Hey everyone. Like the title says i am completely new to 3D anitmation(besides playing around with limewire) and ive always wanted to get into it. I am currently making a series with a game called "The Movies" and i find it so limited it what i can do and i wanted to see what else was out there. Another user mentioned Iclonen and i have checked out Que5 as well, but i dont know which i should go with. Iclone seems easier for beginners to use and i think you can do lip sync and 3d environments. And with Vue i know you can do environments but you need poser(tired demo, might be too complex for me) or something else to do animations. Can anyone point me in the right direction...and please not towrads the dorr :) thanks, Rich

try poser again. the introductory version (Poser 4, pro pak or poser artist) is the easiest 3D app you'll find IMVHO. the later versions (5,6,7) are better for shader geeks or people with extensive 3D experience.

I think i tried 6 and i cant seem to find 4 anywhere. If I use poser then dont i need to buy a separate program to put the animations and characters into a background or whatever you call it?

Message edited on: 02/14/2006 13:33

poser 4 became pro pak, which became poser artist (sold by e-frontier). we call it a "scene", and poser artist can render/animate a scene with various figures, props and background items or images. however, it is at the bottom of the 3D pecking order, hence you won't get any respect until you graduate to what the people in this thread are using. but first you must learn the basics.

So what about Iclone...does this do the same thing as Poser? Or is Iclone something no one has used?

give it a try and report back to us, rich. I've heard things about it, but don't wish to be prejudicial.

richke, in order to give the best advice possible regarding your choices, I for one would need to know if you are serious about learning 3D animation, or if you are just interested in it as a perpetual hobby, and nothing more?

For serious enthusiasts to 3D character animation, I'd recommend downloading Maya PLE, and doing as many tutorials as you can find. There's lots of free meshes available out there that may not be the best, but will help you get going in the area of learning to rig a character, and afterwards, animation.

Even if you've never so much as animated a bouncing ball before, you can learn to do that in Maya PLE as well. Learning the basics in Maya will definitely give you a much more secure foothold in advanced animation techniques later on, and will translate to many other applications well.

On the other hand, if you have no interest in eventually learning 3D in more depth, and all you want to do is animate some simple things for fun, then just about any application with a timeline and basic keyframe capabilities will do.

Message edited on: 02/14/2006 21:44

You can also try blender. It's free, and suppsedly the latest version was really good.

Luvver to answer your question i dont plan to make a living off of it if thats what you mean. I like to make movies, i guess and i dont really have the talent to make my own original characters. So i guess im looking for an application that allows me to manipulate existing characters or make characters very easily, edit motions or create motion easily and then throw them into an environment where i can put everything together and make a short movie. I looked into Maya like you suggested, but im just getting started and i the cheapest thing i saw was like $2000...little bit out of my range :) I will look into blender, but since it's free im guessing it wont be that good. I'm not looking for character creation and movement..i guess im looking for a whole package. And when i was browsing this site i saw that people have made(mostly women - nicely done, but holy crap can we make cooler things then really hot anime woman :) )police buildings and diners(which i think is awesome) and i saw they went with poser. So if i get a certain app are there only certain things i can purchase or will the things people make work for mostly all apps? Sorry for the questions, but like i said i know nothing? And i really dont want to go over $300 :) - so im guessing that will limit alot of my options. Thanks again, rich

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez?viewStory=11361

Thanks nemirc....i saw i could get this bundle that seems to have what i would need. Click here to purchase the Vue 5 Esprit, Mover 5 and Poser 6 bundle for $299* (normal price is $607!). But would these applications be past my level or is it something i would be able to pick up easily? sorry to be a pest...

I consistantly hear pretty good things about Blender. With Poser, there is a ton of content available. However, Poser is not set up so you can easily create your own. If you're creating a movie and want an object you can't find (sometimes something as simple as the perfect table lamp) it's good to have an app that can actually build models. Blender will fit that bill. As far as the Vue, Mover, Poser bundle, that's probably a good starting point. Poser 6 has some advanced functionality that might take a little getting used to - especially compared to Poser Artist - but ultimately that gives you room to grow and growth can be fun. As far as object compatibility, most of the things labeled "Poser" are specifically for Poser and use Poser file formats. However, there are a number of other file formats - OBJ, for example - that can be imported into or exported out of Poser and are compatible with most 3D apps.

I will look into blender, but since it's free im guessing it wont be that good. I'm not looking for character creation and movement..i guess im looking for a whole package.
One thing.... things are changing a lot.... what once used to be some college kid's "project", and had MOST of the bugs out, isn't the standard any more. Blender is an extremely sophisticated piece of software, and is finding more and more acknowleged use in commercial 3D animation. I am not taking you to task over this, but I am pointing out that "If it's free, it can't be worth much" doesn't apply here. I am not recommending Blender as something you want to use... but if you ever become interested in creating from scratch, it's well worth keeping in mind. As for something "static" that has content you can experiment with, try DAZ.... It's also free, and has a considerable compatibility with Poser. You can find the link at the DAZ forum..... Beware, though... more than one person has been bitten by the 3D bug. more than anything else, though...HAVE FUN!.... Lou.

Message edited on: 02/15/2006 09:46

Thanks for the info Bobasaur...that info is very helpful. Of course it brings me to another question :) I understand that there can be objects and props in these programs but I am also very interested in the interaction between them. what program would give me the ability to have a character walk a certain distance, pick up a gun and fire it. Do any of these programs have premade animations for the character/object interaction? Do these programs have the ability to import pre set animations made by the community? Basically I am looking for premade characters, scenes, objects, but with the ability to alter them how I want or create new ones from scratch. Also the ability to select from premade animations but have the ability to alter them or create new ones if needed (easier the better). The more interaction between the character and the scene the better and lip sync is always a plus.

As far as pre-created character/object interaction, I'm not familiar with many. I've seen a few sword fight sequences, and other things where characters interact but I don't know how common they are. There are, however, all sorts of character animations out there - and Poser imports BVH (motion capture) files which can be found on the net. Some are available here as well. Poser also comes with a number of animation poses. Basic lIp sync can be created using Mimic - from DAZ. It will actually create Poser files with lip sync and head movements. It's a pretty good start, but for super precision you'll end up altering the results a bit.

I checked out mimic...nice feature to have. I see they have a free demo i can try when i get to that point. I think for the most part i have all the info needed to make my decision on what application set im going with, pretty sure its going to be the poser6/vue5 Easel/Mover5. But my newb questions continue on... I checked out DAZ and i see all these content packages that you can buy, what are these? I'm guessing they are just content packages you import into poser or Vue(if .obj)and do what you will with them...am i correct? I pretty sure this will be my last question..until i get the software, then watch out :) And yes i have been bitten by the 3D bug...i hope it doesn't kill me when i can't figure crap out :) thanks, Rich

Yes. I hope it doesn't kill you either, cause there will be times you can't figure crap out. That's why I first came to this place many years ago. Don't hesitate to ask. Also, don't be surprised if there are many ways to approach a task, with different people preferring different methods. Try 'em out and see what works best for you. Come to think of it, I once saw a 'crap' content package as a freebie...

Thanks again...probably buy everything tonight. I'm sure you'll see me again... thanks again to all you for your help. I signed up at the Daz forums as well, so maybe ill see you over there...but you pros probably don't need to buy other people's creations...maybe in a couple years you'll want me to do some animations for you....j/k keep an eye out for RTKIII Productions and Animeabe Studios...

"but you pros probably don't need to buy other people's creations" Just for the record, this is not always true. Different people have different talents, likes, interests. I'm a storyteller. I also do my own music. Therefore it's a lot of work to create my animations. I can model basic things in Lightwave and I do when I need to, but once again, my interest is in the storytelling, not the modelling. Some people are interested in the modelling. Or the animating. Or the lighting. They will use other people's music if need be and may never animate a full short video story. Check it all out, and find out what you enjoy. You may surprise yourself. And don't forget to post things here in the forum and in Renderosity's Animation Outlet. ;-)

I think im more into the animating...but i dont know yet. I will definately try my hand at everything i can. I'll look you up if i need some cool sounding music in my short films. Right now we "borrow" songs from this free music site...nothing wrong with that just need to give them credit in the credits...

Attached Link: http://www.artofillusion.org/

Whatever software you choose for, don't forget to get yourself a couple of books on animation like 'The Animator's Survival KIt" by Richard Williams. In the end, a 3D program is nothing more than a very expensive sort of pencil, you'll have to do the actual animation yourself (all pros I know set keyframes every second frame, fiddle around with the graph editor like forever and only make sparsly use of the automatic interpolating functions. Learning about the basic animation principles - besides mastering the whistles and bells of your particular brand of 3d software - also may take you well over a year. Don't get discouraged by a steep learning curve.... If you plan on creating your own models, art classes and anatomy studies will be called for as well. At bigger studios pros tend to be specialized. There's a TD (Technical Director) an Animation Director, modellers, riggers, animators, set lighters, texturers, compositors - everybody does his own little thing...