Yes, Jumpstartme2, I agree with you... and think that many non-rendersensualosity clients will be attracted when see new stuff with severals topics. :)

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Mmm.  Pie.

I'm so hungry I could eat 3.141592654 of them right now.

I actually laughed at that. :-S

goes back to making boys

Thank god I'm not the only one, LMAO

Nerd Chicks Unite!

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Mmm.  Pie.

I'm so hungry I could eat 3.141592654 of them right now.

I actually laughed at that. :-S

goes back to making boys

feels dumb

Quote - Now I have a question.....why does that have to be the only thing that sells....does everyone have to float in the same boat, or ride on the same wagon?

What happened to unique stuff? What happened to trying new things, and pushing for new things to sell?...I myself think if it were created more {different articles of clothing, not just religious based} that it could give the present skimpy clothing a run for its money..

because many merchants with a lot of experience have already tried, and sales are pitiful.

the two more unique, non-mainstream products i created were my lowest selling items by a huge margin. their sales were pitiful. so i learned my lesson - while i still make what i like, i also make what i know will appeal to the largest market.

by all means - convince a significant portion of the renderosity community to switch to rendering religious scenes, and ill start making religious themed products. but currently, if i spent weeks making some religious themed items, no matter the quality, id get a couple of dozen sales tops. that wont pay my bills. 2-3 people complaining in a thread doesnt constitute a 'market'. get a thread together with a list of people willing to buy it and start creating a market. i guarantee that if you had a significant amount of people clamouring for something then merchants would make it. failing that, perhaps one of you should pick up a modeling app like hexagon and start making some items.

if you cant grasp the concept that the largest target market gets catered to by the most merchants - not just in poser but in every market, society, etc - then nothing i say here will make you understand. i have bills to pay and mouths to feed, therefore i work for profit  - as 'horrible' as some of you have already stated that is (im a profiteer, sellout, etc). im not selling here based on principle, or to make a point, im selling here to make a living.

Quote - I'll continue to use my software for promos for Church

Last remark..... When reading your post again I noticed this remark. Out of curiosity I've checked you gallery and products and read the statement again and I'm simply dumbfounded by now. Somehow the 2 don't match up at all and now do understand your comments much better. You're aggresive stand on this issue makes sense now. Should have done this eralier then I could have saved myself lot's of typing in replying.

Well I'm doing some soul searching at the moment to see what actually keeps me here.

Quote - the two more unique, non-mainstream products i created were my lowest selling items by a huge margin. their sales were pitiful. so i learned my lesson - while i still make what i like, i also make what i know will appeal to the largest market. ...if i spent weeks making some religious themed items, no matter the quality, id get a couple of dozen sales tops. that wont pay my bills.

I've often wondered how much i would have to offer a merchant to get them to make something less mainstream. ya know. like I'd give you $X to make an outfit like this (send pictures) for Matt. How much would that X have to be?

I dont think its so much complaining as it is frustration...sure, alot of people here prefer the things that are offered, but then there are those who dont...see no reason there wouldnt be a market for those people.

I get the concept BH, thats what sells, and in order to make it, pay the bills, feed the kids, you do what you have to do....I get that....I do that everyday of my life, and have been for many, many years..{yes, I feel older than dust ~hehe~}

But Im also very stubborn...and I am in the process of learning to model, and am nowhere near good enough yet to post any of my models up for sale...but what I intend to do is make unique items.. and everyday items that are not out there..that nobody thinks will sell, because there is no great outcry for it...and I will put just as much effort into making those things as you or anyone here puts into making the fantastic items you make.

It will be hard...dont I know it...but anything worth pursuing, is worth pursuing with an ironclad resolve to make it work yes?

Im not against any of the fantasy creations you guys come up with...I just think there should be more out there to choose from..

Well the thing is, as I asked earlier, "What are you willing to pay" for those "unique items"? I've done a number of commision works, it's how I learned to model for Poser in the first place. While I'm not saying I'm looking for new work, I'm willing to bet that if someone posted to the wish list for a specific item and offered a REASONABLE commission someone would pick it up.

Reasonable commission is the key. For a one shot item the psice has to be enough to be attractive. A single sale of 5 -10 dollars wonlt make it! I've worked for $50 to $500 fo custom orders, depending on the specifics of the item and the contract, and yes money talks, the higher the price the more and faster "attention" an item will get! 

Then again if an item is INTERESTING enough, or has postential wider appeal, I cut deals where the requester can get the item for free.

PLEASE NOTE: I'm NOT soliciting work in any form in this thread!! In fact at this time i would tend to turn it down! I'm simply attempting to point out a way people can get the non-"mainstream"  Poser items they want made.

mike

Quote - > Quote - I'll continue to use my software for promos for Church

Last remark..... When reading your post again I noticed this remark. Out of curiosity I've checked you gallery and products and read the statement again and I'm simply dumbfounded by now. Somehow the 2 don't match up at all and now do understand your comments much better. You're aggresive stand on this issue makes sense now. Should have done this eralier then I could have saved myself lot's of typing in replying.

Well I'm doing some soul searching at the moment to see what actually keeps me here.

You could possibly be ruder, but I think it would be difficult.  Do you want her to get a note from her pastor? ROFL!!

Trav, but are you good as a modeler? Do you have some work online to evaluate your talent?

Mikerender3D

You miss my point. As I said, I'm not looking to take on any work at this time.

What I'm saying is, if you want something, put it out there! Be specific in what you want and hang a reasonable offer of pay for it. If nothing else that should get you into negotiation with an artist. From there you can evaluate the price and talents of any artist that responds. However, don't offer a price like you would see for a single item in the marketplace, or be shocked if the price you are quoted is MUCH higher than that! Those prices are based on quantity sales.

This would be my suggestion on how to achieve your stated goal, finding items that are not available in the market place!

Complaining about the general lack of items in the market place that suit your particular taste is a negative and many people tend to assume you are using this forum as a politcal soapbox to state your aggenda, generating debate, but doing little to help you find the items you are looking for. Approaching the situation a serious, potential client, will work better if you are serious about having the type of product you say you are looking for, produced.

mike

"Complaining about the general lack of items in the market place that suit your particular taste is a negative and many people tend to assume you are using this forum as a politcal soapbox to state your aggenda, generating debate," Trav, obviously, I don't agree with you in this point. This means that you don't understand the sense of my posts because you and "many people" think that I have a double intention and that is not true.

Quote - > Quote - I'll continue to use my software for promos for Church

Last remark..... When reading your post again I noticed this remark. Out of curiosity I've checked you gallery and products and read the statement again and I'm simply dumbfounded by now. Somehow the 2 don't match up at all and now do understand your comments much better. You're aggresive stand on this issue makes sense now. Should have done this eralier then I could have saved myself lot's of typing in replying.

Well I'm doing some soul searching at the moment to see what actually keeps me here.

Heh, well see, I still don't know what your point is THIS time, but, here's a clue.  I don't post my renders for my church here because dum da da dum I'm under contract and THEY own my work.  Plus, to be quite honest, it's not very artistic, and it's not the best work I've ever done.  Because they don't want artistic, and they don't want dramatic.  They want "Family Kneeling to Pray" or "Father and Son Praying" or "Mother and Daughter Praying".  So, no, you haven't seen my stuff for them.  Maybe, once I've proven to them that I can, and want to, do a better job, they'll let me use my own creative intuitiveness.  Until then, one does what the client asks.

So, ya have any more of those gems to throw my way, or are you just trying your best to be rude?

The idea that one should go to DAZ to get "non-porn" gave me a giggle. I've been following the Millenium Madness sale all week, and amused by the sleazy "Peeking Beaver, Showing Pussy" shots of Aiko 3. DAZ does the worst kind of porn, the hypocritical kind.

I'm pretty sympathetic with Aikema (excuse mangling your name; I miss being able to see the thread while typing) in principle though I probably am on a whole other planet in some ways, being a Lawrence pagan rather than a Christian. What bothers me about the Poser "world" is that it is populated with a tiresome majority of people who reduce humankind to triviality: boobs and salacious smiles, mighty thews and bloodstains, crowds of people who think with their crotches. Who gives a fuck? The world I escape to is a bit less infantile than that, but they would be bored, bored bored. And yes, this matters, because the glamorization of the trivial encourages it, and our children are becoming what we fantasize: groins and guns.

But yes too, there's no fighting the tidal wave of shit that is, after all, 95% of everything. And not a lot of point is standing at the brothel desk demanding that you want "a nice girl." Welcome to PoserLand. The next plane leaves at 10.

M

Mikerender3D

I mis-spoke myself with that last paragraph. It wasn;t directed at you personally, but as a general statement. Yours isn't the first post that's complained about the lack of non-risque' clothing for Poser. However NONE of those posting ever seems to want to put thier money out front. I'm simply trying to point out that; THAT would be the best way to insure you get the type of merchandise you are looking for. It's a fact that sexier clothing and sexier characters ALWAYS outsell more mondane merchandise, usually by a very LARGE percentage so more vendors tend to create sexy clothing and characters. Until there is enough money on the table to make vendors see a profit in other items I doubt this will change.

mike

Quote - ...and our children are becoming what we fantasize: groins and guns.M

oooh.. im actually modeling a gun at this very moment. snicker  i guess i epitomize all thats sick and depraved about the poser community then.

i actually modeled a 'jesus saves' neon sign for someone a short while ago... surely that qualifies as a religious item. it was even free! thats like.. at least a few bonus karma points right there.
am i still going to hell?

help yourselves, and dont say i never make religious items :)

Blackhearted, I wannna wager that your "everyday street wear" will sell the least of tho9se three.

Yeah "everybody" is claiming they want "normal, everyday stuff" - yet when push comes to shove, they dont BUY it..

So... well, I'm one of the people who actually BUY and USE Everyday clothes more than fantasy garments, but I do feel like I'm a minority L

Of course, most of the people in my renders have NO clothes, so.. heh... but those aren't the renders I post at THIS site, coz this is a nice, family-oriented place with no smutty pictures of any kind. Right?

And yeah there's a lot of skimpy fantasy gear in the Market Place. And it's there because it is what sells. That's just life. Normal market routines.

Og så forresten med hensyn til sprog, så har jeg altid hørt at dansk skulle være det sprog der var sværest at lære! Ha!

(And regarding languages, I've always been told that danish was the toughtest language to learn.)

hell, I can't even explain basic danish grammar.. I can USE it just fine, but that's only because I've grown up speaking it. I'm not really sure there ARE rules (joking btw of course there must be some rules.. somewhere...)

I can understand some spanish due to its relationship to latin, but I can't exactely speak it.

Ooh thanks Blackhearted. This will come in handy for something. I'm sure! Actually I have just an idea for it as part of a render I'm setting up atm GG

Attached Link: http://www.ling.helsinki.fi/~fkarlsso/genkau2.html

just wanna mention that spanish and french (romance languages derived from arabic and latin, as trekkie pointed out) are easier to learn than english IMVHO.

Well, Miss Nancy.. IMO there's a LOT of latin in english. And I find it an extremely easy language to learn (and my kids agree, my little kid at 10 is fairly good at english at this point...So much that she has started watching movies without the subtitles)

Of course a big part of why most people think english is easy is that we're subjected to it every day on TV. Movies ect aren't dubbed here (except for kids cartoons) so we hear a lot of english all the time. Actually, one of the polotical parties here in Denmark has recently suggested that english became an official language here. Since we're only 5.5 million (or is it billion... 5,500,000) people in Denmark we all NEED to be able to speak some other language than danish. Even if we claim to be able to understand (and be understood by) swedish and norwegian people, the truth is different. Some understand swedish and norwegian (I'm fairly good at them due to my work) but most do not. And if you thought english was a sloppy spoken language.. well you should hear danish. It takes "sloppy" to a whole new level. LOL

English is rapidly becoming the Lingua Franca on the internet. Although there are large chunks of the 'net in other languages, we all use english for common conversation. Like it or not (and don't be mistaken, I LIKE it)

...

12rounds.. I've always had a sneaking suspicion that finns doesn't really understand what they're saying to each other.. they're just great at pretending ;o) (and I have quite a few finnish friends plus I'm addicted to quite a few finnish (heavy)rock bands, so... I can say a few phrases in finnish but overall I must agree with you.. it's a completely weird language :oD (but weird of course primarily because it has a different origin than other scandinavian languages. The germanic languages are larger than the three languages in the finnish group (dunno the english designation for those, it's of course finnish, estonian and hungarian))

It's easier to say "cheers" in finnish than hungarian though LOL

egeszsegedre?

yea egészségedre is  the hungarian version. And I know how to pronounce it (thanks to a hungarian online friend who sent me a .wav with it LOL) but Kippis is still easier to say G

And of course, skål is beating all other languages when it comes to ease of saying LOL (it's pronounded rather like scoul)

"They want "Family Kneeling to Pray" or "Father and Son Praying" or "Mother and Daughter Praying". Morrigan Shadow, please, talk with your owner of this stuff and tell him that Im interested in buy it for non-commercial use, if this is possible. Thanks.

Morrigan Shadow, first want to see it :) to kneel a figure is not hard ;)

Thanks for a vote for Finnish. I hear Basque beats the Finns hollow though, and there is a handful of American Indian languages that would be in contention if they got a chance.

BH, as a guy who tried to market jailbait a few years ago by advertising her as jailbait, you are welcome to whatever shoe fits.

M

Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=barbie4364

Barbie4364 has poses for V3, M3, The Girl, and SP3 for praying.  I use these, then tweak to whatever's necessary.  the V3/M3 ones work well on the Mil Kids, too.  ;)

Quote - Actually, one of the polotical parties here in Denmark has recently suggested that english became an official language here.

I certainly understand the need for it. Prior to the World Wars, German was the foreign language of choice here and pretty much everyone learned German in school. Now it's English, but who knows what the lingua franca of tomorrow will be. Chinese, perhaps? > Quote - languages in the finnish group (dunno the english designation for those, it's of course finnish, estonian and hungarian))

Finno-Ugric language group. Estonian is believed to be next evolutionary step of Finnish (having more effective and easier to grasp structure to it). There are actually dozens of other languages belonging to this group and those are used by now-smallish tribes at Ural and central Russia. Soviet Union denied teaching those languages during the communist regime and so most of them are now spoken by only a handful of people and are effectively killed to extinction. ==== @mickmca I agree that there are probably several harder to learn languages, including Basque and Navajo etc. English is, however, not overly difficult to learn IMO. Hence it's rapidly becoming the dominant language in many walks of life.

12rounds --
What's tough about English is that English speakers are pitiless toward people who "make errors," and any second language speaker will almost inevitably make subtle pronunciation changes based on their native language's sounds. So if you are using English as a second language, rather than be impressed that you have accomplished something he couldn't do to avoid jail time, the average American will sneer at you for mispronouncing "enough" or having hard 'th's.'  It's a variation of the incredible British habit of deciding how other people's words should be pronounced ("KeyAunty, anyone? It was Danty's favorite.").

M

mickma, I see the point there, but otoh I think people at least around here are incredibly lenient and accepting of other people's grammatical mistakes.

Yes, sometimes the language barrier causes misunderstandings, and sometimes even hostility, but usually, once it has been established that it IS the language barrier that caused the misunderstanding, people are ready to forgive and forget.

As for pronounciation, that's one of the good things about writing the stuff, isn't it? Although I most likely make a lot of mistakes (not even counting typos) I can' at least pretend to be able to speak it. I've spoken to people with whom I've communicated in writing without any problems, but when I spoke to them it became obvious that we could barely understand each other. English looks a lot different from how it sounds (just like most languages).

Quote - English looks a lot different from how it sounds (just like most languages).

Unlike Portuguese!
Lucky for me - an Englishman in Brazil.
With the exception of a couple of variants for the letter "x", you say things exactly like you see 'em.

Rô

Hoe about some tatar language? :D “skem!” - “Wkems!” this is just saying "how are you"! insert evil grin kitty5

Quote - BH, as a guy who tried to market jailbait a few years ago by advertising her as jailbait, you are welcome to whatever shoe fits.
M

perhaps on whatever prudish planet youre living 19 is jailbait, but it certainly isnt around here. not even close. sorry.

psst: i didnt 'try' anything -- nia's marketing page has been unchanged for about three years. i daresay that more people bought her than would have bought an 'ultimate nativity scene for poser', regardless of how well it was made. im sorry that im not willing to subject myself and rio to living on dogfood and crackers in a 1-room basement apartment in order to make the niche items you demand, and have five people buy them. i guess that makes me a horrible person.

btw, youd think that someone that spends so much time bitching in the forums about hypocrisy,  nudity and 'jailbait' at least wouldnt be hypocritical enough to have nude renders of the daz preteen in their gallery.

Gabe, I remember the initial advertising for Nia, and her brief stint on the shelves at RDNA, and "19" was added because marketing her as a FCM teen was more than anyone could handle. Rewrite history all you like. Americans are always eager to forgive success.

And identifying the naked child in Gerome's At the Slave Market as "pornographic" child nudity is using the letter of the law as a weapon. But it worked. Thanks to your complaint, the image has been taken down and I have a tick on my record for an image I posted more than four years ago.

I guess that'll teach me.

I won't quibble with anyone about the difference between being anti-sex and being anti-sexual exploitation; around here it's a waste of time. And on the hypocrisy front, you will never convince me that you are so stupid you could not see that my composite was using nudity, not exploiting it. I'll have the picture up at my site in a few minutes, in case anyone wants to see what the fuss is about.

For anyone who's interested, here is the link to the essay, which includes a reproduction of Gerome's original painting. I'm  linking it separately from my previous comment because there's a possibility that my site will be declared "pornographic" since it includes "porn" like Caravaggio and Gerome.

Rights of the Virtual

Oh, and Gabe, I've removed the reference to you from the Gladiator Doilies essay. Wouldn't want to provide free advertising or create embarrassing associations.

Quote - "And identifying the naked child in Gerome's At the Slave Market as "pornographic" child nudity is using the letter of the law as a weapon. But it worked. Thanks to your complaint, the image has been taken down and I have a tick on my record for an image I posted more than four years ago.
I guess that'll teach me. "

i didnt link to the image here, much less file a complaint or report it to anyone.... in stark contrast to your repeated forum complaints about my products being 'allowed' in the marketplace. its pretty hypocritical of you to be ranting about underage nudity when you have a nude preteen on an auction block in your gallery.

not being the calmest person around here, i am using as much restraint as i can muster in replying to your trolls. you are basically calling me a pedophile -- if someone said that to my face theyd be drinking their food through a straw for the next few weeks.
in light of the fact that over the last 5 years i have been one of the biggest opponents of the 'faerie' crowd who would slap a set of wings on a suggestively posed naked child and call it a faerie, its even more infuriating.

Quote - Oh, and Gabe, I've removed the reference to you from the Gladiator Doilies essay. Wouldn't want to provide free advertising or create embarrassing associations.

thanks!  its not as if it were in a good light anyways - your contempt of poser and fantasy/nudity is apparent in everything you write. interestingly enough your gallery has(had) an awful lot of nudity in it for someone who holds it in such disdain.

I love the creative factmaking that passes for cross-reference around here. As far as I know, I've only complained, occasionally, about Nia. Not a word abou the rest of your store, not even when the cheap shot opportunities arose during the discussion of anorexics. And I don't recall ever "calling you a pedophile," or even suggesting that an interest in Nia is an interest in child sex. I don't consider post-pubescent humans "children," though they are off limits for good cultural and legal reasons.

I have not been "ranting about underage nudity" anywhere that I recall. Perhaps you have my comments mixed up with your "rantings" about faeries? I do recall objecting often to hypocritical attempts to present children as objects of sexual regard and to pander to the "Teen sluts want YOU" crowd. That's not about nudity, it's about sexual exploitation.

As for piddling around in my gallery looking for a cheap shot of one's own: My "Gallery" has been semi-retired for more than two years, but by an odd coincidence, three people visited all thirteen pictures yesterday. One of them was David H, I think, since he was kind enough to leave a comment on one picture. It's hard to imagine him feeling moved to report the insidious child nakedness in the Gerome pastiche, and I assume person # 3 was the moderator who nailed me a few hours ago and warned me to sin no more. The unidentified person would logically be the complaintant.

And speaking of complaints, does your privileged status at R'osity include the right to make threats of physical violence against unimportant people who annoy you? I'm 62 and have a minor heart problem, so you might want to bring a friend.

Mick

my priveleged status at renderosity unfortunately doesnt include an ignore button.

again, i didnt report your image. thats not my style, in fact it would have served my argument much better had it stayed in your gallery. perhaps the mod that pulled it can explain who it was.

as for threats of physical violence: i made none against you or anyone here. the anonymity of the internet gives people the opportunity to make some pretty nasty statements and allegations against people, apparently. so while you sit at home in your comp chair and smugly insinuate that im some sortof pedo, i doubt youd say it to my face.

you win - i pulled all three products. now leave me the #%@$ alone with your self-righteous babble. ill post the links to the 'held' pages with promo text/images intact so people can see it wasnt pulled for any reason other than that im just sick of this shit.

Ok, since this has turned into a bit of an attack fest betwixt the two of you, I'm locking this thread.  Also, to quell your fear, mickma, no, Blackhearted did not lodge the complaint.  We can't say who it was, but I can say who it was not.

MorriganShadow
Poser Mod