I have rarely dipped my toe in the forums here,mainly because of the amount of bad temper demonstrated and displayed and because I found them extremely unwieldy to use. Since the change I'm visiting far more because I actually KNOW how to use this format better.It's what I'm more used to from using other forum based sites.So I say thank you for the change over. :thumbupboth:

Quote - "...Since the change I'm visiting far more because I actually KNOW how to use this format better.It's what I'm more used to from using other forum based sites.So I say thank you for the change over. :thumbupboth:"

I agree..... But there is still a lot of bad temper displayed here because the members here don't seem to want to accept change, and they are trying their best to get the Administration here to turn this PHP board back into the old bondware format. They are not happy with anything. They complained that the bondware format was slow...which it was. Now they complain that the PHP format is slow. I think that this is soooooo much faster than the old bondware. I am just flying around this site. I love it.

Seems all what matters to some here are avatars and cutesey smilies. Nobody wants to take away your new toys, but some of us would like to use the forums for a bit more than meaningless chitchat, so we depend on at least minimum functionality.

Attached Link: PHP information for those that don't fully understand it

Lol. Why I´m not surprised about that arrogant attitude ?

First, not everybody can afford a broadband connection. But who cares about the people on fixed income, anyway, right ?

Second, some people in lesser populated areas just don´t have the possibility to get broadband even if they wanted.

And just for the record, I´m on T-Online, Germanys largest provider, with a highspeed DSL connection.

Speed is OK for me, but nothing really to write home about.

I´m well aware what a PHP board can, point is, I see no PHP board here.

All I see is a custom made barely functioning board that happens to be written in PHP.

And while I do believe that several bugs will be fixed in the future, I also believe that even the finished board will not be of the same quality as one of the already existing PHP-Board packages that are out there.

Bondware wants to create and sell a new PHP-board ?

Great, no problem with it.

But don´t abuse Renderositys members as beta testers and cripple the largest Poser community for weeks or months while doing so.

stahlratte

Quote - "Seems all what matters to some here are avatars and cutesey smilies. Nobody wants to take away your new toys, but some of us would like to use the forums for a bit more than meaningless chitchat, so we depend on at least minimum functionality. "

I can do without the avatars and cr@p but I found the old style forums too difficult to deal with.Too much clicking on links to get to the nitty gritty.This way they are all laid out.

I think the major complaints are because everyone had got used to the bad old system and knew the quickest way around it.Me I couldn't be bothered so I went elsewhere for info.

I also could do without the rudeness that seems to abound here..Maybe a few smileys might help a posting or two not seem quite so antagonistic.With only text and no body language to clue one into someone's state of mind smileys can help...Frankly I think this will be a much better site for the changes in the long run.It's certainly faster than the old system which even my BB was struggling to cope with.Even the searches are faster and I didn't think t would be possible considering the huge catalogue available..Now I'm going to use a smiley to indicate that I'm not unfriendly or aggressive in replying to you.

Swade, I for one like the new boards. I am just complaining about the loss of functions we had in the old board - functions that are in place in OTHER php boards.

it took a lot of 'whines" (as you would term it)  to have the Search put back to what it should have been, (search by name etc).
on the old board we could change screen colours. after "whining" (as you would put it), we can here now.

don't mistake genuine complaints about the new board for 'whining'  - quite a few are for real concerns about the functionality of this place.
and please. loose the attitude... you'll only get it in the neck later.

Loss of functionality

From my perspective, I'm not that bothered about the look of things (though the old site looked much better IMMHO), and I'm not that bothered about speed. What I am very bothered about is functionality! Now I guess I can see why some are asking what all the fuss is about. The thing is that diffrent people want diffrent things from the forums. I use the forums to search for, transmit, and recieve, technical information about Poser and other software. Doing this effectivly, means to me, being able to use "pre" tags to display indented code, being able to post text files as an attachment, and having a reasional search function. These are all instances of functionality that have been lost in the new look forums, and these are only some of the ones that matter most to me, there are other losses. The old search function was not great, but it was adequate, the new one is next to useless for my purposes. Now I can see why a lot of this stuff might not matter to some people, if you want to discuss art, or the relitive merrits of some application, then this sort functionality might not be important to you, and that's fair enough. But please understand that these things are very important to some of us, quite a lot of us judging by the number of posts on the subject. In regards to Poser, Renderosity was the best site for me, now it is the worst. I think it is quite legitimate that I, and others make our feeling known on this matter. If you are happy with the new style site, then be happy, but don't knock us who are not happy, consider that we might have valid reasions, even if those reasions do not apply to you.

All fine and good Les...but constantly, and repeatedly yelling at the tops of your lungs is not helping anything or anyone...several times we have been told 'more changes are coming'..its not going to be instant.

Well, with this editor we can at least put in some code-like stuff. That is what I was missing most, glad it's back - sort of.

And it's easier now to show actual HTML and use in sample code, without having to resort to < and > codes.

Only tabs. I wish this editor had tabs. That would make it really useful.

And the restoration of uploading text files would also be greatly appreciated.

Again, insults won´t help anything or anyone either.

It is not up to you to define what are legitimate complaints and what not.

And why should we be patient ?

You all act as if this mess was unavoidable.

The reason for ALL this problems is that Bondware abuses Renderosity and its members as betatesters for their products.

If they cared for Renderosity as being the biggest Poser forum, they would have just bought A FULLY FUNCTIONAL, WORKING AND TESTED EXISTING PHP-BOARD.
There still might have been a bug here and there, but nothing like what we have now.

Look at CGI-Forum to see how a discussion board CAN look like.

If they let us go through this just so they can save the money for a proper test of their products, then they also have to live with our "whining".
It´s not as if Renderosity wouldn´t make enough money already from selling Poser merchandise.

Gosh, this "My website, right or wrong" jingoism really gets on my nerves.

stahlratte

** Hey stahlratte...where did you get that rat?? Very Kewl!!! :)**

the Stainless Steel Rat...
or
Nickelcromo el Stell (if I remember right ;))

Slippery Jim DiGriz I assume?

I dont see any insults anywhere....

You all act as if this mess was unavoidable.

And you act as if what is happening here is a major catastrophe..its NOT that bad Stahl...

@Khai:

"Als die Bürotür sich plötzlich öffnete, wußte ich, daß das Spiel wieder einmal aus war."

Harry Harrison -Agenten Im Kosmos
(The Stainless Steel Rat)

:-)

Quote - All fine and good Les...but constantly, and repeatedly yelling at the tops of your lungs is not helping anything or anyone...several times we have been told 'more changes are coming'..its not going to be instant.

Now that you mention it, busts out singing

I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, and I want it now!

I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, and I want it now!

:b_grin:

 Sorry but I am afraid the rat is right, contrary to popular belief, this place has long been billed as a "community" well if its a community then its members have the right to gripe when things happen they don't like.

True that...but acting like the world is gonna end if they dont get what they want RIGHT NOW?......pallleeeeze..why not just threaten to hold their breath..:rolleyes:

Quote - True that...but acting like the world is gonna end if they dont get what they want RIGHT NOW?......pallleeeeze..why not just threaten to hold their breath..:rolleyes:

But the thump of their unconscious body hitting the floor doesn't make nearly enough noise! :tt2:

Yes, I've had complaints about how the changeover was done and some of the loss of functionality, but with the exception of the stars and site speed, just about all of mine have been "corrected".

Personally, I think they should have set things up and allowed a limited (say, 1% of the community) number of people to have access to the new forums before going live with them, for say, a couple of weeks, just for the express purpose of ironing out some of the bugs.

I'd even suggest it for the Gallery and Freestuff changeovers. Let some people test out the setup and see how it works before dropping it on us. Might have less problems and complaints.

Just a thought.

Some observations:

1 - Renderosity has used PHP for ages.  The "ez" pages are php pages with a different extension.  So the "PHP forums" marketing spin crap is just smoke.

2 - Swade -- your ignorance about the capabilities of others and your arrogance in assumptions is giving me a huge laugh. Please, continue.

3 - The software for the forums is not finished being written. Yes, that's right -- they have converted the site over to forums that have not been finished yet. While it tells you a huge amount about the consideration that the site Owners have for the people that frequent this place, I can safely say that the people who run it more or less are not quite that inconsiderate, and are likely doing everything that they can to fix things as fast as they can.

4 - Every single complaint thus far has revolved around 2 issues: functionality and presentation. And, actually, the second one is tied into the first one.

The previous software allowed the end user the ability to customize pretty much everything about their experience with the site.  As Renderosity is switcing over to a new software base, that functionality of presentation has changed, and so people are saying "give me the old one back" when what they mean is "give me the ability to change it like I used to back".

Likewise, the previous software allowed us to do a great many different things (search by username, format posts, etc).  There has long been calls and complaints to bring in addditional functions like signatures and bbcodes and avatars.  Rather than shoehorn them into the old code (which seems to be something that the Poser users are pretty pissy about for some strange and unknown reason), they are writing a whole new codebase that starts with those new features.

Now, given that the code is not finished (that is, they haven't even finished adding stuff to it), and that the software is intended for sale once it is finished, they are using Renderosity as a beta testing pit for the software.

And we are the beta testers.

As a result, it is our job to make sure they add everything we want them to add.  And to do that, we have to be vocal about it, and be vocal in groups, as that gives them a measure of just how important the feature is for them to work on implementing it.

In short -- no one is whining.

They are responding to suddenly finding themselves the unwilling participants of a beta test in the most appropriate way possible:  they are making the flaws, bugs, and quirks of a bad piece of software known tot he designers of that software, who, in turn, are making it better as fast as they possibly can.

Sooo

 A - don't stop telling them what they screwed up., Do it more often and louder. IF eer there was a time they needed to listen, this is it, and I suspect they will with the competition they refuse to acknowledge floating around them like sharks circling for the kill.

 B - Give them time to fix it.  This isn't like the open source boards where you can grab additional open source code and plug it in and poof, it works.  They cannot use any open source code at all.  Even for reference (using it for reference makes it a derivative and still subject to the licensing).  So they have to write it all from scratch, using pretty much only the manuals or software which they have to pay for themselves. That's gonna take a while.

5 - Just wait until they start beta testing the new gallery software :D

Quote - 5 - Just wait until they start beta testing the new gallery software :D

 

Oh  dear..you sure know how to cheer people up, huh? LOL

I always try to look at the bright side, ya know :D

Quote - 1 - Renderosity has used PHP for ages. The "ez" pages are php pages with a different extension. So the "PHP forums" marketing spin crap is just smoke.

...

3 - The software for the forums is not finished being written. Yes, that's right -- they have converted the site over to forums that have not been finished yet. While it tells you a huge amount about the consideration that the site Owners have for the people that frequent this place, I can safely say that the people who run it more or less are not quite that inconsiderate, and are likely doing everything that they can to fix things as fast as they can.

Renderosity has not been using PHP. "EZ" pages are pages written in a custom language similar in style to HTML tags in that and , etc tags are contained within brackets, but are parsed on the server side. EZ was a custom language developed by Bondware before the days of Renderosity, but PHP has quickly surpassed its capabilities, so we are moving to that platform.

The forums have been deemed finished, just so you know. We are no longer in testing.

FYI: Don't talk about things you don't know about. If you wanted to know what EZ was, you should have asked a developer such as myself.

Nicholas

"The forums have been deemed finished, just so you know. We are no longer in testing"

Hi Nicholas,You know I'm usually not one to complain (Said the Rosity COM for January)

But is there a way to stop the multiple e-bots from a single thread?

Tom

Quote -

Renderosity has not been using PHP. "EZ" pages are pages written in a custom language similar in style to HTML tags in that and , etc tags are contained within brackets, but are parsed on the server side. EZ was a custom language developed by Bondware before the days of Renderosity, but PHP has quickly surpassed its capabilities, so we are moving to that platform.

The forums have been deemed finished, just so you know. We are no longer in testing.

FYI: Don't talk about things you don't know about. If you wanted to know what EZ was, you should have asked a developer such as myself.

Nicholas

I sit corrected. Apparently in a post made several years ago by Tim, he misspoke, and many of the functions which use the ez extension storngly resemble php2 do so simply out of coincidence.

I apologize.

No longer in testing, and finished. So noted, filed, and archived for later use.

...

Uhm, I don't think the forums are finished. There's still quite some functionality missing.

What about automatically marking threads that have been viewed as read? Performance issues or not, a forum that does not have this basic functionality cannot be taken seriously.

What about sorting options for threads? Yes, we can sort threads by last post or by starting date, but we cannot set our preferences for sorting in our options.

What about advanced search? The basic search facility works, but any serious forum has an advanced search form where the user can specify what to search for, in what fields, and what to exclude.

If I were a potential Bondware customer I would not accept the forum package as it is right now. It is less functional than almost every other forum package out there - and most of those are open source and free.

The forum software is far from finished.

no, no, svdl. it's finished.

You heard it right here.

From the representative of Bondware and renderosity, quotable and printable in external sources, including web hosting services and web design communities across the internet.

Perhaps, as a courtesy, we should help :)

"Finished" as in "we're done tweaking and messing with it," or "finished" as in "dead, deceased, kaput"?

:lol:

All in all though, it's not horrible, at least we have sort by last post. :biggrin:

I believe Nicholas meant finished as in they are here and of course there will be minor tweaks over time and down the road more features added.   They are here and working is what he meant I'm sure. Everything won't be exactly as the old forums and everything won't be like all other forums.  Change always takes getting used to and this is no different. Nothing out of the gate is ever easy but overall I think the programmers have done an excellent job of making fixes quickly and listening to the members.   Over time I think most of you will be more and more pleased with the entire site on the PHP platform.

Stacey, every time I go to read a thread, Mozilla locks up on me while this edit box loads. If I have multiple tabs open,  the lock up time is mulitplied by the number of tabs I'm opening. Hardly what I'd call usable, I'm afraid.

Stefan

Attention Adults:

Forget it.  You’re fighting a losing battle; the children have taken over and it ain’t gonna change.

You can’t really blame them.  Remember when we were kids?  We knew everything and no one could tell us different.   Good thing we weren’t in charge, eh?  Oops!  These kids are in charge! (Check out williamsn’s avatar...what’s he, about 15?)

Forget Poser stuff, this place rocks!  It’s seriously KEWL! It RULZ!!! It’s TOTALLY AWESOME!!!  And that’s all that matters.

Look how kewl I am cuz I can change font colors!  Now, how do I get those really big smilies in my text?

DISCLAIMER:  I have nothing against 15-year-old people.  In fact there are times—although rare —I think I wouldn’t mind being 15 again.  Another fact: my daughter and many of her friends are 15 and I like them all very much.

I ain't 15.  And it's always a bad idea to misunderestimate (sic) people based upon their ages.  At either end of the spectrum.  Or even when they are somewhere in the middle.

Mr. Nicholas can probably hammer out lines of code a lot faster than some others can type out lines of vitriol -- even with as much practice at that particular art as they've gotten over time.

Speaking for myself:  I DEMAND that the admins around here all start doing exactly what I tell them to do -- WHEN and AS I tell them to do it!  AND I MEAN RIGHT NOW!!!!!

If they don't -- then I will make a very nasty post or two at them in this forum!

As everyone knows: the Rendo folks never know what they are doing.  They don't have a clue.  They just stumble about aimlessly.  Lost and forlorn.

Innate, total and utter incompetence -- that's the reason why this site is as BIG as it is -- and why it keeps right on growing wildly past all expectations.............and quite past the predictions of a goodly number of  self-appointed doomsayers.

shrug

Personally, I tend to believe what I see.  Not what I am told.  And nothing succeeds like success.

And success is what I am seeing.  In spite of what I've been told would happen by others -- many times in the dim reaches of the now-forgotten past.

"And success is what I am seeing. "

Well, if consumerism is your only definition of "success", then yes, Rendo is the biggest "success" in Poserdom.

But corporations have a nasty tendency to only care for the bottom line after a while, even "if" they were started with "good intentions".

That´s why in the real world (At least in the part where I am living), corporations are kept in check by the government and by their employees, so that they "not" can do whatever they please just because they "own" the place.

From my POV an artist community where people tried to LEARN about Poser with an added marketplace has now evolved to a marketplace with, well, a forum where people can show off their latest marketplace purchase.

I don´t even bother any more to ask a "serious" Poser question, because most people who could actually answer it have moved on some time ago, anyway.

And putting "corporate identity" and "resale value" over user friendliness doesn´t exactly encourage the "serious" Poser users to spend their time here.
Sure, there are enough newbies eagerly waiting to buy the latest dial spun character and a pose set, putting even more $$$ into Rendos pockets, but do they really make up for what is already lost ?

Like in real live, a "bit" of capitalism isn´t bad. But too much of it will only benefit a certain few, while the majority has to pay the price.

Renderosity Merchants Union, anyone ?

:tt2: :tt2: :tt2: :tt2: 

I for one am down right excstatic that I can now click on a thread and not have to go get a cup of coffee or a change of clothes while I wait on the damn threads to load!! Do none of the complainers remember THOSE days?

:cursing:

SWADE wrote, "Maybe you should get rid of the dialup that you are paying for and get a broadband connection that you can have for just as cheap.

If you are on dialup then it is your own fault you can not function on a PHP board....." 

Hello, my good man. I'm not sure where exactly you live, kind soul, but I live in farm country middle America. About six miles from the nearest small town. Verizon (the only phone company in my area) tells me that I'm too far from the city limits (6 miles) for DSL hook ups. They also told me that they would NOT be making DSL an option due to "Not enough population". Obviously, cable is not an option, either. I suppose, I could move to a city?

So, I just recently made the 'jump' to DIRECWAY Internet broadband satellite dish service. It 'only' cost me $600 bucks to install the hardware, a 15 month committment contract, and an additional $125 bucks for a 'pole' mounted dish in my yard.

Add to that, kind soul, the choices of two plans: (a) Home plan @ $59.99 month. (b) Professional plan @ $69.00 month. Plan A runs at about 650 kbps download speeds. Plan B runs at about 1MB download speeds. Or, so they claim. WINK.

I can't help but be amused and cringe at the same time, at your cavalier remarks above regarding 'dialup' versus broadband. Many in my area are on fixed incomes. Many also have lost jobs as businesses moved south the past year. Many see city folks paying far less monthy charges than what I quoted being asked and choose not to pay it. I'm still debating my choices at this time. WINK.

Being that I'm now on 'broadband', I still am experiening similar problems at this site I did on my mind blowing old dial up speeds of 21.6kbs.  SMILE.

I try using this forum and it 'locks' up or 'freezes' up for a number of seconds. Finally, it allows me to scroll down and read it.

I cannot use the 'back' page button. I have found that I have to hit the  'return to top' button at the bottom of each thread and then I have to hit 'top of forums' page to migrate back to the front forums page. Lather, rinse and repeat. WINK.

I also have to 'scroll across' from left to right to fully view EACH individual post here. Apparently, those in charge, decided not to 'fit' the entire screen in older monitor screens? I was told to reset my monitor to 1024 size to correct this problem by a fellow user. That  I did. However, the print/text became so small these old, 54 year eyes went nuts trying to view it. So, I decided to revert back to my original monitor size settings. Only this 'forum' page, out of all the pages I view online, was the 'one' that would not 'fit' my screen? Go figure? WINK.

I continue to get the dreaded, "Waiting for www.renderosity.com" message .... for extended periods of time. Repeatedly. (Remember, no longer on 'dial up'. And, paying $70.00 a month).  When it finally does send me to whatever area of this site I'm clicking onto, my speeds usually move much faster. However, lately, many days here have resulted in even slow download speeds even on broadband? This occurs frequently on this particular site. I am at a loss to fully explain the 'why' of this as almost all of the other websites I visit rarely, and I mean rarely, ever experience anywhere the degree and frequency of such 'hiccups'? Why just this site?

I ventured into the modern, p.c. world three years ago. After only this brief time in the new aged world, I wonder why this site, of all those I peruse, is given far more to 'hiccups' and 'waits' then all the bunches of other sites? And, I have heard the same 'whines' from members here for my tenure here with no real fix. That, to me, is puzzling and sad at the same time.

We were also told to ''be patient'' and the gallery would be moved. For months. And months. Then, when it's finally moved, if I now understand it correctly, the galleries were 'physically' moved to another 'location'. Not, to another type of format. That is to come at a later date. I realize I graduated third, in a class of two, but in talking to others here, we were all given the 'impression' that the galleries were being moved to a new type/format?

An old farmer's axiom out my way says, "Measure twice, cut once".

I agree with many above who post that the 'people' make up the site. No people, no need for site. I also agree the people need the site. Thus, my complete puzzlement, at times, when there seems to be a disconnect between the two areas? Not in total agreement. Not everyone will ever be all pleased. That's a given. But, to me, it seems that one needs to be heard from both sides. I ran alot of business contract negotiations in my day. I've seen true talking between two sides for the betterment of ALL. I've also experienced one side or the other giving no real heed to the other side, resulting in unhappy people on each spectrum. Doesn't have to be that way, for the great majority, in my humble opinion. The train runs best when the engine and it's caboose are on the same track.

I have also asked, repeatedly, why, when new members join, there isn't a HOW TO page or a WELCOME page for new peoples? A page where one could go to in order to see how the site runs. How to use this wonderful site. I see questions asked over and over again. The same ones. I see moderators having to use their valuable time answering these repeat questions. Instead of using it for other things. I would also think it would make a new person feel more at home in the beginning. It's like when I was in management. One of my supervisors loaded up the press for the new hire for five minutes, repeatedly. He told me he did that because it took the new hire ten minutes to do it, at first, since he was new. I told my supervisor that was true, but that once the new employee was shown HOW to do the job, the supervisor would no longer have to be using his precious five minutes of time. Over and over and over again. End net result, more time for supervisor to supervise and make better decisions and use of his time. More company profits. More benefits available and given to hard working employees.

A fellow member once posted in a reply,  that if someone doesn't like the site as it is, to move to another site. I find that type of commentary not helpful. Love it or leave it? Where have I heard that one before? WINK. I say, LOVE it AND make it BETTER. I also posted that a General once told his troops, "Troops, the General is ALWAYS in charge, but he'd be a complete fool NOT to listen to his troops".

I also agree with many above when they 'whine' about 'functionality', my good man. What good is a corvette able to go 160 mph if it never runs on all 8 cylinders?

Avatars and smilies and such are a nice little frill, I suppose? But, if a site is not 'user friendly' and 'functional' than all the bells and whistles won't make it so, in my humblest opinion.

Or, as us country folk/hicks might be known to say, "If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's most probably a duck". WINK.

PEACE to you and yours, kind soul. Forgive me, I know not what I do. Care to join me? SMILE.

My best, TallPockets.

Look how kewl I am cuz I can change font colors!  Now, how do I get those really big smilies in my text?

If we'd all do that this place would be easier to read.  Why is the default font set to "tiny"?

Quote - Stacey, every time I go to read a thread, Mozilla locks up on me while this edit box loads. If I have multiple tabs open, the lock up time is mulitplied by the number of tabs I'm opening. Hardly what I'd call usable, I'm afraid.

No offense intended, but y'all asked for an edit box. We knew giving it to you would solve some problems and complaints only to create other problems and complaints. These edit boxes are always cumbersome. There's no getting around that. It takes huge amounts of Javascript to make one of these things work, work well, and work reasonably the same across multiple browser platforms. :sad:

And, for the record, I'm 20. And I CAN hammer out lines of code faster than most of the people readings this. :biggrin:

**So, I just recently made the 'jump' to DIRECWAY Internet broadband satellite dish service. It 'only' cost me $600 bucks to install the hardware, a 15 month committment contract, and an additional $125 bucks for a 'pole' mounted dish in my yard. **

Awwww, I feel for ya TP :sad:..I did the same thing.....and aint that a 'special' pole?...needless to say, I was HIGHLY disappointed with the dish service..and flat out told them to come and get the stupid thing..but NOT my pole.....funny, the dish is still sitting at my old house on my mom's property....I oughta sell it and get my $700.00 + back....

"I ain't 15.  And it's always a bad idea to misunderestimate (sic) people based upon their ages.  At either end of the spectrum."

I agree 100%.  Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. What I was trying to get across with my apparently misunderstoond sarcasm was that generally persons of lesser maturity tend to prefer flash with their substance, while those more mature find it annoying. I, and others, believe the added stuff takes away from the main purpose of the board: learning Poser and/or helping others learn. Of course we could be wrong but hey, we were asked our opinion.

"Mr. Nicholas can probably hammer out lines of code a lot faster than some others can type out lines of vitriol -- even with as much practice at that particular art as they've gotten over time."

I’m sure he can.  I used to hammer out lines of code, too.  And the faster I went, the more mistakes and oversights I made.  BTW, I hope you weren’t talking about me with the “vitriol” remark.  I don’t do that.

"Speaking for myself:  I DEMAND that the admins around here all start doing exactly what I tell them to do -- WHEN and AS I tell them to do it!  AND I MEAN RIGHT NOW!!!!!

If they don't -- then I will make a very nasty post or two at them in this forum!"

Again, I hope you’re not talking about me.  I never make demands on what people should do with their own property. It’s theirs, they can do what they want. I don’t make nasty posts, either. At least I don’t think I do.

What bothers me about all this is you’re asked your opinion and you give it.  But if it doesn’t go along with the trend, the kids label you a whiner or, worse, a troll.  There is something to be said for maturity.

Disclaimer: Use of the words ‘maturity’ and ‘kids,’ does not necessarily denote chronological age.

Jumpstartme2 - hello. Misery loves company? Yeah, that pole sure is a beauty. For $125 bucks it should be gold plated. I told the installer I live on a farm and have 4x4 wooden treated posts that would last almost as long as his metal pole. Those guys don't seem to have my sense of humor? Oh well. When I think of that $125.00 I think of what I 'could' have spent with it? Like, maybe five gallons of gasoline? WINK. -- On a more serious note -- What type of 'problems' did you experience on your DIRECWAY service, if I may kindly ask? Thanks, in advance, for your reply, kind soul. PEACE to you and yours. My best, T.P.

What type of 'problems' did you experience on your DIRECWAY service

Welp, let's put it this way...everytime a cloud passed overhead..my service died. LOL

I had dialup to begin with..and naturaly it was slow...so I had a choice of keeping that, or getting Direcway...{out there in the boonies I had no cable options, or even DSL}....when I finally got done paying for everything..I discovered that the dish was slower at times than the dialup I had previously...

So I called them and told them about it...they apparently were having a great time listening to me complain {lots of laughter in the background}..so I ended up telling them to come get the dish and I wanted my money back......

That was almost 3 yrs ago....they never showed up to get the dish, or the rest of the hardware for that matter....~shrugs~ I guess its all mine...considering how much the blasted thing cost me >:( 
I can tell you this..it wouldn't be in their best interest to show up 'now' and try to get it.

I hope you have better luck with yours :)

Jumpstartme2 - Thanks for your reply and all the information. MUCH appreciated. Did you get your money back?  I have a clean line of sight for well over a 1/4 to 1/2 mile across a flat field. I get a signal of 75-79 on most days and some up to 80-84 on clear days. They told me '50' was all I needed? I was also told 'precipatation' could affect my signal. So far, during one recent thunderstorm, I lost the signal for awhile. But, that usually doesn't affect me. I have a metal barn with electric fence coming into my fuse box in the garage and then into my home. I've been 'hit' by lightning 3-4 times each year. Put lightning rods up on the roof of the house, finally to help. So, whenever it 'storms' , I unplug EVERYTHING in my house. LOL. Fool me once ...... WINK. BTW - I ran 21.6kpbs on 'dial up'. I now go through ten pages of gallery pics in an hour or less when it used to take me about five hours before. (I don't EVER want to hear from those here on 'high speed' internet that they 'don't have time to respond' to others' works. Especially, when they manage to post an upload daily. LOL.) Thanks, again, for your help. T.P.

Heya TP :)

Nope, never got a dime back from them....but I have the dish and my nice shiney pole :D

They told me that at '50' I was flyin right along.....pfftt..I was running between 70/74 most times..but gosh was it slow..I was thinking.."I paid 'how much' for this so called 'speed'?"

I have cable right now..and its better than I had with the dish...but sometimes I wonder exactly what speed Im running..as it seems slower these days than it used to..{and they 'say' Im running the highest speed cable internet available that they offer..Im certainly paying the amount..Im just not sure they switched me to the higher speed..>:( }

I wonder what I need to do in order to get T1? LOL Cant be anymore expensive than that dish...:))

Jumpstartme2:

DUMeter (stands for dialup meter) is a tool that can measure your network speed. You could download the 30 day trial version from www.dumeter.com and find out what speed you are actually running at.

And - T1 faster than cable? Then you sure have a lousy cable provider. A fast cable connection should be about twice as fast as T1 (downstream), and five times as slow as T1 (upstream).

Thanks Svdl :)

I went to my cable provider's website, and discovered that I am using what they call 'preferred service'...they state that I will get 4mbps {down} with that service...{and they add that I can download a 100 mb file in 10 mins} The other option is 'premium service' and costs twice as much..and runs 5 mbps.....

Now, I dont know where exactly they got their measurements from..but a 100 mb file would take me substancially {sp?}
 longer than 10 mins to download

So I ran a speed test....turns out what I am paying for, and am 'supposed' to have, and what I actually have are two different matters....Im running around about 3.31 mbps on average...sometimes lower. Nedless to say come Monday morning, they are getting a 'not so nice' telephone call >:(

As for T1..I was thinking that it was faster than cable??...what other options are out there besides cable?

Fiber is the best, of course. but it is very, very unlikely that fiber will be available anytime soon in existing homes, especially in rural areas.

3.3 mbps is not too bad. Cable Internet is all about sharing bandwidth: you share the available bandwidth with all others in your neigbhorhood who have cable Internet. It does not interfere with TV. So the more people that get (and use) cable Internet in your neighborhood, the more it'll slow down. Cable users usually experience variable connection speeds. from very fast (5 Gbit or more) to very slow (5 kBit or less).
A good cable provider will make sure that only a limited amount of customers will have to share a single connection. If they get more customers, they have another connection built.
Most cable providers only care about getting as much money out of their customers as possible, however. After all, a customer service department dedicated to waving off complaints is a lot cheaper than investing several millions in better infrastructure.

DSL has the advantage of having a dedicated line between your home and the DSLAM (DSL  Access Multiplier). And the connection from the DSLAM to the Internet backbone is very fast, capable of handling many simultaneous connections at full speed. The main advantage of DSL is the reliability and the constantness of the connection speed.

In the Netherlands, DSL is slightly more expensive than cable and usually slightly slower. Still it is far more popular, since its more constant and more reliable.

Most cable providers only care about getting as much money out of their customers as possible,

Yep, When I first got cable internet, I was paying $29.95 for preferred service...it was too slow for me, so I upgraded to the higher speed, and started paying $39.95......after awhile I started noticing a slowdown....and then started seeing  tvcommercials from my cable provider about a 'newer, faster speed'...It got me to thinking that maybe they had just dropped me back down in the speed dept, and kept charging me a higher rate....turns out, that is what they did..as now they have 'premium' which costs $33.00 more...and is the same speed at what I was running before the slowdown I noticed, that I was paying 40 bucks for >:( {awhile back they said they had only 2 speeds..} Well, they still have only two speeds..and apparently they dropped my speed, but not my price.....grrrrr...
Yup, they are def. getting a phone call...

~sigh~ I sure wish I could get that fiber optics option....

T1 connections are signifcantly slower than cable when it's at its best, and much more expensive (several hundred a month). The difference is, T1 has a contsant, unchanging speed, and whereas cable will have a fast downstream speed but a slooowww upstream speed, T1 has the same speed upstream and downstream. I have cable internet and, tho I am paying a ton of money for it, I seem to have a very reliable connection and get 4 Mbps consistently. My parents have DSL and it is slower, but definitely more reliable. T1s and Fiber, for now, are really only practical for business applications. My parents' DSL, however, is faster than my T1 connection at work. They average 1.8 Mbps. Just FYI.

Yup, Im averaging about 512 up, and 3.3 down......grrr....I want 'fast' LOL

512 up, 3.3 down, not bad at all. I have 640 up (max) and 6.0 down (max).

Very, very few sites can keep up with a 6 Mbit downstream line. It's more than fast enough for me, especially since I don't download movies and the like.

I would like a higher upstream speed though. My home server is used as a freebie repository, and my upstream traffic greatly exceeds my downstream traffic.

By the way, T1 is 1544 Kbit up and down, guaranteed. And a T1 connection comes with a Service Level Agreement: you are assured of service, and if service breaks down, the provider MUST restore service within a limited time (how limited depends on the terms of the SLA) or pay a hefty fine to the customer. This insurance is why T1 lines are that expensive - and why they are practical for business applications.

Attached Link: http://home.cfl.rr.com/eaa/Bandwidth.htm

Btw, I found a motherload area of speed tests if anyone needs it....LOL

http://home.cfl.rr.com/eaa/Bandwidth.htm

ALL - a very interesting technical discussion. Thanks for the info! I am told I'm downloading at 1MB per second on DIRECWAY satellite dish. They 'promise' about 80%, though. LOL. QUESTION: Why, if I view a picture online at 1MB in file size, and I click to save/download it, does it take 2-4 seconds to actually view/download the picture? IF I'm truly running 1MB speeds/download, why wouldn't it literally take '1' second for '1 MB? LOL.  Just because I have 1 MB 'capacity', do most websites allow or run at similar speeds? I mean, If a website runs a slower speeds, it won't matter what my speeds are if they're higher, correct? I've seen video downloading on my DIRECWAY (cnn news feed streams) that say they're downloading at about 100-130 kbps. Why not at 1MB? Sorry, all. First computer a few years ago. Over 50 and technically challenged. SMILE. Thanks, in advance, for any info/advice. Also, why do satelite 'dishes' like mine run slower compared to 'cable' lines? What is the difference between DSL and DIRECWAY satellite dish? Is DSL PHONE LINE only? My dish is 'coaxialed cable' into my home to a 'modem' and then into the back of my p.c. tower. JUMPSTARTME2 - I WISH I ran YOUR SLOW speeds! LOL.  My best, TallPockets.