I grew up a bit in Communism. You couldn't talk freely, the press was muted, you had 2 hours of TV every day in which the 'dear leader' was raised in the high heavens about how he went to a factory and that day production was raised 2000%, you weren't allowed to go to church, etc. ...and other anecdotal stuff such as cars only being allowed to drive on Sundays if you had even/odd numbers (It's the 20th? crap, I can't drive to the movie, my license plate starts with an even number). ...Or if you were a pilot in a hijacked plane and the powers that be placed a tanker full of gas at the end of the runway and ordered you to plow into it, unless you lifted off the ground and took people to freedom. Kill 140 souls, any price to pay for bad press/propaganda in the West. Now Communism only exists in a couple of places on the Earth, it's been banned from our thoughts and a wave of freedoms has washed over much of the countries previously behind the Iron Curtain. And how we rejoiced, and how we now cherish those freedoms which we were not allowed to have for half a century. I'm not sure if any of you can truly comprehend the idea of an absolutist regime without living in one, if you can understand the horrors of such places. Being beaten, tortured, hanged, murdered, electrocuted, force-fed excrements, ANYTHING to break your will... for you had signed a false testimony 20 beatings before, after you had been forced to stand up for 4 straight days... Freedom of speech, freedom in general, is indivisible, and to quote Kennedy, 'when one man is enslaved, all are not free.' A week ago or so some cartoons were published that stirred extremist-led hatred and propaganda. In countries where freedom is just as lacking as in those former Communist countries. As sensitive as the issue might be, I plead to you as someone who has seen both sides of what the world could be to protect that freedom of speech. While you should do so with common sense and decency, never forget that the mind of man can be sometimes all too inventive when it is bent on breaking his own soul. drac

For fear of having this thread locked, I will endeavour to be moderate in my comments. I agree with you whole heartedly Drac. I personally have be extremely irate over the reaction of a certain sector of humanity over what they feel to be blasphemous representations of a reveered personage. It is, in my humblest opinion, an ideology we can do without on this planet. Sorry, but that's the way I feel.

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Well, they say "The Pen is mightier than the Sword"..... seems to fit what has happened in upsetting a certain race of the world but, come on, its a cartoon. Do these people not ever hear of jokes.......its been going on for hundreds of years and I might add, to conjure up hatred to others too........its how they are being seen in the so called 'Free world'.....perhaps its time for them to look at them selves before citing war unto others who laugh for a very short time at a joke they saw in a news paper.......I say, (and not regret it) GET A LIFE...YOUR DEAD A VERY LONG TIME!....... Marc

What is truly sad (apart from what Drac said) is that we have never seen these 'cartoons'. Our tv won't show them and if they have I haven't. And if we haven't seen them then we can't comment. I remember when The Satanic Verses was publish, most of the Muslim world wanted Rushdie dead on the say-so of one man who had not himself read the book. The so called Muslim Extremists show us what a world controlled by Islam would truly be like. We would be governed by rules that mean we could not paint, draw or render, for - according to the Koran - only God may do these things and for us to create them is blasphemy. Yet hypocrisy is rife amongst the so-called extremists. The Koran also says that man should not let the blade touch his face. Which means if I understand it correctly that Muslims should not shave. And yet how many Muslims have you seen on the tv with only a moustash instead of the full beard demanded by the Koran? They do not want disrespectful cartoons and yet they burn our flags and demand that we as unbelievers be beheaded. As for all of those above this post, I may not agree with all that is said in this world, but I will defend to the death their right to say it...

Makes me laugh when you say their not to draw, paint but their quick enough to read,look,draw maps of targeted places, use western products, watch free talking TV channels,dress,get free medical, eat and other western customs but quick to moan about western things........I think this topic will be locked...... Marc (No more)

Well, Sweden is way up on the anger list right now and i can perfectly understand your point. However, i must point out that theres much more then a few cartoons behind this hateridge, and that extremists have pretty much taken advantage of the whole story for their cause. Right now, i feel that both sides are equally rotten. Denmark is known to have a great deal of racism, even far up at government level, and although they claim its all about freedom of speech, it can just as easily be considered a provocation. Also keep in mind that Denmarks prime minister had an opportunity at an early stage to calm things down, but refused to meet with representatives from a number of muslim nations, hence made things worse. I personally fully respect all beliefs and have some understanding in muslims beeing pissed of because of this. However...theres no justification what so ever in the actions with threats and violence. These action will only fuel the prejudice some people have about muslims, and unfortunatly cast a very dark shadow on the majority of the decent people that live in these countries, and wants peaceful solutions just as much as the rest of us. Media have no interest in shooting the peaceful bunch, thats boring news. In normal order, they focus on the juicy stuff, preferrably something that contains violence, death and mutilation. Im all for freedom of speech, but theres nothing wrong in showing some respect at the same time. And that goes for both sides. Anyway, this is just my humble opinion, i dont expect anyone else to share it. :) Damnit, i just broked my 10 sentence rule...

Well I lived over there in Islamic coutries>(Saudi Arabia ) for a few years. And I know a bit about how oppressive the places are. I Read that there is the rub to this this is was planned by the Saudi's. Saudi Arabia was suffereing a lot of bad press in the Muslim world because of the recent deaths during the Hadj pilgrimage. To divert attention away from their own shortcommings they told the Muslim world about these cartoons that were already yeasterdays news when they said it. They got what they asked for.

the thing i find disturbing is that you can hire one fool to draw or render a piture that could start a new world war people plz keep your heads cool.

@ Drac A forefather of my country once said 'Give me liberty or give me death' Freedom was foundation of US. I wish more of my countrymen realized how honored we are not to live in the situation you grew up in. @ everyone I must also remember even greater words once spoken-- "You hypocrites, first take the log out of you own eye, and then your will see clearly enough to take the speck out of you brother's eye." Politicians, and religious leaders everywhere should weigh every statement before uttering them. Most of us 'people' of the world would rather have no wars or threats of wars. I often wonder how Muslims say Jesus was a great man and prophet (not Messiah) and totally ignore teachings of said prophet that are so contradictory from some its extremist views. Finally, We are so blessed to have the freedom to converse with each other here openly and honestly. I shall always remember to honor anyone's right to disagree with me. Willie

ysvry.. one man's food is another man's poison. the media is a strange world. one can take up any issue.. make it into a big thing..and have WW3 starting.I find that a nitemare. especially when we have pple who intensely believe in idioms so much..that they'd kill for it.......

Attached Link: http://blog.newspaperindex.com/2005/12/10/un-to-investigate-jyllands-posten-racism/

just incase u didn't see the cartoons...

gad..I wonder who's watching that URL..sigh..Those who would trade a little liberty for temporary safety deserve neither-misquote of Ben Franklin..
I guess I'm getting cynical in my old age; I have heard that there are those in the Muslim world who are using them for their own agenda..and this after we get accused of manipulating news stories..sauce for the goose, I suppose.
The problem is there are those out there who just keep up the 'winning at any cost' scenario up, regardless of costs.
Continuing in cynicism mode, I'm alternating between admiring watching Europe 'grow some', and wondering about the 'cultural sensitivity' that we're often told we lack. To quote another person (fictional) People individually are smart. Collectively they're dumb, stupid, and panicky
-another misquote..;)
We have to walk a fine line between cultural sensitivity and creeping 'incrementalism', or what they called 'salami slice tactics'. Getting a balance between accomodattion and respect is one of the hardest things to do diplomatically (hey, just ask Drac, he's the expert..;)
The saddest and most ironic thing to me is the fact that mothers and families all over the world have to explain that 'Daddy died over a cartoon'.

Amen to all the posts here from my very good friends. We are indeed blessed...hang tough.

These protests of violence, vandalism and murder are an insult, a disgrace and defamation to the Muslim faith in general and the good people that follow it. It depicts them as a faith of double standards, violence and intolerance. It is increasingly being viewed worldwide as the faith of Islamic terrorists. This faith has been hijacked.

How does this compare:

In 1987, a picture of a crucifix submerged in urine and blood was put on display in New York using federal taxpayer dollars. Outraged Christians gathered to protest, write letters, and call their Congressmen. No one was killed.

At the same event, British citizen Chris Ofili put on display a painting of a black Mary (mother of Christ) surrounded by pornography.

Another work of art by Ofili consisted of a painting of a black Mary with elephant feces slapped onto it. Outrage consisted of letters, protests.

Right now, at the White Cube Gallery in Hoxton, you can see the latest work of Gilbert and George, mainly devoted to attacks on the Catholic Church. The show is called Sonofagod Pictures and it features the head of Christ on the Cross replaced with that of a primitive deity. One picture includes the slogan God loves F***ing.

In 2004, Theo van Gogh, a Dutch filmmaker, was murdered for his movie Submission about the violence against women in Islamic societies. Mohammed Bouyeri stabbed a note to his chest threatening Jews and Western governments. Van Gogh's sidekick for the film, Hirsi Ali, was also threatened in the letter.

In 1989, Salman Rushdie published the book The Satanic Verses which depicted the Muslim prophet as a businessman. He was sentenced to death by the Iranian government. Both the book's Japanese and Italian translators physically suffered at the hands of Muslims, one was murdered and thirty-seven people who came to hear a speech given by one of the translators died when the hotel they were at was torched.

Pakistani citizen Ghulam Akbar was sentenced to death in 1998 for speaking out against Mohammad.

Abdul Hasnain Muhammad Yusuf Ali was sentenced to death for "defiling the name of Muhammad".

Hashem Aghajari told Muslims not to blindly follow their religious leaders. He was sentenced to death by Iran in 2002.

Whats wrong with this picture? :

Muslim extremist fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage (en masse).

Muslim extremist officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim extremist cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim extremist murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim extremist murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and
hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.

A Muslim extremist attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim extremist slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia.
Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim extremist kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim extremist fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim extremist murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and
busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim extremist massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim extremist murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim extremist newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage

Muslim extremist beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.

It is obvious to some here that this situation has been instigated by certain governments to redirect attention from internal strife. The cartoons in question here were published back on September 30, 2005 and now they have surfaced and been passed out by certain governments like Syria, Iran and state sponsored terrorist groups such as Hamas to light the flame of hatred.

Islamic depictions of the prophet Muhammad historically have been found in manuscripts and Islamic art. Here is a site with archives of historical images of the prophet including the now infamous Danish cartoons.

Archives

I sincerely hope that the Western Nations honor the freedom of expression which is so very dear to us and sets us apart and not cave in to the Islamic fundamentalists hysteria of hate.

I have said enough about this in other forums. I do understand the feelings of muslims being insulted with such cartoons, but the cartoons were not the reason for the outbursts, just an excuse. In Israel there was a football match between a overall Jewish team and an overall Arab team. both playing in the liga. The Arab team played very good. The Jewish supporters shouted "Mohammed is a homo". The Arab supporters shouted "Hitler should have finished the job". The day after (it was discussed in the news and the papers and all the country spoke shame of it) we laughed on it at work (I work in a company with about 200 Jewish workers and 250 Arab workers) and that was it. There is a mutual understanding and respect. Where such things don't excist, mistrust and fear grow, as is the case between Israel and the Arab world, the Arab world and the west etc. Besides that I dislike the double standard of muslims who for decades insult us jews with antisemitic cartoons most horrid (newspapers, state TV, internet, not just lately but for DECADES!!!!), where antisemitic cartoons lead to antisemitic education, leading to antisemitic actions like suicide bombers etc.

whatever is said about the all-importance of the bless of freedom of speech is true and right. whatever is said about motivation and activities of muslim extremists is true and right. no doubt, no second guess..... but PLEASE keep one thing in mind: it takes hands and guts to knock your enemy down. it takes a brain, a heart and a spine to make him be your friend. This is the very difference between barbarity and civilisation.

@marcfx: Please don't call muslims a race. As for comments from me: The whole mess is far more complicated than it looks at first glance, most suprising is that Egyptian newspapers published the same cartoons only weeks after they where published in Denmark, and until now there have been no wide-scale protests in that country, and there are more muslim country who somehow seems to avoid the whole controversy. So i am not going to condemn one of the sides in this shitty situation, both sides are right but also wrong.

@RobertJ Perhaps the wrong wording but :- RACE = Descendants of common ancestor; distinct variety; descent, birth, family; Breed. RACIAL = Of race or lineage. Just trying to find a right word for a grouping of religious people. Sorry if offended. Not my intention.

Its alright, we just need to be carefull.

That sums up this whole topic doesnt it.

Marcfx: I suggest the word you are looking for is: 'Sect' - body of persons sharing (usu. unorthodox) religious doctrines; religious denomination.

Excellent thread :) In any democracy- for EVERY position a person can take there is ALWAYS someone else to disagree. From outright attacks to satire. This is inherent to and the advantage of free thinking peoples. The lack of outrage in the Islamic communities over the treatment of infidels" darn near eliminates any sympathy which could have been given. The very fact of calling us infidels' has dehumanized us. Creating an atmosphere of hate and intolerance in the Muslim world. You can kill us because we are not your kind of believers and thus have condemned souls. Making us expendable in there world.' Where was the outrage when a mans head is cut off and shown on TV all over the Muslim world? Crying and begging and screaming in pain as the knife sliced his skin and muscles and tendons. Down to the bone. And all that time he was STILL ALIVE. Where was the Muslim outrage? That done by governments and that done by INDIVIDUALS are two different things. The Barbaric actions of individuals in the Islamic world are at least as equally reprehensible as ANYTHING that the government has done at Abu Grave(sp?) prison. The peoples of the west have/are taking action to stop it. Yet in the Islamic theater of influence no broad public outrage over the treatment of infidels is forthcoming. No protest, no riots, no religious leaders have stepped forward to condemn any of it. Only on western television at the continuous prompting of the interviewer has the occasional' timid half apology been given with qualifiers. The need for respect so often given by middle east experts' may have some validity. But this is NOT the way to achieve it.

NO, you are not asking for our respect, you are demanding our SUBMISSION!

Though I do not agree with the violent ways in which some muslims defend their religion and/or culture, I think it's important to remember that islam does actually not support this. Actually a story in the Quran tells how the prophet Mumammad came to a city and tried to convince the people to his religion. But the people attacked him, insulted him, when finally he escaped the city an angel came to Muhammad and asked him if the city had to be destroyed. Muhammad told the angel no, don't destroy those people. What is wrong here is complete lack of understanding about islam, muslim culture, local politics, the cultural opinions and public opinions about these politics, etc. etc. Time after time the US, but also other countries as well as the soldiers sent to the countries turn out to just not be well educated about this. And then here we come, telling the muslim people "Hey we're going to teach u how to set up a western democratic society and releave you from your current regime and don't worry, we respect you guys". We, the self-proclaimed "great mighty western world". We, who just go about offending, insulting not only muslim culture and islam but also our our own cultures and religions! Yes... very surprising that our current ways of "helping" muslims around the world is not accepted...

Attached Link: http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/mohwar1.html

I disagree. Mohammed was actually himself present and participating in the first massacres of the Jews of Mecca and Medina. http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/index.html

Seems ironic that in the act of protesting a cartoon, the only action they serve is to reinforce the very stereotype it portrays. The shortsightedness of these fanatics has done a very good job at making a mockery of their own cause. But I suppose it'd be difficult to explain that to such people without getting stoned. Shrug Another fine example of crowd mentality and lack of independent thought. Also I doubt this was just some random mob. Somebody had made an effort to set off these people because it's doubtful that they would have ever seen the offending material under normal circumstances. (Heck, how often do European editorial cartoons "in poor taste" get published in the U.S.?)

Attached Link: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3212713,00.html

Quoting a Palestinian American journalist "The whole Danish cartoon episode would be funny except that people on both sides really dont care about the issues. Each side is using the incident to justify their own anger against the other. The real issue isnt that a cartoonist insulted the name of the Prophet Mohammed or any religion. Its that there is an underlying hatred by the West of Islam and by Islam of the West. Its been going on for centuries."

Please dont put too much trust in what television and newspapers are feeding you. As i mentioned before, the media have no interest on showing the people that actually preach for peace. Violence is more interesting. If i just take swedish media as an example. Weve seen VERY little news about imams all over the world urging people to calm dawn. Different "experts" warn about travelling to countries like Egypt, Tunisia and Marocko, yet swedes living in, for instance Kairo, as we speak, experience nothing but hospitality and kindness from the Egyptians. There are extremists in every country. Sweden have new Nazis, yet they hardly represent entire Sweden. Neither does the extremists on the evening news represent all muslims. These groups are a small minority, and selldom very popular in their own countries either. Everyone should be as wise as the Bryce community here. Hours of discussion, yet no personal threats or harsh language. ;)

I hope that you will come and save some of us yanks when they finally install all the cameras and we watch over each other like good little patriots. After the borders are locked from the inside letting out only the super rich. After we submit to opening our computers, documents, homes and lives for the always present FEAR of terrorism. After the media feeds us lie upon lie blamed to be liberal but following a conservative agenda! After we have given up our freedoms to become a watched society under the guise of PEACE! They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom. -Malcolm X If you want to be free, there is but one way; it is to guarantee an equally full measure of liberty to all your neighbors. There is no other. -Carl Schurz Someday the country that thought it could save the world may need the world to save it! -Abeverage Drac whatever you and your generation do! Dont forget the country that inspired that freedom!

The cartoons in question were published in Denmark in september. Reaction at the time was a small protest by Danish Muslems. A few days and it was history. The current furor is to apply pressure to Denmark which now has a vote on the atomic energy commission. The protests are to stop Denmark from voting to take action against IRAN. End of story.

It is exactly because of this fanatical fervor in these theocratic countries with ties to terrorist groups that have vowed to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth and see the citizens of western cultures as infidels that we should make absolutely certain, at all costs that they do not acquire the ability to enrich uranium giving them the capacity to produce nuclear weapons of mass destruction.

When i said be carefull i should have mentioned, on this forum. Well it is still civilised discussion without name-calling, so far so good.

And Drac comes back in the forum and says??????......." "

So far so good, amen. If this discussion had been happening in our old OT Forum, physical blood would have spilled by now. Thanks people. :o) AgentSmith

It all leading up to a One World Gov. they the real ones behind this. Just to get things going so they can get into power. Nothing new it; old as the hills. They have they men on both sides just to get things off balance. That my two cents. There a lot of stuff on the net about this too. And in the Bible too that tells about the One World gov. and the rise of one man who will lead this world. I beleive it part of the plan now to weaken the gov.'s of the world more. So some one can come along to show them how to do it right and it will be the Man of Sin and his number will be 666 and he will not be good for the world.

AgentSmith the watcher. Jocko the wise. Me thinks Bryce community could do better job of public affairs than most leaders of world seem to be doing, if this thread is any indication.

"If this discussion had been happening in our old OT Forum, physical blood would have spilled by now." Ahh, the good old days. ;-)

yeah good times...good times

Jocko: I heard that the number 666 is in fact wrong, that recent translations suggest that the number is 999.....what you are quoting does not say 'man' but 'beast'.

Lets play it safe and keep our eyes peeled for either number.

I did not put down any Bible verses but in Revelation he is say to be "beast" 2 Thes. 2:3 he is called the man of sin do a google on man of sin and you will come up with a lot of imfor. as for the 999 first time I hear of this

There's been a bit of "back and forth" with various Bible verses since the new translations of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the NET Bible, etc. But, whichever it is, I'm sure to notice either of those numbers! AS

Attached Link: http://www.cuttingedge.org/pages/seminar2/NUMBERS.htm

http://www.cuttingedge.org/pages/seminar2/NUMBERS.htm here is a link that people may like to look into about the 666 and the 999 and many other numbers like 333 and 777 and so on

@vile- told ya I misquoted it..;)
long story short (as we say 'round these parts), talking about all Muslims being alike is about as correct (and counterproductive) as saying all Women are alike..
There has been an ideological effort by some Muslim nations (like Saudi Arabia, which is really run by one family, who likes us, over a nation of millions, who don't) to promote a fanatical Wahabi version of Islam by opening Islamic schools that profess their version of Islam.
Muslims are all over the map; Sufis, Wahabis, Sunnis (actually Wahabi is a subsect), Shia, and even more versions I'm not up on.
On the rare occasions that the History Channel isn't showing 'Modern Marvels', they show some religious stuff, including a show just on Revalations. The 666 was possibly a reference to Nero, his name almost added up. The Hebrew alphabet of the time didn't have a seperate number system, so there's lots of numerical 'puns', etc., which have a vague tie-in with the Kabala.
The New Testament wasn't written by committee, but it was edited by one a coupla centuries or so, by the Church. A lot of stuff that 'didn't make the cut' was known as the Apocrypha (sp?).
All 3 religions come down to us through oral tradition. Judaism did have another tradition of universal literacy, in their defence..;) I'm not sure how long after the revalations by Gabriel were actually written down after they happened. But there's always been some lag time, some possible revisions, etc. Actually, the Muslims have a high regard for innerrancy, so they may be more accurate on their texts, I don't know.
welp, that's enough blather for now..

Attached Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati

here is one of the groups that is trying to take over the world and on the link to the numbers you see one of the founders Adam Weishaupt useing the number 7 just do a google on Illuminati and yiou got a ton of links

Beware some of the newer tranlations of the Bible. They are not based on the same manuscripts "The Textus Receptus" as the king james bible. And Some are begining to leave out important stuff. The new living translation I looked at Removes Some Important stuff Like 1st epistle of John 5:7. they took out the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, just one of many.

Message edited on: 02/11/2006 22:24

Yeah, I have had KJV Bible Vs. the newer Bible discussions with my brother...those points can be difficult to sort out for oneself. Important thing is to always keep seeking the truth, imvho. AS

Sounds like we're getting a little off track here but these are all interesting points even if they're not all on point with the intended topic in the here and now, but makes excellent discussion topics of a theological "what if" and conspiracy theory nature. I'd like to know if the West is intending to give up liberty and freedom in the face of terrorist intimidation. Or will we face it head on and nothing will come of it from the fundamentalist extremist end. How will this play out on the world stage and will Iran stop their pursuit of nuclear enrichment.

Attached Link: http://www.swordsearcher.com/resources.html

Yep I looked into the KJV Bible Vs. the newer Bible issue for about 6 months. Then I had to make a decision about the issue and move on, it can be a distracting rabbit hole of an issue but like you said I wanted the truth. I had used the newer versions over the last 15 years and decided that for me the 1611 King James with New King James Parallel Bible works. The New King James has it's problems to, but I need it to get through the sentence structure of the old. Then for the meanings of words in 1611 KJV I use the following. Noah Webster's 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language Over 60,000 word definitions, frequently using Scripture as examples. This Dictionary is huge and pricey. Most recently rather than sifting through many books I found this on cd. Seems pretty good for the money. I'll be studying the Bible on Laptop now. Here's a link (God Bless) If anybody is curious about what I found out during those months I looked into this issue Just IM me. I'm here to help. If you're going base you're life on Someone and Something that is explained in words, The importance of the accuracy of those words should be a consideration.(God bless)

I would have to agree with Rochr on this. every country has their Extrimests. and the Media, showing nothing but bad news and hatered is not helping the situation. not disrepecting the media, but for the love of Bryce, show something positive.

Unfortunately with the news, (imo) we still get a lot of the stereotypical "if it bleeds, it leads", with their news stories. We all do need to be informed of what is going on in the world, I just wish I wasn't constantly inundated with the same horror story over and over until its exhausted whatever ratings they can squeeze out of it. There are MANY good and great stories out there. They just don't stimulate the masses like small good deeds do. Again, unfortunate. Yet...there is always changing the channel, and hanging out at the Bryce Forum, so all is well...;o) AS

Not 1 minute ago as I sat here reading this, the Weekly Standard here in the United States has decided to print the cartoons in defiance for whats going on in western European nations who apparently are starting to fold over Muslim violent intimidation. The editor of the magazine said that such uprisings are not expected to happen here (obviously meaning with the same magnitude as in Europe) since, he says: because Muslims here in the States are more patriotic to the US and realize that more news worthy and important things are happening in the world. Well, guess well just have to wait and see if the Muslims will go ape shit here too or will there be bloodshed in the streets with opposing groups or just simply, very little protest will ensue. It remains to be seen. But Ive noticed that Iran is continuing to thumb its nose at the world and proceeds with its enrichment of uranium.