Can anyone provide a list of the major differences? I've been trying to sort it out from reading the product pages at E-on, but I'm not sure if I'm missing anything. So far, I'm assuming that:

Infinite will have EcoSystems II, and PS won't
Infinite has some animation features (graph editor, wind generators) that PS lacks
Infinite has a "purge memory" function and PS doesn't (?)

And... is that it?

I don't know, but I'm wondering if e-on's new products will inflate the value of 3D art -- sort of like the effects of clip-art in the 2D world, but more...overt?  When one can simply paint and rearrange 3D objects on a "canvas," like virtual Legos, then what becomes of the 3D artists who model their own trees and other objects to be rendered?

I like the idea of "labs" in which all the tools to make volumetric clouds and plants are in the application.  However, with e-on's drive to produce instant gratification, drag-n-drop imagery could water down the value to the extent that most 3D art will be viewed as clip-art art, with little value beyond “easy to make lovely scenes.”

Of course, Hollywood loves such things!

One clarification about ecosystems.

As I understand, Vue 6 Esprit will be able to use and render ecosystem materials.
You will need the new Ecosystem plugin as part of Pro Studio to create ecosystems (or get Vue Infinite).

Louis - how people value art is a very finicky thing.

In my mind, what matters is the end result - the picture. This is what counts as art for me. Not how easy it was to create this tree or that house. The rest is technical skills or crafstmanship (which also counts as part of the art but not as much as how the final result impacts you - the viewer).

As an illustrator, I appreciate not having to spend hours tweaking dozens of parameters to create a tree. If I want a tree, I place a tree in the scene and Vue does most of the random work for me. I can decide this tree is not good and generate another one. It allows me to focus on the content, the story in the picture and not how to make a particular item.

Same with photography - it took years to accept photography as Art. After all, you are not actually painting anything in that image. You don't have to be an accomplished painter to take a picture of a sky or trees, but you still need to be an artist to take the right picture, even if you did not create the objects you are using in that picture.

I see the vocation of Vue, Carrara and other approachable 3D tools as 'democratizing' 3D images, make them easier to create so that people can go back at creating artistic imagery and not just displays of skills.

Attached Link: http://www.allposters.com/-sp/-Posters_i377546_.htm

Look at this photography by Ansel Adams.

Is it Art because of the name of the photographer ?
Would it still be Art if you took the same picture instead of him ?
Is it any less Art because nobody spent hours hand painting the tree ?

I asked a lot of questions before buying v5i....from what I gathered:

Vue 6 pro studio is Vue d'esprit 6 with all the plugins, mover, botanica, etc.  So take a look at the info for d'esprit 6. then look at the plugins.   The studio description is in the d'esprit description:

The expansion modules are deigned for advanced artists who seek enhanced control and functionality in Vue 6 Esprit.

Each of the five modules adds new features and tools in a specific area of the program: Plants (Botanica™ module), lighting (LightTune™ module), asset management (DeepAccess™ module), network rendering (HyperVue™ module) and EcoSystems (EcoSystem™ module).

This modular approach lets you conveniently enhance Vue 6 Esprit only in those areas where you need additional power.

Vue6i has all of the plugins, plus the ecosystems II with ecopainting, wind, a better renderer (supposedly), solid growth 4, ventilators (basically structured wind), layers,  

vue 6i has everything but the extreme plugin (for intergrating with other software, not poser...that's mover), studio is d'esprit with all the plugins.   Technically you can buy d'esprit, then get the plugins as you need them making it studio.

But if the Botanica module is the same as the Vue5i one (which I gather it is), it's not worth having. It could hardly be more lame.

Having a suspicious mind, I suspect it was deliberately hobbled, and deliberately not upgraded, to try and force people to buy more plants from C3D.

The Botanica module gives you the same plants editor you get in Vue Infinite. Most of the plants available at C3D were made using this editor.

There is no deliberate attempt to force people to buy anything.

And there's a new version of for vue 6...I'm interested to see the differences.

Quote - The Botanica module gives you the same plants editor you get in Vue Infinite. Most of the plants available at C3D were made using this editor.

Come on ... it only allows you to change the leaves and the bentness of an existing species. You can't create new species. You can't even change the proportions of a tree or number of branches. It looks pathetic compared even to the Bryce 5 tree editor.

Quote - And there's a new version of for vue 6...I'm interested to see the differences.

According to what agiel said earlier, it's the same.

I never said it wasn't limited :)

What I said is that they are not making it limited to force people to buy plants from C3D for the simple reason that the plants from C3D have been mades with the same plant editor.

Quote - "And there's a new version of for vue 6...I'm interested to see the differences."

According to what agiel said earlier, it's the same.

..according to e-on's site botanica uses solid growth 3, while vue six will have solid growth 4....add that with eco systems you get whole forests of silghtly different plants, that's quite a bit different than bryce's tree editor.  Now you could create a tree in bryce's tree editor and replicate it but the same effect would crash my computer. 

I just followed a tutorial for this pic.  but for different trees, randomized and populated and a less than a minute render.  http://fnproductions.net

So I'll restate myself I'm interested in finding out the differences between solidgrowth 3 and 4 which is the core of the bontanica modules and contained in vue 5i and vue6i respectivly.  Is the flicker issue the only change?

Ventilator support is undoubtedly a part of the SG4 technology (the localized wind effects), as wind and breeze were both global effects in V5I.

Quote - I never said it wasn't limited :)

What I said is that they are not making it limited to force people to buy plants from C3D for the simple reason that the plants from C3D have been mades with the same plant editor.

I do not understand this at all. In the tiny selection of trees that comes with Vue there is just one conifer - a little fir tree. If you wanted, let's say, a pine tree, there is no way you could turn that fir tree into a pine. What you are saying is that all the plants at C3D are just minor variations on those supplied with Vue (because making minor variations is all you can do in that editor). If that is true, it's very damning of the quality of what is available at C3D. I had assumed they were made with something like Xfrog and converted to .veg format.

As far as I know, there is no way to convert an xfrog tree to a .veg file.

If the trees available at C3D are in .veg format, there are only two possibilities:

• either e-on created new 'source' trees and made them available (only e-on can do that for now)

• or the trees were made by vue users, in which case, they are variations from existing source trees using the tree editor provided with Vue.

In the latter case, they're not worth buying. I can make a slightly bendier maple as well as anyone.

So the question is, why should it be that only e-on can make a new source tree, given that without a source you can't make a new species and are limited to fir, plum, cherry, maple and palm trees. Oh, and winter pear and acacia. And an anonymous dead tree. Given the huge variety in nature, being stuck with these few shapes is absurd.

I've been using the Incredibly Lush Underbrush set from Cornucopia3d for a couple of weeks.  I'd been dubious about buying modified plants because of my limited success using the Botanica Module.  I have to same I'm extremely happy with them.  I just wish I could make it do that myself.

Presumbly this is achieved by just adding new leaf bitmaps. Undergrowth is rather easier to change than trees, where shape is so important in the species differentiation .

When I bought Vue 5i I expected that Botanica would at least have the functionality of the Bryce 5 tree editor. It has been a big disappointment.

Phantast, I suggest you create your own SG plants and let us know about your results. You'll soon see it's a lot more difficult that what you are saying. C3D plants are either created by e-on, with their proprietary technology, or modified species, like all the veggies made availablre by the lovely Frenchkiss. Call them variations if you want, but they are true new species, and high quality ones.

As for Xfrog plants turned to .veg, there's no way this can be done. Xfrog plants are the best around, but the poly count is a lot higher than .veg

Not just difficult, but as far as I can see impossible. Suppose I want a pine tree. Can't do it. There's nothing in the available selection of starting points that looks anything like a pine tree, and I can't turn a maple tree into a pine tree with the limited modifications permitted by the editor. So the plants you are referring to may be high quality as far as they go, but they are necessarily stuck with a few basic shapes.

Creating great looking SG plants is beyond me too most of the time, but some are successful, and I even managed to create a banana tree from the standard Vue coconut tree! And it's not too bad either!

Remember that the plant editor allows you to change shapes and sizes in many ways. Creating leaves is very tricky though.

Having jus read this discussion line, and actually being a designer and having a degree in horticulture, im very interested the creation of new plant species, and the lan editor in vue is very usefull to some extent, but as oyu say you need a base to start off with.
i would really like to see e-on ship vue with a basic pine tree ( there are some good ones on corucopia which are infantly adaptable in the editor but i dont see how they could not include one of the planets most prolific vegitation typed)
a fruit bearing tree
and a plant which has both foliage and flowers on stems.
this would then give the user a great deal more flexibility.
I also think  that its discracefull that the walnut, sonnitera and other basic species were not adapted for the newer versions of view, and if they were we then had to go buy them all over again which cost a fortune. this was a little oppertunistic of e-on and c3d and i think it is something they should really rectify to keep their fan base loyal.
They coulod bring out a packakage of basic plant types whic cover say, broad leafed, conical and palm trees, lillys, orchids,broad leafed flowering herbacious, shrubs and grasses and a fruit bearing tree and herbacious plant.
This should keep every one happy!!
Some how i doubt that it will happen though as C3d is making a lot of wonga from its plant sales......

Ya know here's a free plant creator I've been using for awhile.  Haven't used the plants in vue yet but they've worked in Poser and Bryce.

http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/order.htm

When you consider the new content supplied with each iteration of Poser, it really is insulting that an expensive flagship product like Vue 5i ships with the same feeble collection of plants as Vue 4e had.

Quote - Having jus read this discussion line, and actually being a designer and having a degree in horticulture, im very interested the creation of new plant species, and the lan editor in vue is very usefull to some extent, but as oyu say you need a base to start off with.
i would really like to see e-on ship vue with a basic pine tree ( there are some good ones on corucopia which are infantly adaptable in the editor but i dont see how they could not include one of the planets most prolific vegitation typed)
a fruit bearing tree
and a plant which has both foliage and flowers on stems.
this would then give the user a great deal more flexibility.
I also think  that its discracefull that the walnut, sonnitera and other basic species were not adapted for the newer versions of view, and if they were we then had to go buy them all over again which cost a fortune. this was a little oppertunistic of e-on and c3d and i think it is something they should really rectify to keep their fan base loyal.
They coulod bring out a packakage of basic plant types whic cover say, broad leafed, conical and palm trees, lillys, orchids,broad leafed flowering herbacious, shrubs and grasses and a fruit bearing tree and herbacious plant.
This should keep every one happy!!
Some how i doubt that it will happen though as C3d is making a lot of wonga from its plant sales......

????? I suggest you take a close look at the installation CD's of your newer versions of Vue. You will find a folder that contains all those plant species with versions specific to the version you purchased. All you have to do is install them, use the reg key that you bought them with initially, and provide the reg code for the version of Vue you bought them for. The versions for sale at C3D are for the people who don't have them already (or who want to -not- have to type in those bloody long codes)

Phantast, the edited plants collection didn't exist with Vue4, it has been added to the Vue5 collections, as long as the alien plants. The plants for sale at C3D are more " plant editor friendly", but it's true you need to buy them first, and they are not cheap. Just consider you are buying a species, and not only a 3d object, and it's a little less painful to click the checkout button!

Yes, well, I would like to have a few more real-world species instead of alien plants I'll never use. Instead of THREE maples and THREE cherries, where is a pine, a beech, a cedar ... ?