I just saw a "Space: 1999" branded item in the 3DS Max Free Stuff section. When was the copyright policy changed to allow people to use copyrighted names in the title of their items? Or is the copyright policy in the 3DS Max Free Stuff section different from the copyright policy in the Poser Free Stuff section? The "Space: 1999 Commlock" model looks like an excellent item and I'm not picking on the artist (who may or may not know the latest changes to the copyright policy). In fact, it's the opposite: I'm picking on the mods who allow some branded-named items and not others. Why are items with "Star Wars" names not allowed, but items with "Space: 1999" names are allowed? In case the Free Stuff tester doesn't know, "Space: 1999" was the name of a TV show in the 1970's: http://www.space1999.net/ http://www.space1999.org/ http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=space%3A+1999 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006FD8P/104-1171494-0203963?v=glance&n=130 (The boxed set on DVD.) --John

Well IMHO i think the starwars dudes are more on edge with Copyrights etc etc. And some others don't hunt for the last cent on copyrights. The name JEDI Jabba the hut Luke skywalker etc etc etc etc. Are all trademarked by lucas arts. So non of those names can be used if you wanna be 100% safe. But rules are rules on that point your right... I do wonder how on earth or any other planet in this case, are we gonna make people know what is what .... Do we realy start to say space 1998+1 "Star rumble" or something like that. :} C.B.

What about that complete set of Babylon 5 Branded Space ships in there?

? where? I've searched for B5 ships, and invariabley (or practially so), they've all been pulled from their respective sites..heck, I've had to make my own..;)

Freestuff Here under the 3DMax heading if the mod's haven't snagged em' off already. By the time I saw John's post about the Space 1999 Comlink it was gone. I snaggeded the Babylon 5 space ships before posting though so Pbbbtttzzzz! Raspberries to whoever's pulling these things offline. ;)

my information indicates that lucasfilms is well aware of both theforce.net and hoagland's site, and that they are not concerned about those, nor are they interested in sites like the 'squid. they are seriously concerned about pirate DVDs from PRC and elsewhere, however. if y'all have interest in the matter, just contact their legal staff in san francisco (the presidio).

I think any studio that bites the fans that feed them is just plain brain dead! That's my stance and I'm sticking to it. Fan art has always been in homage to what we like, not to how we can rip off the original artists.

There is a Movie that take 45 minutes about the starwars sage. There is everyting in it just like the original. The only thing they had to change is the name. It was called starwars revolutions ... and lucas art just say's take of the starwars part ... And to be honnest it a nice movie :} The 3D fx are great the acting... mmm well they don't get oscars for it :} Its a Free downloadble movie, even in a DVD iso format. So lucas arts is not that bad a company....

Revelations, like the New Voyages are well made fan based projects. And as far as I know, LucasArts and Paramount are in full support of them. In fact, on the DVD release of Enterprise, the makers of the show (Berman & Braga) comment on the efforts of New Voyages and how well it was made (despite the acting). As for copyright, it seems to me that it is applied willy nilly by the mods who themselves possess diametrically opposing opinions on various material.

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Unlike lucasfilms, viacom (owners of paramount) are more serious in their policy against many cases of unauthorised fan activities. contact them in new york for further clarification, if interested.

I just want to be clear about this thread: The issue is not whether we can or can not make copyrighted items. And the issue is not about how companies may feel about "fan art". The issue is also not about whether we can post these kinds of items on this site. All of these issues have been discussed to death and you'll find huge messages threads about all of these topics in the Copyright Forum. The issue here is that some items with copyrighted names seem to be more "allowable" than others. By approving the "Space: 1999" items, the mods are basically saying that they are acceptable, but items with "Star Wars" names are not. I don't see the difference since items that use copyrighted names should be treated the same. But, like I mentioned above, maybe the 3DS Free Stuff section has a different copyright policy. Free items are held for 24 to 48 hours for "checking"- isn't that plenty of time to do a Google search for possibly copyrighted names like "Space: 1999" or "Babylon 5"? --John

"Free items are held for 24 to 48 hours for "checking"- isn't that plenty of time to do a Google search for possibly copyrighted names like "Space: 1999" or "Babylon 5"? " when I raised this point before (many times before) I was repeatedly told this was not why the items were held..... why they are held, I was not told at all...

I did say that your absolutly RIGHT on that point. What Rules to one should rule to one other. There can't be a double standart on those rules A: Clear all names to be used. B: Rule out all the Copyrighted Names in all section. Having a two standard rule is unfair. But to that point i also think it unfair that someone can make and SELL addon products "textures" for example. For other people's product without permission of the maker of the orginal item. To me thats almost the same as the copyright thing here. C.B.

Just wanted to chime in and say that this is my biggest peeve about Renderosity! No two discussion groups are administered alike, and no policy is EVER administered equally across the entire site and to every person. In one group ads are hunted down like witches, until even innocent praise is condemned and moved because of wording or the assumptions of an individual about the relationship of the poster to the merchant, while in others the mods DEFEND the person(s) placing ads, while openly accepting gifts. Copyrighted material is accepted by some while from others it's tar and feathers time. My impression is that each individual Admin and Mod has pretty much carte Blanche' when it comes to the policy much less how it's enforced. I Just REALLY wish the owners of the site would make the policies CLEAR to the members AND to the MODS and ADMINS, it would make it really easier to participate and be much less frustrating! mike (can you tell I've been burned once or twice?)

Thanks for the headsup John, the 3DS Max Moderator is taking care of this. The Babylon 5 items were placed quite some years ago, before Renderosity was aware of all the legal implications. To be fair, I've never heard of Space 1999 so I guess that's how this more recent one got through. It's not possible for one person to have knowledge of all existing trademarks so that's why we rely on you guys to let us know if we drop a wossname. Thanks again, Karen

"To be fair, I've never heard of Space 1999 " oh ok... The series has been shown in the UK, Italy, France, US and Canada on and off since 1975... it's very easy to miss I know...

Attached Link: http://www.clivebanks.co.uk/1999%20Intro.htm

OMG! You've never heard of "Space: 1999"?! It's a cult classic! Of course when I watched it I was seeing it for the first time and not in reruns. I haven't seen an episode of that series in years. I'd love for TV Land to bring it back.

To be fair, I've never heard of Space 1999 I knew this was coming... and this shouldn't be an excuse for letting things slip by. If you're in the process of approving items, it's safe to assume that you're connected to the Internet. And if you're connected to the Internet, it's safe to assume that you'll be able to access Google or other search engines to see if "Space: 1999" is mentioned as a copyrighted name on at least a few of the 600 billion web pages in existance. And no offense, but the excuse of "I've never heard of it" is almost an open-door for people to upload obscure things (with copyrighted names) to the Free Stuff section and see how long it stays there, un-noticed by admins who don't know about pop-culture. And as Khai, said, why are free items held, if the mods aren't checking for copyrighted names? The Babylon 5 items were placed quite some years ago, before Renderosity was aware of all the legal implications. Actually, my "Doctor Who" branded item (the TARDIS) was uploaded long before the new copyright policy, yet that was deleted immediately when the new policy took effect. Is this another case of the admins not knowing that "Babylon 5" was copyrighted name? --John

it amazes me more that Karen, who was born and bred and lives in the UK managed NOT to ever hear about Space 1999, (according to her Bio she would have been 2 when it was first shown, and I know it was repeated on saturday mornings every coupla years on ITV). I grew up there (only left 2 years ago to emigrate to Canada) and even the shows I did'nt watch, due to advertising - reading TV listings - just talking with other human beings, I still know the names.... eg I hate football. yet I still know the name 'Footballers Wives'... I did'nt normally watch BB2 around 10-11pm.. yet I know of Newsnight...

Regardless of Karen's memory bank contents, She's not the moderator in question here who slipped. These files are/were in the 3DS Max Freebies section, not the Poser section.

I want to say that I am NOT pointing at any one ADMIN or MOD. I believe this is a problem with the OWNERS of this site. They are ultimately responcible for the TOS and how it is administered. If there is a problem with administering it fairly across the boards they need to step in, make some solid decisions and instruct their staff as to how those decisions are to be carried out! Until that happens there is always going to be these disputes and problems. This seems to crop up about once every 2 weeks or so. I just have a hard time believing that this situation has gone on this long. If the owners even scratched the surface of these groups they should see there is a problem with educating their staff and correcet the situation. Unfortunately I guess they haven't paid enought attention to the operation of their site. This seems to crop up about once every 2 weeks. mike

" Regardless of Karen's memory bank contents, She's not the moderator in question here who slipped. These files are/were in the 3DS Max Freebies section, not the Poser section." Karen is the Freestuff Moderator. there is no 'free stuff 3dmax moderator' or 'freestuff poser moderator' - fyi.

Seeing as how I don't recall ever being told that she was the only freestuff moderator out there, pardon me. It's also been implied/suggested in this very thread that there are other Free Stuff Moderators for the other software sections. I seem to recall someone just accusing me of jumping down their throat recently and now they're doing it themselves. Pot, Meet Kettle!

I took the information from the Rendo information as listed on this site and from previous converastions on this very matter. I also left the msg brief as only convey information only and no to cause you/give you offence.

No, Khai, that's not right. Mizrael is correct. Mods are responsible for their own areas within freestuff. I handle all the Poser freestuff, and can sometimes get called in on TM/copyright issues because I am the Copyright Mod. Karen :-) PS Didn't watch much TV as a child (or as an adult for that matter), I was usually outside climbing trees or playing swordfights on Saturdays ;-)

but Karen you have previuously stated in an older conversation on this very matter, you alone were checking the items. when did this change? as to watching TV... sorry.. I just find it strange you did'nt know it, cos there were comics, toys, modelkits, books even ice lolly's all with Space 1999 plastered all over 'em...

I've always checked all the Poser items since I came on staff. Perhaps that is where the confusion arose.

As we all know, Mods come and go around here like new ideas. Maybe at the time she said she was the only one checking freebies they were lacking people, I don't recall the post you're referring to in anycase and things do change around here from day to day. It's best not to assume that what's been said at any given time has been written in stone for all eternity. People as well as opinions change. For instance, I used to think you were a really neat person til you sent me a rather hurtful IM in response to a heartfelt appology I sent you. Now I just think you've gone too many axes to grind.

just drop it. lifes to short. I've dropped it already and moved on. I suggest that the same is done your end, since you are the only one now carrying the matter on.

Why Narc on the free stuff? Anyway I'm much more concerned with the stuff in the MARKETPLACE. There are a couple of anime and video game characters in there under different names. Like what if some one bought "Space armor" in good faith and used it commercially not realizing that it was Samus from Metroid's armor?

I think that if whoever owns the Space1999 trademark is unhappy, let them complain, otherwise let it rest. This is a trademark issue not a copyright issue. Also, AFAIK, trademarks expire a lot sooner than copyright, so Space1999 may not even be a live trademark any more. There is a searchable database of US registered trademarks, live and dead, so you can check if you're really interested. (I'm not.)

Geez, I grew up watching Space 1999, and so did my wife, and she's from Portugal. She learned how to speak English watching that show. As Phantast says, and as far as I know, copyright infringement policing is the responsibility of the copyright owner. How often have you gone on vacation and seen dozens of Yoda T-shirts on sale. Do you think these sidewalk vendors are paying a licensing fee? I don't see why you can't accept everything, and let the trademark or copyright owner complain once its up. If they don't complain, leave it up.

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I don't see why you can't accept everything, and let the trademark or copyright owner complain once its up. If they don't complain, leave it up. Leaving aside the ethical considerations - because the first person to launch a suit for damages would bankrupt the site, probably. Please remember this part of the upload agreement: By providing a link to a Free Stuff item, you are representing that you are the sole owner of the intellectual property being offered. You agree to indemnify Bondware Inc. in any dispute which may arise regarding products that you offer through this site. Despite the disclaimer, I doubt this site's ability to get any idemnity payment from a freebie provider whose offering infringes someone's IP. So... this series, it was by Gerry Anderson, was it? but a live-action series? The info I've found on the web indicates it aired in the UK originally in 1975, at which point I was two years old... and the last episode came 2 years later... so still not really of an age to be interested ;-) The site I looked it up on is Space1999.org and seems to have quite a collection of meshes on offer (free.) They also have a link to something called GAMMA which is the Gerry Anderson Model Makers Alliance. By the way, I've never seen any of the Star Wars films, either. Does that make me an utter philistine? ;o)

By the way, I've never seen any of the Star Wars films, either. Does that make me an utter philistine? Yes ;)

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makes me wonder where you live... and how I move there! it sounds like heaven.. total peace and quiet...

If I may make a suggestion... Why don;t the Mods get to gether and make a PUBLIC LIST of copyright/trademarked names that CAN NOT be used for free stuff or mercahndise. It probably won't be complete but can be added to when this type of issue comes up! being publicly published this way of handling things would go a LONG way toward establishing Fair and Impartial exercise of the TOS on this site. Of course this assumes that fair and impartial handling is the goal... mike

It wouldn't help. Besides, everyone who uploads freebies is aware, or should be after reading the upload guidelines before hitting the send button, that intellectual properties that are not their own are forbidden.

Don't tell me that someone uploading "Star Trek Spaceship NCC1701" or whatever they call it, doesn't know that it is based on someone else's intellectual property or that using the Star Trek name isn't an infringement.

Also, I seriously doubt that JH is upset that there are great fan models being offered here. It's the fact that it's not being properly moderated across the board in all the various freebies areas. Whenever he has offered stuff in the past and had it pulled, it's kinda a slap in the face to him as a freebie provider when they go allowing someone else to do it

I gotta say though, not everyone in the world is aware of everything that's popular and I doubt that anyone can say that they do. Giving mod's grief for not knowing that something is trademarked or copyrighted is uncalled for. Simply point the items out and let them fix it. Sheesh!

Has anyone ever watched latenight with Letterman, or Conan or whatever show it is that they ask people on the street questions about things that should be common knowledge, like who's the current president and seen how many people are out there who don't have a clue? Give it a rest.

People focus on the issues and events that they consider relevant to themselves in life. You can't expect everyone to know everything!

Message edited on: 03/06/2006 17:01

Attached Link: http://www.uspto.gov/

Hi trav, There are well over a million trademarks registered in the US alone, so unfortunately that idea isn't really practical. We do use the attached searchable database when something trips our attention. Unfortunately the database isn't always the most user-friendly. Additionally, all us mods are only human (despite rumours to the contrary LOL) and occasionally we do make mistakes! When this happens, all we can do is rectify it immediately we are informed of it - which as you can see, we did in this case. Khai - I live in Sheffield, hardly an idyll of peace and tranquility! I was, however, brought up in rural Sussex, where helping my aunty feed the chickens, or visiting the dairy with my Grandma and petting the cows, or fishing for minnows in the river with my Grandpa, was the best entertainment a growing girl could get :-)

Also, I seriously doubt that JH is upset that there are great fan models being offered here. It's the fact that it's not being properly moderated across the board in all the various freebies areas. Yep, that's correct. I love to see fan-art models and I think the "Space: 1999" fans love to see models from their favorite show. Like I mentioned earlier, the issue is not about whether we can or can not make items or whether the site will or will not allow us to post the items. This issue is about the inconsistent applying of the rules. Giving mod's grief for not knowing that something is trademarked or copyrighted is uncalled for. Simply point the items out and let them fix it. I certainly don't expect the mods to know about every single thing in existance, but I do expect them to do a basic name search, using all the tools available to them. If the free items are being held for 24 to 48 hours before they are approved, this should be more than enough time for the mods to do a quick Google search for the name. And whenever this issue comes up, it disappoints me to hear the usual excuse of "Well, we didn't know that 'Aqua Teen Hunger Force' or 'Mach 5' or 'Speed Racer' or 'Space: 1999' were copyrighted names". --John