Can anybody tell me if you are allowed to offer for sale a .pz3 file based on the P4 Male or Female? I see lots of people offering .pz3 files for free but are you allowed to sell them? Jade

Yes and no If the file has custom geometry in the figure then it can be used w/out the mesh and therefore is illegal

Depending on what was done to create the figure, the geometry of the figure might be completely contained within the PZ3. If this is the case, you would be selling (or distributing for free is just as bad) geometry created by Zygote. If the PZ3 file references an .obj for its geomertry (and requires it to load), you would be free to distribute it.

BTW, I'm going to go on the record here and say that I hate it when people send pz3 files instead of cr2's. Everyone uses different document window sizes and background colors and all that stuff and it's just a pain to set everything back to the way I like it. Sure, I could import, but I never think of this until its too late.

Anyway, sorry bout the mini-rant. Hope this helps.

When I save a file Poser creates a PZ3 file. How do i know if an OBJ is in it? DOes it have an option to not having the obj included?

all pz3 files are based on object files. The .obj file is the mesh, under the figure. However, if you use a 3d program and substantially change the underlying mesh, if could become "your" .obj file. No, you can't have a pz3 file without an underlying .obj file. You will get a message that poser cannot find it...and, then, quite often, Poser users get that dreaded "Out of memory" message. Since you seem to be unclear about how to change .obj files...why not just sell your textures, and poses, face...etc. I am guessing that this how you went about changing your figure.

When you use the grouping tool on a figure's body part, import meshes into your scene or several other things, Poser stores the geometry of these items within the .pz3 itself rather then refrencing back to an .obj file. Open your .pz3 file in a text editor and look for lines 'geomCustom' followed by several lines that start with a 'v' (followed by more lines with 'vt' and then lines that start with 'f' ... this is standard obj format). This means that geometry is stored in the .pz3 itself...and if you didn't create that geometry then it would be illegal to distribute it.

What was the objectives of having the geometry stored in the PZ3 file? We all know that OBJ or geometry file cannot be redistributed. Why Poser store them in the PZ3 instead of just saving what has been changed?

Thanks for all the replies on this - Curious Lab's legal dept. has been contacted but no one's given an answer yet. Jade

Nitreug,
Poser stores geometry info in the pz3 so that it doesn't screw up your original files. Lets say you loaded Victoria and used the grouping tool to add some new materials...for example, made all the faces on her right hand a new material called 'glove.' In the obj file loaded in your memory it adds a line 'mtl glove' before all the 'f' lines (faces) that make up the hand. Now you want to save it to a .pz3 (or a .cr2 for that matter, honestly) it can't re-write Victoria's original .obj file because then Victoria would load with a glove material from whatever .cr2 or .pz3 you loaded her from. Instead, Poser creates a 'customGeom' inside the .pz3 or .cr2 for any body part you used the grouping tool on and when it loads, instead of calling the original body part from the .obj, it loads the custom geometry that's saved there.

Now, lets say you were making some sort of skintight suit for Vicky (or any other copyrighted character) and used the grouping tool to assign a new materials all over her body. You save the .pz3 or .cr2 and put it on the net for people to download or buy. Anyone with a text editor and a knowledge of the .obj format can extract the info they need from the .pz3 or .cr2, save it as an .obj and open the file in any 3d program that can import an .obj. Whether they own the original Vicky character or not, whether they own Poser or not.

I hope I'm making things clearer and not confusing the issue more.

TRUTH IS, NO YOU CANT, NOT UNLESS THE MODEL WAS MADE BY YOU. CURIOUS LABS NOW OWNS THE COPYRIGHTS, CURIOUS LABS IS THE PLACE TO ADDRESS YOUR QUESTIONS ON COPYRIGHTS ALSO DAZ WHO MADE THE MODELS FOR THE POSER 4 PROGRAM. Most people here will tell you. You can sell the brooklin bridge, So be careful excepting advice from people who want to turn a buck thier way and try to offer you advice that may be outside the guidlines of your software license agreement. Check with the copyright owner for answers if you want the lowdown on the deal.

Thanks JKeller. When someone put a PZ3 file on the internet, do they remove the OBJ or Geometry information from the PZ3 file before uploading? Is it only the grouping tool that make the obj inserted in the PZ3? (I never used the grouping tool to change material, I always use the render material window)

If the person has enough knowledge of the .obj format and the .pz3/.cr2 format they can fix it. Compose and CR2Editor would be great tools here.

Like I said earlier, geometry is stored in the .pz3 for any body part that the grouping tool was used on, any meshes in the scene that were imported in, and any props or hair props that were originally created by importing a mesh in. (BTW, the grouping tool can't change a material, but it's great for assigning new materials as well as several other things. I use it a lot, but not on characters I plan to ever distribute.)

Hope this helps.

So if the grouping tool was never used the character references the origional rather than embedding the .obj?

If you never used the grouping tool, and if you never used 'Replace body part' (which generally entails importing a mesh at some point) the file should entirely reference the original obj rather than embedding it into the file. It still may embed geometry for the hair or any props you have in the scene. If the prop is a primative, or something you created then you're cool, but if the copyright belongs to someone else, you will need their permission to distribute.

BTW, using the grouping tool or 'replace body part' does not embed the entire figure, just the body part in question...it still references the original .obj for everything else. Also, it's always a good idea to check in the .pz3,.cr2 or whatever to be sure, just in case there is some other factor that I can't think of, or I don't know of.

I don't know if this helps, but a trick I use on occassion is to move the geometry stuff to a temp folder outside of poser and then try to open the .pz3. If it opens -the geometry is contained entirely inside, if it fries on open, it still references the origional. Checking with a text editor would be simpler, but reading 3d file formats as text gives me brainache. ;]

It's a good idea Ironbear, but the problem is that we are talking about portions and not completes. If someone were to edit the references to the original .obj out of the pz3, how much of the figure would be still be available to them?

Would it be enough to do them much good? If they have poser, no problem. If not, and they have Maya, Lightwave or a full fledged character modeler, they probably can either do their own or afford the good stuff from ViewPointDatalabs. It's only the warez kitties that are going to steal the geometry, and they'll steal poser also so it's an effort in frustration. The honest people will buy it to begin with, you can't stop the dishonest or we wouldn't have drugs on the streets. ;]

Well, it depends on how much data was there as to whether or not it would be useful. The .pz3 could contain all of Vicky except for her eyes and it would still pass your test. That would be useful (Maybe I haven't found the good stuff at ViewPoint yet but I think that DAZ's stuff is way better). And is there any such thing as a truley honest person? Locks keep honest people honest.

Then there is the ethical part of this. Even if the Poser dork's foot is the only geometry contained withing the .pz3 you are selling, you are still selling a file that contains copyrighted material. It's like selling a book that contains a chapter out of a Stephen King novel. No-one is necessarily buying it because of that, but if you didn't get permission, it's still wrong.

Good points... have to disagree on the Viewpoint vs Daz on models though. ;] Definately on Zygote vs Viewpoint, which is where I see most of the "comparative" items. Wasn't disputing wether it was still illegal, just questioning wether or not people actually made use of extracting data from .pz3's. And locks keep dishonest people honest. Honest people are honest wether it's locked or not. If you need a lock to keep you out of someone's home...

Again, there's no such thing as a completely honest person. There's also no such thing as a completely dishonest person. There's just various degrees inbetween.