is a prime example of this very thing. Thats usually how problems start, even if it wasnt the intention.

Going back to the main question about this exodus

Yes, many talented and inspirational artists have left Render for one reason or another. We can debate the whys or how come someone leaves, but is it really accomplishing anything? Why create all this fuss? Last time I checked, no-one is obligated to stick around here! Even if an artist leaves as a form of protest, that IS their choice to do so!
We dont have to necessarily agree with that decision, but is it really the end of the world like its being made out to be! No, not by a long shot!

Its funny, when someone, shall we say well-known or popular leaves the waves that are caused here. If youre loosing sleep over this, cant get through the day because of it, then you really need to look inside yourself and do a reality check!

Fact of the matter is the people who left are a very small fraction of the Render community. There are STILL many, MANY, talented and inspirational artists posting and sharing their images/artwork. Many of them are just starting out and need encouragement and advice to get them more involved. These are the people we should be focusing our attention on. Those artists, who are often overlooked, never get the spotlight or a chance to shine. Theyre the ones that dont feel valued here and end up leaving the site, but guess what.no one bats an eyelash or rallies behind them when THIS happens!

If you truly believe that Render is what you make it then maybe WE should step up and do just that! Everything goes through cycles and Render is no different. Change can be a good thing! Instead of living in the pastwhats happened, its time to move on and direct our energies to making this a better place for those still around and new artists alike!

L8r!
Joe

Another long thread in what appears to be the Forum's favorite topic! Tom I think had the comment with the most wisdom, "I don't have to read it." People come and go, for good and bad reasons. I know that I first came to 'osity because I was learning Bryce and Poser, and this is absolutely the best place anywhere to learn and interact with folks with similar interests. I found the Photo areas somewhat by accident, as at that time there was never much photography emphasis in the "front page." Alpha (the Mod at the time) praised a couple of my first postings. Praise is a wonderful drug to attract a crowd! Interacting with the folks here encouraged me to get back into photography; something I had neglected for many years. I was learning new things from the folks here, and I also felt I had something positive to contribute. Having, or at least believing, that one is contributing positively is a very valuable thing to have. [The flip side of this is when one believes their contrabutions are not being appreciated, it really evokes feelings ranging from anger to depression. I understand the folks who delete their Galleries; I do not agree with the action as it seems to provide nothing positive, but I do understand the emotions causing it.] After some time I developed friendships with a couple folks here, (or not here anymore), and these friendships took on greater importance than the site itself. The downside of this is it led to acusations of cliques, and just being a forum to pat each other on the back. Fresh ideas were needed. The site needed to evolve. I do not stop off here much anymore. [When I'm feeling grumpy, I add, "and no one really misses me very much."] Hopefully it is because I've moved on, and am finding praise and meaning elsewhere. People come and go. What's the surprise in this?

Well I am not here as much either, more because of other commitments/projects than not enjoying Rosity and all it has to offer, but when I am I miss you Misha, I find you to be a great source of wisdom and knowledge, I have learnt much from you and many others here.
Thats enough praising for one day!

More recently I get more pleasure out of the forum than the gallery, not to say I dont like the gallery, but I dont feel that I need the reassurance on my work so much now as I did in the beginning.
People come and go, thats the way life/forums/work etc is, its no surprise to me at all, I do it myself.
Simon

Message edited on: 01/29/2006 12:22

"I do not stop off here much anymore. [When I'm feeling grumpy, I add, "and no one really misses me very much."] Hopefully it is because I've moved on, and am finding praise and meaning elsewhere."

In a nutshell, thats really all that needed to be said.

Folks, I didnt mean to re-open what appears to be an old wound here. I apologize if I rumpled the feathers of a few of you. It was merely a question, nothing more. If itll make you feel better to consider me nae, then do so. I was hoping Renderositys explosive atmosphere of late hadnt extended to the photo forums. Silly me. I agree, people move on. Thanks for enlightening me. I will say that this forum and the Terragen forum seem to be among the most stable here.

Pete sent me an e-mail explaining things, Im satisfied with that. Thanks, Pete.

@Brenda: Thanks for remaining calm and levelheaded. Very good words.

Ill extend an olive branch to all here by saying that I truly enjoy this forum and admire the creative work of all of you. As I said above, Im new to digital photography...but not new to photography in general. When I was in my late teens and early twenties I had several cameras and associated equipment, I even developed my own film. I gave it all up because my new bride constantly complained of the chemical smell downstairs in the basement.

She was no fun. She was right, but she was no fun :)

Ive been spending quite a bit of time over the last few years trying to rediscover my artistic abilities, and found them via Terragen and other similar software. I can say I met with rather good success. But that school has let out for me emotionally; Im simply burnt out on it. I need to get outside and capture what mother nature has created. She does a much better job of it than I. My apologies to her for implying that I could.

I started lurking in this forum and gallery three or so months ago, and doing so rekindled my fondness of photography. Last month I purchased a DSLR and bringing that camera home immediately reminded me of my passion of the past. Hefting it in my hands makes me feel like a kid in a candy store, but with the non-stop rain here in Oregon this winter, Im finding that candy securely locked behind a glass display case.

How many pictures can one take of his dog sleeping on the living room floor? Oh, about sixty-three, I can honestly say.

Spring cant come quickly enough for this kid. Or at least a partly cloudy sky.

I look forward to posting my work as soon as weather permits, in the mean time, Ill continue to enjoy yours.

A sincere thanks to all for your replies. The moderator can close this thread if he wants, but if it were me, Id leave it up in the event some other nae git wanders in and asks the same question.

Peace...

-Steve
Message edited on: 01/29/2006 15:08

Damn, I had to comment here, seeing as how in the past I've been an offender with this subject on a couple of occaissions - mostly through personality conflict with individuals and never due to the great group of people as a whole who make up this great community. I've also apologised profusely several times and at this point in my life wonder what the hell the fuss was anyways. My Bad, to use a recent-learned phrase over here in the US ;-) As visitors here, whether regular or every now and then, we live our lives away from the forum a majority of the time. As such, there is a massive amount of what goes on in our lives that may negatively affect us, and like any place where we feel comfortable with the people around us we like to vent. All of us. It is when that venting either becomes extreme or other people vent back it can get out of hand, as I've both witnessed and been a part of. And yes, some of it IS attention seeking, but in different ways for different people. Some want to hear the "oh, don't go" and others want people to see things the way they do. Some are just tempramental punks who didn't know better - but enough about me.... lol We only see what people type, not what they think. We don't see the mood they are in, whether upset, angry or whatever. We interpret what we read according to OUR OWN mood at the time. Maybe once in a while we all need to sit back and reset our feelings on the other people around us. Trust me, it's a good thing to do. I did it a few weeks ago, indeed let the people involved know how much I admired their work, and feel much better about being here when I do drop in. Admittedly, not much at the moment due to circumstance, but hopefully a lot more soon. Anyways, like usual I've rabbitted on too much. Misha, Good to see your name up there still buddy. I remember those days ;-) Take care all! Mike. p.s. As regarding locking threads, I'm glad the Mods leave it as a last resort. Gives numpties like me a chance to comment. Even if I didn't see it that way in the past. lol.