I'm finding this to be far more of a struggle than I realized. Have a look at this image please? Let me know if I got even close in the light positioning? The light colors.. I can also use advice on, it seemed they should be warmer but I was mostly concerned with positioning. Any other advice would alse be appreciated. I had to resize the image to upload so it may not be as clear as it would otherwise.Originally I rendered it (Poser 5) at 200dpi..re-rendered at 72 and still had to resize Mystmaiden

I uploaded the image in a bigger form to my gallery..looking there may help.

This graphic is what it looks like to me. It looks to me like the light should be slightly behind the young lady. The parts of the tree trunk and mountains (from the photo) that directly face the camera appear to be in shadow. It looks like what we're seeing in the photo is light bounced towards us by surfaces that aren't perpendicular to the camera.

Bobasaur, Thank you for going to the trouble to make the diagram. Truthfully, when I looked at the photo ahead of time I had trouble deciding if the light was simply coming from the front,far left side or..from slightly behind. The trouble with lighting from behind her, the loss of her features. I did try lighting from slightly behind and adding a one soft light to light her features, I was not pleased with the effect. So I guess my choice in this case is..not see her features..or turn her toward the light? You wrote: 'It looks like what we're seeing in the photo is light bounced towards us by surfaces that aren't perpendicular to the camera.' Does this mean that only surfaces that are perpendicular to the camera should have light bouncing off them?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=1183299&Start=1&Sectionid=0&filter_genre_id=0&WhatsN

Saved by the gallery! Look at this picture. The subject's shoulder (which is perpendicular to the camera) and back are dark. However, the side of her facing the light are bright. It creates a dramatic effect. I wouldn't say 'only', because your background image has light from all over. I would make the main light warm but lite the back side with a blueish light (the warm light from the sun on one side, light from the blue sky on the other). I don't think your picture should be as dramatic as the photo on the link, but look at how dark the mountains in the background are and the darker side of the tree. Even better, look at that rock just behind your figure and compare it's light and dark side. Your figure needs to have the same contrast between light and dark that the tree or rock has to really fit into the picture. One of the best tutorials I've found on lighting was here: http://www.itchy-animation.co.uk/light.htm I desparately wish he'd finish it, but what he's got helped me to see light in a whole new way.

I'd say from our left (her right), and behind. It looks like there's a shadow line (perhaps from a cloud above) behind her, so she might be a little less well lit (not in the Southern sense..;)
I'd go for trying to get the strongest light from behind, left (try to match the color of the clouds), possibly a little blue (reflection from the lake, this would be fairly faint) behind, right, maybe just a touch in front to highlight details (not in line with the camera, but off to a side, or above, below, etc., to put a little shadow, just a touch, on her features to give that 3d illusion)I've become convinced that lighting is half the battle (the other is really good textures..but that's just where I'm stuck at the moment..;) good luck

To my absolutely non-artistic eyes, the light angle looks right, but the camera angle is off. The background feels like it wants the camera about 8 feet off the ground and considerably farther from the subject... so that we'd be looking slightly down on the girl, instead of up toward her head.

Keep in mind that all lighting in photography and film is illusory. Usually, the task is not to match the natural (or situational) lighting as it would ACTUALLY be, but to give the appearance that the lighting fits in with the scene.

The illustration shows a strong light coming from behind and to the left. The rock behind her leg actually gives a very strong indication of the direction and angle of the light by the way it is lit and its shadows. But your goal is not to match the natural lighting, but rather to enhance it. Zoom in on the rock and you will more easily see the light and shadow colors. In this case, they are not very saturated (vibrant) so you will want to keep that in mind - use lights with muted hues, not strong ones.

Since the primary light source is behind the figure, you will need some kind of rim light or halo light. This light should be yellowish to match the sunlight on the rock.

This will help orient the figure in the scene, but as you found it is not enough light to actually see the figure. For that you need key lighting (which lights the figure) and fill lighting (which fills in the shadows from the key lighting). Key lights are usually placed near the camera, or slightly off to one side.

The placement, color and strength of these lights is determined by the mood you want to set in your picture. To match the scene, you might go with two key lights, one angled from above and matching the color of the clouds and sky, and one angled from below with a greenish tint to match the reflected light form the grass. These two would have to be relatively low in intensity so that together they add up to the intensity of the single key light. Also, the lower (green) one would be much less intense than the upper one. The fill light should match the color of the shadows in the scene, as indicated by the shadows on your rock. Shadows are the complementary color of the light source, so for your yellowish light, the shadows would be bluish. (The shadows I'm talking about here are the shadows cast by the natural light, not your key lights.) By using a bluish light as a fill, you fill in the shadows on the figure with the appropriate color, which also helps set the figure in the scene.

Keep in mind that it is the contrast between the key and fill lights that the viewer will use to judge the lighting, not the "logical" placement of the lights. Where is the strong key light coming from? Logically, nowhere. But the figure must be lit to be seen, and the viewer accepts this from long exposure to artificially lit images on screen and page. So they will not question the fact that there is light on the front of the figure even though the sun is behind her, as long as the rim lighting is stronger (so it looks like the sun IS behind her), the shadows are in the right place, and the key and fill are balanced to provide enough contrast for the shadows to appear as they would at sunup or sundown.

For a great article on this subject, see Lighting Up The Darkness at DV.com. Requires a free registration, but VERY well worth it! If you are unfamiliar with terms like key, fill and rim lighting, you can also Google "three point lighting" for all kinds of good information on this subject. A basic familiarity with movie and TV lighting is an absolute necessity for effective 3-D scene lighting. Good luck!

• Jimdoria ~@>@

Message edited on: 03/22/2006 16:33

Thank you everyone for the excellent replies! All very helpful. Bobasaur,great example, and I agree, my scene does not require an effect that dramatic, but it does illustrate the position of the light well. I'll have a look at the tutorial. Pakled, good ideas..I definitely agree on the light and textures, maybe someday I'll tackle texture. Light is my current 'project' I think it'll take awhile Ockham I like the idea of looking down at her somewhat rather than up. I think it would be a more flattering view of the model. Jimdoria Thank you for the comprehensive answer, I learned a lot from your post and I appreciate the time and knowledge shared. I was not familiar with the concept of three point lighting. The specifics about the green and blue lights- most helpful, I had not thought of the green light at all. I'll definitely be hitting google and looking over the tutorial. Mystmaiden

I have a hard time looking at a photo and determining light direction, unless it's grossly obvious where one side is light and the other in dark shadow. I just go by what looks good to my eye. When I make something, I'm not going for "exact realism"; all I'm trying to do is make something pretty to my eye that makes me feel good.

Message edited on: 03/22/2006 19:24

Acadia, I've seen your gallery, you have a very good instinct for what looks good.

The tutorials folks have pointed me to in this thread are pretty much opposites sides of the coin. Both views seem to have merit, I'm all for originality.. I am also all for a well lighted scene. What is left is experimentation and I think theres a lot of that in my future. Thanks everyone for the good info! Myst

I redid the lights and reposted the image to my gallery. Let me know if its better at all? I tried to do a bit with PS7 to relieve the feeling that shes floating, but in truth I am worse with PS than poser so it was not too effective.. Mystmaiden

feet are a real problem for me in this method, because you usually have to set up a convincing shadow. You could always tilt the camera to 'hide' her feet, and then you're home free..;)

The other thing you could do is "clone" some grass over her feet using the PS clone tool. If she's walking through tall grass, you'd naturaly expect the grass to obscure her feet and lower legs. The clone tool can clone parts of one image onto another, so you could open up your background image without the figure and use it as the clone brush source, then paint the grass over the identical area of your image with the figure. You might have to do some tricky masking to get it to look right. (Hint: The grass that is standing up against the blue water on the right might help you create the mask you need.) Or you could just paint the grass into place using a very thin multi-point brush. Lots of people paint hair this way. - Jimdoria ~@>@

I'm having real trouble making the camera go where I want for some reason unknown. About when I think it's going to be right..my image disappears. mystmaiden

I find the dials are better for positioning than using the mouse/icon interaction. Write down the numbers (x position, y-rotation etc) before moving an item if you need to so you can reset easily. Or use the camera dotd to temporarily memorize positioning that you can come back to.

Message edited on: 03/24/2006 13:13