I wish to make a suggestion to our brilliant artists and merchants regarding a standard for morph clothing products made for V3 & SP3. I am refering mainly to V3 & SP3 because these characters include morphs such as Barbarian 1 & 2, and Muscular 1 & 2. I am also refering to other products with similar morphs. Almost all our merchants hardly ever include muscular 1 & 2 at all. This is unfair and not right, especially when some products on sale at Rosity for example, could easily include them even if some people choose not to use them. Not all women are Glamorous, not all women are Models, not all women are Buxon, and not all women are Skinny as many artists seem to believe is the mindset of the Poser 6 3D buying public. Some women, believe it or not, are Body Builders and athletes. Yet our artists and our merchants persist in omitting Barbarian 1 & 2, Muscular 1 & 2 from their clothing products when they should as a standard, include them. Obviously some clothing would not be suitable for these morphs but the majority of things are. Having a flexible range of morph options in clothing products is good design, I am thinking of dresses, skirts, tops, underwear, bra's, cloaks, capes, gloves, shoes, boots etc. etc. Trying to fit Stockings & lingerie to characters that have been created using Barbarian 1 & 2 or Muscular 1 & 2 morphs can be a hopeless task as everyone who has tried this knows. Please; could artists and merchants consider setting a standard of including these morphs into their future clothing products. Thus allowing the user a range of options and flexibility that V3 and SP3 were designed to include.

Have you ever thought of getting something like Tailor From Daz or Wardrobe Wizard from PhilC? Even Poser magnets work. If the merchants start putting every morph into the clothes, it's going to cost more one way or another, as in file size or price for the time that they spend doing everything for you.

Merchants are individuals, with individual styles. Forcing rules upon them will not go down well at all. I, however, do think that these days new items should come with at least the full body morphs to match the character. But that's just my opinion. There are a lot of merchants out there just in it for a quick buck, not to make quality products. I put all the main full body morphs into my clothing and don't charge any extra for it. If you use Netherworks magnet sets it's really not that time consuming to add them in. Even if the magnets need slight tweaking, it's still not time consuming enough to warrant a price rise of more than a dollar or two. PXP, you might consider buying Netherworks magnet sets for yourself so you can add in the morphs you need if the merchant hasn't :)

shadownet's stuff usually has lots of morphs for all that. Love esther

I'm going to say "ditto" to everything Xena said. Yeah, everything, lol. The one catch with me, personally, is that I don't generally make clothing for V3, focusing instead on the other figures such as Aiko and Laura and Hiro and Luke (my faves of the moment).

Get the Tailor, it's worth it. Since I've purchased it a couple of years ago, I don't even look at what built in morphs come with clothing items. Another thing worth trying is clothifying clothing items for use in the cloth room. I've had some good results with that, and some not so good ones.

Isn't Morph Manager also capable of transfering morphs to clothing? And why stop at just the Barbarian and Muscular morphs? Let's put in the largest Breast morph (might cut down on the NVIATWAS images if clothing can fit her "expansive" bosom), heck, why not require every merchant who creates clothing for those figures to pull ALL of V3's and SP's morphs into clothing for them? Sure, it might bloat the files, especially for clothing makers like uzilite and As Shanim, and it might take longer to get the clothing out, but at least the only people who can complain are those who don't want all those morphs in the clothing too.

Quote - "why not require every merchant who creates clothing for those figures to pull ALL of V3's and SP's morphs into clothing for them? Sure, it might bloat the files, especially for clothing makers like uzilite and As Shanim, and it might take longer to get the clothing out, but at least the only people who can complain are those who don't want all those morphs in the clothing too."

Adding a single morph, especially FBM, can double the size of the cr2 file, adding all of them can make a file that not every computer can handle. E.g.: our Barracuda outfit for Aiko3 was about 800Kb without any morphs. With 6 morphs it is about 5Mb - almost TEN TIMES bigger. And remember, that it is actually a tiny piece of cloth, with not many vertices to move around. So in the end it will not be that hard to create morphs but it will be almost impossible to actually USE the item. Michal 4blueyes

Actually it's not so much making the morphs as tweaking the joint parameters to accomodate all these morphs. It's hard enough to adjust the JP's for the standard figure, but when you start adjusting them to be able to go from little miss emaciated all the way to Chesty Morgan you are in for a rough session in the joint editor. I have had to take out morphs from garments because try as I may I was unable to accomodate them without destroying the proper fit for the standard shape.

Actually, and I may just be showing my own lack of skill here, but I find it harder to take a detailed object and morph it to fit a new shape than I do creating a new object. By the time some objects are changed to fit the new shape, they loose the detail and ... intended impact, that made them appealing in the first place. mike

When I make morphs I do them right from the beginning of the modeling process. I use Lightwave and morphs are part of the original object file. It's pretty easy to make morphs when you are dealing with a 20 point subpatch object. As I progress in the modeling adding detail the new geometry is transfered to all the morphs automatically, I can also tweak them morph by morphs, going back and forth between the morph layers and the base layer, so you have pretty good control on what happens to the mesh.

Quote - " Quote - "why not require every merchant who creates clothing for those figures to pull ALL of V3's and SP's morphs into clothing for them? Sure, it might bloat the files, especially for clothing makers like uzilite and As Shanim, and it might take longer to get the clothing out, but at least the only people who can complain are those who don't want all those morphs in the clothing too."

Adding a single morph, especially FBM, can double the size of the cr2 file, adding all of them can make a file that not every computer can handle. E.g.: our Barracuda outfit for Aiko3 was about 800Kb without any morphs. With 6 morphs it is about 5Mb - almost TEN TIMES bigger. And remember, that it is actually a tiny piece of cloth, with not many vertices to move around. So in the end it will not be that hard to create morphs but it will be almost impossible to actually USE the item. Michal 4blueyes"

Well, I was being sarcastic (maybe I should have used a smilie?) but it's nice to have a good example of just how big morphs can make things.

Quote - " [cut] Adding a single morph, especially FBM, can double the size of the cr2 file, adding all of them can make a file that not every computer can handle. [cut] So in the end it will not be that hard to create morphs but it will be almost impossible to actually USE the item. Michal 4blueyes"

Well, I was being sarcastic (maybe I should have used a smilie?) but it's nice to have a good example of just how big morphs can make things."

I know you were being sarcastic, modus0 sorry that I took your post to explain my thought though Michal 4blueyes

Dominique, I very interested in your technique, because I really would like to add more morphs. When say you add changes to one are made to all the morphs automatically, can you explain that a little more please? Do you have multiple objects in your modeller that is mover or what? May be a screen cap would help? thanks mike

Lightwave has an exceptionally wonderful way of handling morphs that allows them to essentially be dynamically stored and generated. I've never seen anything like it in any other app, although its likely that Modo has similar capabilites and I wouldn't be surprised if Hexagon 2 comes out with them (cross pollination of programmers). Because of that unique method for handling morph targets, Lightwave is an incredible tool for creating poser stuff. However, it is exceptionally expensive, and I despise the interface.

Expensive is relative, right now a seat is about $800 with a full version of Vue 5 Infinite. That's pretty good considering it's a professionnal app. As far as the interface goes if you like picture icons you won't like LW, it's all text buttons, personnally I prefer those I don't feel like memorizing pictures, besides in LW everything has a keyboard shortcut. Everybody has different tastes when it comes to interfaces. I used to positively hate Kai Krause's interfaces.

Quote - " I know you were being sarcastic, modus0 sorry that I took your post to explain my thought though Michal 4blueyes "

Eh, no problem, just wanted to make sure noone actually thought I was suggesting all Poser clothing creators put all character morphs into their clothing. On a side note, what's the possibility of creating INJ-morphs for clothing? In essence, there'd be a morph delta for Barbarian 1, but it wouldn't show or be usable unless a person injected the Barbarian 1 morph from the clothing (I'm guessing it wouldn't be possible to use the character's morph injections or deltas, they'd have to be specifically created for the clothing to mimic the character's morphs).

ynsaen, at that price I hope your right about Hexagon 2, since I've aready pre-purchsed it! Lightwave is a bit out of my budget for now. But it shoulds like a wonderful tool. 'Sepecially for some one like me since I find the morphs harder to make than the original clothing. mike

perhaps I should dig my v3 morph matching magnets out of the Dud pile ... I can fit a clothing set to any v3 character in about a minute with them. I had them out the other day to make xurges scrollmage set fit a barbar2 v3 ..nice and easy and looks much nicer than stock v3. (for a store promo image .. so I shant post here) INJ for clothing .. ugh .. lets just say NO. I have enough bloody INJ files cluttering up my runtime already thanks Lyrra

Quote - "...Trying to fit Stockings & lingerie to characters that have been created using Barbarian 1 & 2 or Muscular 1 & 2 morphs can be a hopeless task as everyone who has tried this knows. "

As others have mentioned, creating decent morphs is a lot of hard work. Creating decent 'Muscular' morphs is harder work than most other morphs, so I wouldn't expect to find them on a lot of (inexpensive) clothing. Having said that, I included the following morphs on my Stockings for Sp3: Muscular Barbarian Skinny Young ThighWide Adductors Hamstrings RectusFemo VastusLat VastusMed KneeInBulge Gastroc Soleus TibialisAnt FootForShoe FootPetite StretchLegs Cheers, - Keith