Do you belong to a writing group?

Do you set a time limit for each member to go over his or her current writing?

How often does the group meet?

Do you get anything out of the critiques?

Are all or any of the members in your group published?

What happens when just a couple people bring something to share and others just critique?

Do you allow different genres and different levels of writers?

What would your ideal writing group be like?

Do you preview stories/poems ahead of time, before the meeting?

I would like to get your input on the above questions for an article I am writing.

Thanks so much for your help.

Dee-Marie

You know, I used to belong to a writing group (if you can call 3 people a writing group) and I actually miss that sort of interaction.

We used to meet a couple of times a week at our peak and would actually do in-group writing for the others to read over and review. Fun stuff =)

I've been interested in joining a more formal writer's group, assuming I could actually get over the intimidation factor!

Sorry I took so long to respond, hope it's not too late for your article.

Do you belong to a writing group?
Like David, I used to belong to a writer's group. I remember it fondly. It was fairly small, 6 to 8 people if I recall, and quite diverse. We had newspaper reporters, poets, short story writers and aspiring novelists.

Do you set a time limit for each member to go over his or her current writing?
We did not have a set time limit, most people brought fairly short pieces – poems or short stories mostly. I suppose there was a bit of a limit in that someone writing a novel would just bring one chapter at a time.

How often does the group meet?
This is perhaps my most dim memory. I think we started out weekly, but dropped back to bi-weekly, perhaps even monthly. Our first meeting was at the local library, but then we moved to member's homes.

Do you get anything out of the critiques?
I always get something out of critiques, even shallow ones. Critiquing is the hardest part of a writer's group, and not from the writer's point of view – it's hard for the person doing the critique. Particularly if the works are critiqued cold. I highly recommend pre-reading before the meetings. That was not practical back in my day, but now with e-mail and the Internet, it would be much easier.

Are all or any of the members in your group published?
I don't know how many of us were published at the time but at least one of us, Dan Hurley, has gone in to achieve some degree of fame. http://www.hci-online.com/dhurley. And, of course, Dwight Bitikofer . Dwight was the group's founder, and editor/chief reporter of the fledgling Webster Groves Times. Now he's the Publisher of the small but well established Webster-Kirkwood Times. http://www.timesnewspapers.com/ Dwight is a very nice guy and was the glue that held the group together.

What happens when just a couple people bring something to share and others just critique?
Can't really answer this, since it was so long ago. I think everyone always brought something and everyone contributed to the critiques.

Do you allow different genres and different levels of writers?
Yes.

What would your ideal writing group be like?
It would be much like my original group, diverse and small (6-8 people max). I still like the idea of a face-to-face group, but if I were to set up a local writer's group I would also set up a private web site where members would post material before the physical meeting so that everyone had a chance to read ahead of time.

Do you preview stories/poems ahead of time, before the meeting?
No, we did not. That would be one thing I would do different. Cold critiquing is very hard to do.

I no longer belong to a writer's group, though I toy with the idea sometimes. I do have a circle of readers; friends and family, that read, edit, and critique for me. The hazard there is that friends and family sometimes give soft critiques, but I think I get pretty honest opinions from some of my friends. It is important to make it very clear that you want honest opinions, tell them you have a thick skin (and mean it), and really listen to what they say. And don't become a burden.

~jon

Thanks so much Jon,

Your answers are exactly what I was looking for. I truly appreciate that you took the time out of your busy schedule to respond to my request.

Thank you also David.

Have a great week,

Dee-Marie

Hello Deemarie,

YES!  Writing critique groups are the way to learn the craft.

For many years I belonged to two weekly groups: one for general fiction, and the other a Romance writers group.  No snickers, please.

The general fiction group met every Monday night 6-9 p.m. all through the year.  Well, except Christmas and New Years.  And this was during the reign of Monday Night Football.

Steve, a large man in his late thirties, served as moderator. He chose who would start the first critique of the evening – that was his sole appointed task.  After the next piece had been read, the next in the circle would start critique, and so on around the table.

The submissions were 2000 words or less, just one copy for the one who read the piece COLD in a clear voice.  Where that reader stumbled, you had best flag it for revision.  Reading your own work was frowned on.  A female voice is often the best (sharper) for choosing the reader

Although the fiction group numbered 15 regulars and semi-regulars, usually 6 to 8 would show of a given Monday.  The pieces were read in the order of arrival, except for those who hadn't submitted for a while were worked in.

One precept ruled: make your critique for improvement of the piece, or pass your turn.  Personal attacks were shown the door.

We were all adults and accepted rough language, rough situations, but drew the line at prurient, gratuitous sex and/or perversions.  Some of the members would be incensed about certain attitudes.  We each were there to learn.

During the critique of your work, you kept quiet, unless asked a direct question – this saved time.  [Not everyone would get read of an evening.]

That critique group was loosely affiliated with the city-wide writers group which met monthly, reported members publication news, up-coming events, and often a guest speaker.

The city-wide group was affiliated with the state-wide organization – which held the BIG writing contest early in the year, and the annual convention in early May.  Agents, editors and publishers would attend the convention: interviews could be scheduled, etc.

The Romance writing group was, except for me, a ladies club.  One published writer (Harlequin published at least two of her works every year) anchored the group.  In the three years I met with them on Wednesday nights, two of the younger writers sold Romances – and then each got pregnant.  When they switched to Monday nights, I left.

Sexist or whatever, but the ladies liked to talk.  We would gather at 8 p.m. and maybe the first offering would get read around 9:30.  The group was rarely more than six, and the critique part was a free-for-all.  However, constructive criticism only.  Those ladies were sharp, and always thought in terms of the story, rather than dwell on grammar.

One of my 40-page wonders hammered in that forge won second place in Historical Romance at the statewide competition.  For those of you who aren't familiar with the term, a 40-page wonder is submit the first two chapters and a three page synopsis (double spaced at about 250 words per page).  And then later you wonder how in blazes to finish it after the creative spark fizzled.

The romance group tolerated me as a loose tie to reality.  When I called attention to an impossibility, they would say, "Oh Dick!  It's a Ro-mance!"  Yes, I was the-long-suffering male, but they did open my eyes to plotting.  They were the ones who got me to read Robert McKee' seminal book "Story: Substance, Structure, Style, and the Principles of Screenwriting."  A must read for those who write genre fiction.

Of online writing groups, I found www.toasted-cheese.com excellent.  If nothing else, look at their front page categories, and dig through the archived articles in "Absolutely Blank."  You must join to post and make critiques.

Rambled.  Sorry.

Dick

Outstanding input Dick,

Thanks so much. I like the idea that you were in a romance writing group. It is silly to think that only woman can write romance.

I have belonged to the same writing group for close to ten years, with the same three writers at its core. Part of our group's problem is not setting a specific time and day to meet. We meet when schedules allow us to. Which really sucks.

Now that my book is nearly polished, I have the urge to find another group, with a set meeting time. Also, fresh readers would be nice. However, I am torn, as I feel it would be "cheating" on my current group.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions.

Dee-Marie

Hi again, Deemarie,

Yes, the flexible meeting time hurts.  I found I could work ( all right, play/noodle/dink-with-words) toward the meeting times.

And with a small group, interpersonal dynamics become ingrained - responses become automatic.  I rarely saw my other group members away from meetings, and then only by chance:  an architect, accountant, two doctors, commercial artist, farmer, gay convicted felon (who made me ill at ease on both counts - honest time), house wife, computer systems guru, junior college English instructor (she grew into her job while a group member), and one eternal university student.  I was the earth scientist/oilman/bum.

Larger groups help, but truly, more than eight in a meeting is not so good.  The COLD read aspect keeps the members focused and leaves little time for them to embroider their pet themes into your work.

On critiques, check   http://members.aol.com/asterling/amypage.htm  
Amy Sterling Casi'sl take on the matter - scroll down about 4/5 of the way and you'll see it under "Writers Resources."

Dick

Do you belong to a writing group?

Used to. Both an online one (Compuserve Forum) and a face-to-face one, the best called “Trinity Writers” – since I've been a member of many groups - each time I moved I joined a local one.

 
(I’ll use the face-to-face one for most of the answers.)

 
Do you set a time limit for each member to go over his or her current writing?

Each person got to read (or have read out loud by someone else – preferable) no more than (I think) 15 minutes of their story/piece.  Followed by about 15 – 20 mins for critique. With around 5 to 6 people present each time this just about worked in the 2 1/2 hour meeting time.  Especially as not everyone had something every time.

 
How often did the group meet?

Every fortnight.

 
Did you get anything out of the critiques?

Oh yeah, lots!

I personally found it most helpful to have someone else read it aloud, I discovered things about it I’d never have found out otherwise – that’s apart from the actual comments from members after the reading.

 
Are all or any of the members in your group published?

We all have had stuff published in a way, some won competitions, some just had stuff published in our own magazine distributed to the local area, some published in women’s magazines, reader’s digest, this n’ that.

 
What happens when just a couple people bring something to share and others just critique?

Never happened, we had a homework scheme – at each meeting the next person in turn would a) run the meeting and b) set a homework for the following meeting.  Er, I mean if it was your turn to run the meeting next time then you’d set the homework the meeting before – so people had time to do something – or bring their own magnum opus – Homework always got dealt with before long running work in progress – so there was always something new around.  Having a different person run each meeting also meant that it helped some people come out of their shells and no one person became too bossy, and each meeting had a different flavour.

Do you allow different genres and different levels of writers?

Oh yeah, with so few members if you didn't you'd soon have had no members at all.  Like there were 3 of us into scifi/fantasy, one of those horror sci-fi,  2 or 3 into short stories for women’s mags, almost all of us wrote poetry at times. One had a vast fantasy novel full of sword fights.  Two were into crime.  A couple did romance. One wrote a family history... some were over 70 some under 20, most around 30 or 40-ish, men and women. In total that group had around 12 – 14 members but usually a core group of 8 attended regularly.  Some wrote in more than 1 category (including me).

What would your ideal writing group be like?

I'd say around 8 to 10 people, who are serious about what they do – whatever that is, and who can – or are prepared to – try anything – even if they actually prefer writing for motor-cycle magazines.  Who are prepared to critique seriously with the author's desired aims in mind, like think sci-fi if that's what you're critiquing, or think romance, crime, short story, novel etc etc if that's what's being written.  Critique with both positive points as well as negative ones, if highlighting problems suggest solutions, and finally and most importantly: critique the writing not the writer. 

Do you preview stories/poems ahead of time, before the meeting?

This was not done in Trinity Writers but was in the online group – if you were critiquing online you had about a week to a fortnight to reply with your crit.  In Trinity you critiqued on the day just after the reading, but some people would take a copy (if the writer distributed copies) and bring a more in-depth critique along to the next meeting.  This was encouraged by everyone since it meant that you got more valuable feedback.

I would like to get your input on the above questions for an article I am writing.

Thanks so much for your help.

Dee-Marie

Probably too late for this, but it was an interesting question.

Fran

Thanks so much Fran for your input. Your timing is perfect, and I hope that others will continue to post to this thread, as I am still gathering information for the article.

I especially liked the giving out homework and having different writers conduct the mettings.

Thanks again for taking the time to post your answers.

Dee-Marie

I'm glad it was in time as well as being an interesting question.