...I'm having a hard time trying to select my first digital camera --- but, I was curious as to: 1. what is the main camera you use ? 2. What camera would you like to own ? 3. who still mainly uses a film camera ?

I guess it will greatly depend on if you are used to using SLR cameras or want a compact digital camera. Currently using a Canon EOS 20D Cant really fault it without being really nit picky. Likely to be a good price now with the new 30D just announced. As it stands at the moment IMO Canon are the front runners with regard to DSLR sensor technology. No hard plans at present to change that as I am after a couple of new lenses. Money no object it would have to be the Canon 5D and the lenses, but I cant have them all at once so its lenses first, not much point in a new cam without the glass I want. Hardly use film now but have a variety of film SLR's inc Canon AE-1, T70 and EOS 3 I miss the full frame camera, but dont miss the stinking chemicals of wet process lol

I started with an old Minolta DImage 100...purchased to do shots for eBay auctions. That camera is still with me most of time though outdated by a long shot. This is a compact digital with enough manual control to make it useful in lots of situations. All shots on my gallery before about April of 2005 came from that cam. Some shots still come from that camera. Now, I use a Nikon D70 and like it very much. Prices are better now. But..even with a "kit" including a lens or two, be prepared to spend more money on other lenes. That is needed on a Digital SLR or any SLR for that matter. I have a macro and a tele that did not come with the camera and the main everyday lens is not a Nikon, but is a Sigma zoom. I am looking at the new D200 digital from Nikon but truthfully cannot afford it even if modest in price compared to some digital SLR cams. And, I don't need it! The D70 does fine. Check out the gallery of Enmos and see what you think..he uses a coolpix for the magnificent macros..not an SLR. I do expect you will get some responses here. All said, you need a capable cam with enough manual control to do it like you want. That might be an SLR and may not be. Get the best you can and work on the images...the camera doesn't select and compose a shot for anyone behind the camera.

I use a D70. I have analog Nikons and when I went shopping for a DSLR I naturally ended up with the D70.

Nikon D70s here. If I had a few thousands to spend I'm sure I'd be plenty happy with the D200. But for now, I'm saving up for some type of telephoto lens. As for film cameras, I have never even owned one.

At the moment I use a Canon 10D with a Canon 28-200 mm lens. I have a 30D on order; it may actually ship someday. :-) Up until August of 2004 I had a Canon G3, which also takes fine photos. The current incarnation is the G6, which should be priced fairly well. As others have said, the camera isn't as important as the photographer. It only does what you tell it to. Get the best you can afford and spend the time and effort to learn how to use it.

1. I use a compact (sigh).....Canon Powershot Pro1. 2. Want (and damn it, i shall have...) the Nikon D200. 3. My grandma? #:oP Good luck finding your first camera. #:o)

Find a cam that does what you want it to do...otherwise, your be dissapointed! I have Canon gear, 1K Mkii, 5D and my wife has the 10D and expensive glass...as Simon pointed out, no good putting low class lens on pro bodies :) Have fun exploring the ranges out there:)

Attached Link: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp

There are alot of choices out there, so its easy to get overwhelmed. If this is your first digicam, you may want to look at some of the compact/prosumer super-zoom cameras! All the brand names have a couple of these cams in their product line! Most of them have the various modes of the more expensive DSLR, but without the need to invest in additional lenses. These cams have a good focus range usually somewhere from 36mm to 432mm (12x zoom). The also have the added plus of either a built-in anti-shake or vibration system. DPreview is a good place to start and compare all he features. Once you narrow down your choice, try to get to a camera or electronics store that allows you to hold them in your hand and try them out! Get a feel for each one and see how they handle.

....thanks for all the information ! -- I regularly visit dppreview, Megapixel ,The Luminous Landscape ,Photography Blog, DC Views etc and keep up with all the reviews -- I also live in a big city with several large camera stores- so I can see the actual models avail -- I own a Pentax SLR film cam and lenses so a Pentax DSLR might seem the answer -- the *istDS2 comes the closest ( nice handling - large lcd - good viewfinder ) - but seems to be let down by j-peg quality and only 6 meg ( at least according to the reviewers) Aso am interested in the Olympus E-Volt 500 along with the 2 kit lenses at a good price -- has nice lcd and design - but SMALL viewfinder and too high noise levels at 400 iso and above ---- The Sony RD-I prosumer has a great lens for any camera type - but awkward body , evf viewfinder, and HUGE raw files ! -- SO ! - each camera seems to have a built in achilles heel - the deal breaker --- now - no matter what camera a salesman shows me - when I ask what THEY own - it's almost always a Canon --- ( I think they definately have the best sensor and processor ) -- The Canon 30D looks to be the best bet -- but then there's all that 'good' & expensive glass to buy for it - $$$$$$ ! ( and lugging around a heavy camera bag ) --- also hoping for a new high quality prosumer camera at the PMA show ( I like those all in one deals and fold out live view lcds ) --- but camera companies seem to be phasing these out because they can't make as much profit selling add ons ) SO ! - there you have it! -- it's just that no camera just reaches out and GRABS me and says I'm the ONE ! -LOL ! ---------- Then there's the new Panasonic DSLR coming out this year which has a lot of appeal ! -------- anyway -- I'll grab one eventually -- it's just not as easy as I thought to select one ---- ( I don't care for fast burst rates - sports photography - etc -- wide angle , good detail & landscape photography appeal to me the most )

Here's what I would ideally want in a DSLR camera: - at least aps sized sensor - at least 8 meg ( for large detailed blow ups ) - one or two good lenses - wide to medium tele - don't have to be too fast. - little barrel distortion at wide ( or use PT lens to correct ) - solid body - feels right in hands - not too heavy - good quality with highest jpeg setting - offers jpeg + raw option - fairly good macro capabilitity - not a dust magnet ( sensor ) - Canon seems better than Nikon - Olympus or prosumer the best - seperate top mounted status lcd -- good - bright- big viewfinder for manual focusing ---- straightforward controls & menus - not cryptic & easy to switch to . - nice smooth manual focus ring . - good 2" + lcd that can be seen well in bright sunlight - good noise levels in higher iso's -- not too damn expensive

Sounds like you have got it all pretty sussed out. Your last post just about describes the 30D (as long as you dont mind delving in the menu for mirror lock up) A3+ prints no problem with the 8.2MP, and excellent Jpeg if you need it, think the 20D and 30D sensor are about the same if not exactly the same, no probs with shooting at 400 ISO even 800 and 1600 are very usable. That said I always shoot as low ISO as I can get away with. My friend had the 1D MK II and now the new n version, and he prints up to A1 with little loss of quality. (not noticeable unless you are viewing up to your nose) I would expect the APS-c censor to be similar in quality, but have never printed above A3+ personally. I have had little problem with sensor dust on either the Canon 10D or 20D. Happy shopping!

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but don't forget imaging software. If you switch the camera to manual it may not have the contrast. saturation and sharpening modes you want. photoshop, photoshop elements and paintshop pro x are popular choices. If you in to taking lots of photos then maybe DxO might be an option to help with the work flow.

...thanks LostPatrol and ironsoul !-----I was hemming and hawwing ( great words ) - on whether to get a 20D after they went on sale recently - and they were just snapped up like hotcakes ! -- just empty spaces on the store shelves now ---so I guess the 30D is now my best possible buy ---- but then comes the lens choice and subsequent trip to the poor house after purchase! -- there's the EF 17-40 F4 L USM ---which frankly looked so damn good attached to an XT that I almost bought it on the spot ---- but the reviews are mixed on whether it's a good deal - and it has such a short range ---- then there's the EF-S 17-85 4-5.6 USM -- much better range - could leave that on the camera most of the time -- but those damn reviewers either love it or hate it ( I don't think I trust them that much ) --- and then there's the kit lens - which I imagine might be nice at f8 in sunlight - but soft otherwise ---- ---- it's good to know that there's not too much dust/sensor problems with the Canon's -- so perhaps I don't need to think Olympus. ....as to software - I just use the original Photoshop Elements - ( although I have an uninstalled copy of Photoshop 6 --- perhaps one could install a raw plug in to it ? ) - and how is the supplied Canon raw software ? ...@ ironpatrol ---- I'm just talking about manual focusing instead of autofocus.

Attached Link: Rawshooter

Not keen on the Canon RAW converter, I dint think that there is a plug in for PS6, but PS elements 3 and 4 will convert the RAW (need to check if that is so with the new 30D) or you could use Pixmatic's Rawshooter 2006 (free) or the premium version currently $89 USD. Bothe versions are good, obviously the premium version is more featured.

The 17-40 f4L is a superb lens, no question about it, bit as you say lacks range, most of my wide landscapes are shot with one.
You could consider the new 24-105 f4L IS USM if you can put up with lack of wide angle.

I have avoided EF-s lenses because I intend to go to a FF body at some stage, so the EF-s will be useless. I know as much as you do about them. The EF-s 17-85 IS seems to be the better one of the two.

My other main lens is the 70-200 f4L, this leaves a gap between 40-70mm, and use a 50mm f1.4 prime to sort of fill the gap, there is also an f1.8 prime which is very good and cheap. The f1.4 is the better of the two though.
If you want to save a bit of cash there is the 28-105 f3.5-f4.5 USM, OK its not an L lens, but very good for the price, I have one and am happy with it, although hope to replace it with the 24-105 f4L IS USM at some point.

OK for me, I do mainly studio and landscape so having f4 lenses is not a problem, if you are doing low light work you may need to go to an f2.8 lens, but they come at a price. For me I can usually compensate by using the 50mm f1.4 if there is enough room to maneuver.

Some of the reviews can be taken with a pinch of salt IMO, a good guide is looking at the MTF charts for selected lenses, bare in mind that you are only using the best part of the optics on a APS-c censor, so edge softness is much less of an issue.

Message edited on: 03/12/2006 16:30

Message edited on: 03/12/2006 16:32

....thanks greatly for the feedback LP ! ---- someone said the 17-40 didn't perform as well on full frame - ( soft on edges - but just one persons opinion ) - but I understand why buying EF lenses have value down the line ( camera bodies can come and go - but a good lens will live on ) -- so - if APS sensors go the way of the dinasaur - at least one will be left with something.... .....maybe the new 30D will ship with Elements 3 or 4 thereby solving the raw converter problem ------- not sure if I want to go the raw route - but will give it a try - seems that it might keep one chained to their computer processing images - I like the part about being outside on walkabout looking for pictures - blood flowing - healthy ! --- but too much time chained to a computer bothers me a bit -- however --- when a really good photo opportunity presents itself - it would be good to go the raw route and wring every bit of quality out of it ... ( listen to me --- I've never even shot a digital camera before! ---but...I think I'm ready ) .....cheers

Yes RAW can be a bit time consuming at first, but is dose offer excellent control. I would say if you are producing images for yourself initially try both Jpeg and RAW and see what you prefer, many people are happy with jpeg, and the 20D (so I can only assume that the 30D will be at least equal) does put out excellent Jpeg files. RAW is always there as an option if you like it.

I use a Canon 10D for most of my images and a series of Quality lenses my favs are the 17-40 L mm And the 100-400 L IS It is a fact that you will need L Glass if you do go the full frame route as a usual sized sensor has less effect on the edges as they are not there so to speak.. The other option I tried was the 16-35mm and that was at the time 3 times the price for the 2.8 faster lens Icould not see it was worth it myself.. I also prepared for an upgrade by spending as much as I could afford on other extras like good Macro gear and flash equipment.. There was a rumour of another Canon with 10.2 megapix 7 fps and priced between the 20D and the 5D Which would be the ideal for me but the 5D is my next choice I think.. Prior to this I owned a Fuji 4700 and a Minolta 7HI which are very capable and can produce superb macro images.. A lot of tip top images can be produced with any of the current digital cameras they just get better all the time.. The cost of Film cameras have dropped and it would be a joy to use a large format or medium format camersa again it is the costs and the messing around that puts me off I could use 3-4 rolls of film a day with good processing even a top Digital SLR will soon pay for itself!!

Attached Link: http://www.fredmiranda.com/

Re the post #13 by Ironsoul and #15 by Lostpatrol: Do check out the imaging software! This is vital. Get into the program, use every available tut on the net and the very good ones on 'rosity. The image in the cam is not what you want as the final copy in most cases. For instance, I used to allow the camera (D70) sharpen my images, even if softly. That was unacceptable for some shots such as a vulture against a gray sky...sharpening halos appeared. So, I shoot with no sharpening and do that as the final stage of an image(working with a copy, for certain). The results are much better in you hands than allowing the camera to dictate what you have to work with in the first place. BW for instance should not be done in camera..all you have is BW from then on! PSP is pretty good and I use it a lot. The learning curve is easy. Photoshop is more difficult on the learning curve but if working with images mostly, it is not that steep. Most of Photoshop goes unused here since I use it mostly for photos with levels, tone, etc. worked out with the final sharpness. A recent post suggested excellent parameters for sharpening(Onslow? forgive..I printed it but not the poster!) This was really valuable to me. As for Rawshooter, try the free version when you shoot raw and be amazed! The freebie does not allow "copy and paste" of corrections or "curves" in corrections but is a good program..super good program to be free! I got the free one then upgraded not long ago to the full 2006 version. If you choose a DSLR, not saying that is the way to go at all....considering the images on this site with those who do not use SLR...but if you do you will very soon want new lenses. I have 4, the one that came with the Nikon, a medium zoom with starting point at about 27mm(wider angle) to about 190mm(digital equivalent with the digital crop), a nice Sigma macro and a nice 300mm(450mm digital equivalent on the D70) telephoto. I still want more...too tempeted to get more lenses even if some overlap too much! I would like faster glass for some lenses..such as the $300 dollar (US) range zoom I always have on the cam but it has proven it worth and does a good job. Confuced enough? You will find as many opinions as there are photographers out there...still, what is presented here on 'rosity is about as FAIR AND BALANCED as I have seen. Go for it and let us know what you come up with. Ok? The link is to a site with fairly good reviews. You can join for free or just read the reviews. To post images means you join for a feee..I just did the free thing. Best wishes in camera and in life in general. TomDart.

@ Danob ---- several years ago I bought a medium format Pentax 645 and 3 lenses --- beautiful machine - but for me it was too heavy to lug around and expensive to run -- then I got a smallish Pentax SLR MZ-5n with two light weight zooms ( 28-200 )- put them in a small shoulder bag and I was ready to go -- walking long distances was a breeze......so I don't want to go much further than that in what I would carry digitally ---- I would guess there are those out there that use a backpack filled to the brim with equipment -- ( & and my hats off to them! ) - but I like the idea of achieving my aims with the least amount of equipment possible - ( still don't know how old Ansel Adams managed it! ) ----but I guess a 30D and two zooms wouldn't be that much of an anchor! -----

I must agree with Tom, have no in cam sharpening, as for black and white etc, if shooting RAW the canon DSLRs will capture RAW + black and white Jpeg if you so wish, that can be good to see on screen. As far as I am aware if Shooting RAW only colour is the only option, Im not 100% sure about that as I do all that sort of thing myself after the fact. I will check it out. With a RAW file you can reprocess it as you wish, so you can convert a black and white and a colour image from the same RAW file. As for sharpening I wrote in another thread the several processes I go through using different sharpening techniques, I will try to find it. Some work better than others depending on the image in hand. Probably enough now to make your head spin lol, so I better leave it there. fredmiranda.com have some good reviews, but some of them are a bit obsessive in their opinions, I never could understand why people buy an f4 lens and then complain that it isnt an f2.8 lens,which in my mind is a bit silly not to mention pointless.

"I would guess there are those out there that use a backpack filled to the brim with equipment" Yeh it is easy to get like that, I have a backpack, but tend to carry a limited amount, I generally know what I will need for a days shooting, so its usually the body and a couple of lenses, unless I am away for a weekend, then I take the lot lol. If anyone is interested in being a caddy drop me a line!

@ Tom Dart ---hey - that's the site ( fredmiranda ) - I went to for user reviews -- but it doesn't seem to matter how much the lens costs or whether it's an L lens or not there's always a lot of people who will slag it and run it down - opinions are just all over the map on any lens - one review gives it a 10 and calls it the sharpest lens ever - the next reviewer gives it a three and says it's the worst lens he's ever bought -- it also makes me feel that some of these people are much more into their equip than photography! --- like people who buy expensive stereos to show off to their friends - but don't actually listen to much music ---hmmmm - perhaps I'm a bit jaded ---- I just want to get a decent camera/lens combo and get back into the creative aspects of photography/art ---

Attached Link: Understanding MTF charts

The MTF chart will tell you more about a lens capability than a review, dont forget with reviews from real users there is an aspect or real user error too, if the user cant or doesnt know how to best focus or where to focus the lens, then the best glass in the world aint going to help. Link to how to read a lens MTF chart. Some of these guys on FM are IMO a bit anoraky

Lostpatrol is correct. Some of the reviews on FM are a bit on the anoraky side(whatever that means!). Still, I find the basic stuff good. I try to read between the lines on any review I read. You will see some photos using a lens for a purpose for which it was intended. Again, best wishes!

Um anoraky! Probably a British expression lol used to describe people that hang about rail stations train spotting and the like. Maybe nerdy, geek etc lol People that obsess over something, in this case lens sharpness etc.

True, so true..proof is in the shot presented as we all know. If the shot is wonderful, who questions the lens or even asks. I sometimes ask..knowing full wel that info will not get me the shot. That is up to me in the first and end production.

Message edited on: 03/12/2006 21:40

....thanks again guys - for the advice & a new word - 'anoraky' ----- and it's true , I guess - if you read between the lines on user reviews -- gleen what the general characteristics of the lens are ---and can locate a chart review ( harder to find ) - then I guess one can come up with a pretty good idea of whether or not it suits ones purposes. -- then of course , I would imagine - there's a variance in the quality of the actual lens you buy which may or may not be an Edsel...er ---- lemon for the younger generation.....but that's life !

I use a snuff box for a camera.:P:P Its Kodak DX 6490 which has only one interesting feature and that is Macro. Other modes are not as good. Given a choice as advised by our friend Enmons I would go for a Nikon 8800 or maybe a Canon 350 DS??....... oh!! I am again drifting.......am I not?? In my opinion a quality of a photograph does matter a lot in some occassion but I truly believe that the true art of photography is behind the eyes. ''Vision'' is more important than ''Sight''... or equally important?? Some artist at RR have really impressed and inspired me... and they do not use highly sophositcated cameras. SNAKEY

I wpuld say "sight" keeps you from cutting of heads in the photo.."vision" might be the choice TO cut off heads when that is the best composition. : )

1. Olympus C8080WZ 2. A nice DSLR with live digital preview...waiting for the next generation or two to arrive. The Oly E-330 and Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 look pretty nice though. 3. I've pretty much stopped using film.

Attached Link: EF Lenses Home

You can view all the Canon lenses MTF charts here. Along with lots of anoraky info. (anoraky isnt a real word btw lol) and is derived from the big green coat called an anorak, supposedly worn by train spotters, enough of this silliness lol Sigma offer the same sort of info in their main site, I assume that Nikon etc do the same

Canon 350d BG-E3 battery grip a bag 'o lenses, and thingummy bobs and dooflips