[quote]
wawadave,

This is a notification that AgentSmith has engaged the nudity flag for your image titled "Walk the Rock?". This is just a reminder that, as per the site Terms of Service, when you upload an image you are required to select either "None", "Nudity", "Violence" or "Both" as an indicator for the content of that image.

This action has been noted in your member record. This is a reminder, not an official warning. However, should you continually and intentionally not flag images as containing nudity or violence when appropriate, it could result in an official warning on your member record.
[/qoute]

this picture was rendered in bryce
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1302734

Not one singal milimetter or pixel of body was left uncovered.
no genitals ie:nipples even applied to the scene.

yet you warn me of nudity?

so i will now have to go and flag every image i have done here as nude because you can still see the picture therefor its nude.

i,m sure this is a bannning ofence not understanding how completely covered nutered imagages are sill nude???

i have since put nudity advisory on all my pictures becaise if this picture could be considered nude then every picture ever made in bryce vue daz poser any camera on any subject could allso be considered nude. so by warning above all must be clasased nude. next i suposed all will be violent classed then i shall just delete the bunch and leave.

If a figure is not wearing any (apprent) clothing at all, then yes most of the time, I would consider a figure nude. This applies to even a figure that has no nipples, no pubic hair and just an abstract texture applied to them. It also applies to figures, (with no clothing), that have just stone, or metal textures applied to them.

Now...this isn't truly an opinion, as much as it is a rule of thumb that I have developed over the years, mostly because of recieving e-mails from angry parent members, who have had nudity blocked in their profile, and are literally browsing the galleries with their kid sitting in their lap. And, to their dismay....an unclothed DAZ figure pops up, with a rock/metal/abstract texture on it.

Well...the artist sees it as not nudity, because the figure is say, a statue.

But, the parent has to start answering their kids' questions about why the "mommy' isn't wearing any clothes. (while they write AgentSmith a pissed off e-mail, lol.)

And, yes I agree nobody should just wildly browse Renderosity's galleries with their kids around, imho.

Yet, I also can agree if it looks like a figure, and it has no apparent real-world clothing, then yes I would see where parents could view that as nudity.

So, over the years I have leaned towards "better safe than sorry".

My apologies for the automated crude-ish e-mail ya got. Your image was extremely borderline, and really I would not consider it nudity myself, but I admit, I was playing it safe, and gave it the nudity flag.

thats ok i flaged every item nudity now so your tottaly safe.

i looked over the picture before uploading it and it had been posted on daz art studio and the mormons did not ban it.  so asumed it passed there scruples  it was safe. it passed mine witch were as ridged as theres for the same reasons but not one any longer. the skin you thought you were seeing is the surface of mars........

 i will flag all future u/ls nudity in future weather they are or not.

nudity used as flag in this post do to naked words......

and the mormons did not ban it

-Rofl....ah, that made my day.  ;oD

-Sorry about all the "stuffy-ness". Thanks for tolerating.

And bt checking the nudity box you will get more viewings!!!  ;)

First of all, I like the work you've done(wawadave), and second, don't get discouraged by the way any site handles the content. They like to error on the side of caution, to protect the site and everyone who visits. This site wants you to upload your pics, and I wouldn't take anything like this personaly. I've been to alot of sites that do this kinda thing, and worse, some good, some bad. Also take what AG said too. Hope to see more of your pics soon.

Quote - First of all, I like the work you've done(wawadave), and second, don't get discouraged by the way any site handles the content. They like to error on the side of caution, to protect the site and everyone who visits. This site wants you to upload your pics, and I wouldn't take anything like this personaly. I've been to alot of sites that do this kinda thing, and worse, some good, some bad. Also take what AG said too. Hope to see more of your pics soon.

well it has discouraged . but may u/l more some time.

thx!

Quote - If a figure is not wearing any (apprent) clothing at all, then yes most of the time, I would consider a figure nude. This applies to even a figure that has no nipples, no pubic hair and just an abstract texture applied to them. It also applies to figures, (with no clothing), that have just stone, or metal textures applied to them.

And here is one reason i no longer post images on this site. God help us all in the real world if they start flagging statues with nudity signs.

Sorry Agent Smith, but if i was to do an image that had statues in it i don't believe it should be flagged with the nudity flag.

Why does it bother you guys that a naked looking image should have a nudity tag? Like there's something wrong with nudity...

Here's one of the most famous pieces of sculpture, Muchelangelo's David.
(caution, nude sculpture image linked)
http://www.anlamak.com/gormek/michelangelo---Davud.htm
Guess what, he's buck nekkid, and would get a nudity tag.

Nudity does not equate BAD!
I don't quite get why you're upset that you are reminded to put a nude tag on something that looks more nude then not?

Its not so much the nudity tags, or nudity being bad, as it is the category switch. No artist wants there art to be switched in category, when it was not intended by the artist(hope that typed right). This is why I sympathize with the artist, and yet still see the Websites reason as well. It would have made me mad too, if I didn't intend it for that "category".  :mellow:

Every site and person can see it differently, and I learned this one way or another. Just don't like to see any hard feelings, so we all can see/enjoy others artistic abilities.  

I just IM'd my 16yr old page. She said the image made her Hot! Please keep posting.

I think it's funny that the person that forced much of this internet paranoia on us just resigned from congress and checked into rehab.

I tend to think images with the nudity flag tend to get more viewings. As for my humble opinion, maybe a less formal sounding message reminding an artist to put the flag on would've been cool. The reasoning is in a forum like this, people tend to let down formal walls, speak their mind a bit, and it all has the air of informalness. For me, the way I think of everyone here in RD, and especially within the Bryce community here, is as friends. Agentsmith, Zhann, and others. So, I could imagine getting a formal sounding message might feel a bit cold.

As for me and nude flags, when I started learning to put figures into Bryce, I didn't know how to add the clothes and export them from Poser. The first nudity I did was a gold statue, like what you see in a trophy (golden winged angel type) and I wrestled with "do i click nudity or not?" thoughts. To me nude = no clothes, and since this is all virtual art we're doing, lots of arguments could be made that it is or isn't nude. However, I'm not big on philosophy so I avoid the stress and just error on the side of caution.

However, if I do ever violate an RD policy, it would be by accident (sometimes I do upload at night and I'm all sleepy). A friendly message like "oops! please don't forget the nude flag next time. If ya got questions, click here (faq link)" would be enough to get me to be extra careful next time.

:-)   Just contributing thoughts!

thank you for your thoughts. i will just mark all nude because the pixels are not clothed......

Heheh!  Art for the naked eye!

Look i'm not saying we shouldn't have the nudity flag enforced on some images. I don't agree with it being enforced on an image that could have statues in though. imo, nudity should be for any image that shows the female breasts(nipples) or any genitals including pubic hair. If one uses a texture like marble or concret on a figure then i believe the nudity flag should not be placed on the image.

this is just my opinion on this matter.

Would you say the figure in this image is nude and any image it was used in would need the nudity flag placed on it. Dont be frightened to give your own honest opinion on this matter.

I have to admit that I would tend to consider that both wawadave and CrazyDawg need the nudity flag in order to conform with rend TOS.

That is not to say I always agree with rends TOS.

We lost a budding new artist when of her images was removed from the gallery and she received a warning message from the PTB. The offending images contained a naked baby fairy in a flower. Naked inasmuch as it wasn't wearing anything, nudity no, because the figure was partially concealed, so nothing "naughty" showed. The result was that my daughter-out-law has removed her entire gallery and has lost interest in producing images.

Quote - I have to admit that I would tend to consider that both wawadave and CrazyDawg need the nudity flag in order to conform with rend TOS.

I don't understand what you mean by this, saying i need the nudity flag in order to conform with rendo TOS. Now none of my images have been done with any nudity in them. If i have mis-understood what you were trying to say i am sorry but i'm a little confused with your reply.

I posted the image in my last post to get an idea if that needs the nudity flag or not as i am thinking of doing something with that figure in it. Like i say to many, if you don't ask the question you'll never know the answer, i'm only looking to find out if that would be classed as nudity or not....

OK...so I wasn't very clear in what I said.

What I actually meant was that the figure you put in your post would need a nudity tag IMHO, to please the PTB at Rend.

Quote -
Would you say the figure in this image is nude and any image it was used in would need the nudity flag placed on it. Dont be frightened to give your own honest opinion on this matter.

It would be nice if it was labeled nude, because it is suggestive enough where if I were sitting in the office (instead of the privacy of my own home), I would like some warning about the image, and would perhaps think twice about opening it up where a "mixed company" would see it.

Here's few of many examples where "nudity" tag is helpful:

1. I like to keep an eye on renderings when I take a break at the office, but I don't particlularly want to deal with having to explain "this is not exactly nude, because you can't see his d***" at the office if someone more conservative happens to look over my shoulder and finds it offensive.

So, at the office, I turn the nudity warning on the thumbnails ON, and I don't have to worry about getting in troube. Even with there, there are plenty suggestive ones where I don't wanna spend too much time on certain pages. I tend not to look at Poser Gallery while at the office at all, just for that reason. Trust me, your hurt feelings about borderline nudity are not worth getting in trouble for or even fired over for possible sexual harrasement for me. And guess what, I do modelling and rendering at work, so keeping an eye on certain artworks and techniques is a part of my job.

1. My mom is registered on Rendo too, because she likes to look at my stuff sometimes. She doesn't post or have a gallery of her own. Being an old lady (and there's a number of older people here as well) she doesn't really care to see something this suggestive.

2. I may have a 10-year old at home with an access to the computer, and may not want her to have access to this kind of imagery, even if it's only suggestive frontal nudity rather then genitals in plain sight, which means, I may not want to participate at home, so she doesn't accidentally end up on the website.

3. Would you walk out in the street like this? Perhaps with just a fig leaf hanging over your ding-dong? If you wouldn't, then you're talking about pretty darn close to nudity in a public place. You do have to remember this is a public place with mixed company.  If you were taking a girl out on a date, would you show up dressed like this at her parents house insisting you're not nude, but that you're going to an art gallery walk?

Quote - > Quote - I have to admit that I would tend to consider that both wawadave and CrazyDawg need the nudity flag in order to conform with rend TOS.

I don't understand what you mean by this, saying i need the nudity flag in order to conform with rendo TOS. Now none of my images have been done with any nudity in them. If i have mis-understood what you were trying to say i am sorry but i'm a little confused with your reply.

I posted the image in my last post to get an idea if that needs the nudity flag or not as i am thinking of doing something with that figure in it. Like i say to many, if you don't ask the question you'll never know the answer, i'm only looking to find out if that would be classed as nudity or not....

this was after you wrote this.....

Would you say the figure in this image is nude and any image it was used in would need the nudity flag placed on it. Dont be frightened to give your own honest opinion on this matter......

do you think she went through your gallery pehaps and meant all your stuff?

she gave an opinion and was confronted about it. you don't have to understand, it's a personal opinion. you posted an image and asked a question about the image. i presume she was talking about the image you posted. whats so confusing

heres my take and i hope it's clear enough for you to understand......i think it should have a nudity tag according to the tos.

billy

connie....if a humanoid doesn't have a dick and wears no clothes it's a naked humanoid. if i had it blew off in the war and walked the streets naked, people may say oooh liz look at that guy with no dick lol but when asked if i were naked or not they would certainly say...he's naked...though he hasn't got a thingy hehe

 obviously the mods dont agree with me cos they didn't put a nudity tag on it lmao

billy

It's certainly an interesting debate.  I should probably go back through my gallery, because I'm sure I've got at least one of those dickless metal men in there somewhere, and I never thought of it as a "nude" simply because there is no depiction of genitalia -- or skin for that matter.

The "David" ... great piece of art, and definitely a nude -- stone or not.  The "Oscar" statuette ... to me not a nude, but I suppose minds could differ on that point.  However, I certainly wouldn't think to put a nudity flag on an image that contained an Oscar.  It just wouldn't occur to me .... not until now anyway ... and it really wouldn't make much sense to me.

Not a matter of whether or not it's "art" ... there's a lot of wonderful artwork out there depicting nude or partially nude characters ... and I agree, some of it is such that you wouldn't want to accidentally spring it on a small child (at least not without an explanation of why the nude is historically important in art ... and good luck with that with a really young child), but getting back to that Oscar, that image is pasted all over the TV screen here in the US at least once every year, and no one thinks twice about it being a "nude."

So, I don't envy AS his job, because I think it's a bit of a gray area.  Wawadave's image seemed to me to be more along the lines of Oscar ... statue with no genitals.  Crazy Dawg's image seemed more like a true nude to me, if only because, as an alien character - I can't honestly say whether there are any genitals showing .... whether that is plain flesh or tattos ....I have no experience with that alien species. 

Seems like it's just a judgement call for everyone.  Artists and AS alike.  And .... people's opinions are going to differ about it. 

Quote - connie....if a humanoid doesn't have a dick and wears no clothes it's a naked humanoid. if i had it blew off in the war and walked the streets naked, people may say oooh liz look at that guy with no dick lol but when asked if i were naked or not they would certainly say...he's naked...though he hasn't got a thingy hehe
obviously the mods dont agree with me cos they didn't put a nudity tag on it lmao
billy

Quote -

Well, this whole thread is under multiple advisories...

I like your analogy!!!!!
So, considered I don't have 'thingie' if I shaved my pubes kept my legs together,  put my fingertips over my nipples, and stuck couple of temporary tatoos on myself,  I'd no longer be nude... or just dip myself into a tub of tie-dye... LOL
Maybe I should go to work like that on monday, see if people think I was 'nude'
Point being here is that an image doesn'thave to be borderline pornographic to be considered 'nude'.
Unfortunately, unlike video games and movies whom have a number of levels in their ratings, here we only have nude and not nude. So... Let's compare to a PG 13, a brief non sexual nudity may be considered ok for PG13. BUT, it's still nudity. So, even if your image may be suitable for pg13, it still may need nudity tag.  Doesn'thave to be nudity with sexual connotation. It's still nudity.
Perhps it is unfortunate that there isn'tamore refined system, but I think that in a current situation it would be completely impractical to have a multi-level nudity and violence advisories...

Sooo, nudity in itself isn't such a bad thing, but, it's also not socially acceptable in every situation. I gather that renderosity caters to a wide range of the audiences, which means, it's a good idea to play it safe.  Nudity tag isn't the same thing as a scarlet letter, ya know. Sure, the auto generated reminders are very curt and impersonal, and it may be an unpleasant experience getting one. Putting a nudity tag on your image isn't a bad thing, doesn't segregate you, nudity isn't a bad thing, and nudity doesn't mean something is bad or smutty. It's just a social courtesy towards other members of the community, to let them know that the content may not be appropriate everywere. A social courtesy that we agred to performing when we quickly glazed over the terms of service when we signed up. You know, once we click on agree, we indicated agreement regardless of whether we bothered to read the fine print or not.

I'm thinking about a word of wisdom or our youngen's ;)... If you're gonna make it a habit push the envelope, you need to learn to not let papercuts upset and discourage you. They come with the territory.

Quote -
We lost a budding new artist when of her images was removed from the gallery and she received a warning message from the PTB. The offending images contained a naked baby fairy in a flower. Naked inasmuch as it wasn't wearing anything, nudity no, because the figure was partially concealed, so nothing "naughty" showed. The result was that my daughter-out-law has removed her entire gallery and has lost interest in producing images.

Did anyone explain or clarify  to the young budding artist that nude doesn't always equal sexual or naughty?

I went to www.m-w.com to look up the definition and synonyms of nude and nudity just to double check that I'm not waaay off. Neitther include sexual connotations. American english synonym for nude is naked and bare, not sexy or provocative or pornographic or naughty or inappropriate or shameful.
It means "without clothes". No more.  Synonyms for naked are: bare, disrobed, nude, stripped, unclad, unclothed, undressed. 
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/nudityRellay, you have to sidestep more then couple of steps to go from nudity to sexuality.

Now, the fact that some men can get turned on by just a show of a bare ankle, and that lot of US social values have puritanical roots whre any hint of sexuality is unfortunately shamed and vilified, and how those are very much in conflict with modern daily lives, and that there's nothing bd about helthy and appropriately exhibited and used sexuality is a whooooole different thread.....

But... here on renderosity it's the matter of social conformance.

In this aspect I'm rather glad I didn't grow up in the US, and don't have an automatic raction of naked=bad, shameful etc... but yet seeing it all aound me. It is a very mixed message we teach our kids, to equate something beautiful and natural with bad and naughty, rather then teaching them there's appropriate time and a place for those things, and how to hanle it in healthy manner.   Like I said, whooole another thread.....

[Note to self: Enough already Kitty, shooo..., off the soapbox !!!!!]

ooookay one more, I can't resist.....

Hands Crazy Dawg a tube of Lamisil for his character....      ;)

[Kitty: ducking and running ---------------------------->]

nudity and sexuality are two different things. the tos (some definitions i argue about but not this one cos it's pretty clear) said no nudes with out a tag. a bnude is a nude is a nude. oscar, you're a nude, a styalised nude but a nude non the less. rendo isn'

t the tv or the oscars so it can make up it's own rules which it does (some need looking at ) we abide by those rules or get warned. i am sure that in the main they use common sense and poor old oscar will get to slip through with out much fuss. but in borderline cases i think the mods tend to pull...(ain't that an image lmao) i could understand a furore if they were being unethical or not allowing nudity but to my mind i think they're fairly fair with the nudity tag. if we can spend the amount of time we have discussing it do we need to be upset at pressing a button.

in some cultures it's deemed rude to walk abot clothed....some people have all the luck i guess lol

billy

ps..it's a lot easier to stop all nudes than to try and differentiate between soft porn and art

Ok, thanks for comments. I just needed to find out if the figure in the image i posted would need a nudity flag on it.

bill423uk, if you had cared to read what i had posted carefully you would have noticed i did say i was a little confused over what chohole ihad wrote and i also pointed out if i have mis-understood it i am sorry. I'm sure many have looked at the few images i have left in my gallery but i don't think anyone would just go there and look to see if i have any images with nudity in them.

Connie, i agree with what you have stated and yes i also think nudity is naked or bare, without clothing.

Anyway i'm glad you all cleared up the one thing i did ask for and now i know, if i don't want to use the nudity flag i have two options. 1 place clothing on that figure or 2 don't use it at all

i did read it ...just struggled with the confusion. i  thought what was written self explanitory.

she thought you needed a nudity tag in response to the question asked. she thpoug the other image shown at the start of the thread also needed a tag, whilst she thought this because of rendos tos it wouldn't necessarily be somethin g she would implement herself if she wrote the tos.....if i made a mistake i apologise

and you don't know it'll get a tag or not, i'd have thought if it was it would have got one already. ask a mod if it's okay. that way you'll know for sure.

billy

@ ConnieKat

The image in question was removed by the PTB because it had a nude or naked baby in it, because rend tos says absolutely no nude images of children. The figure in question was curled up foetal style, with only basically its back showing, hidden within an opening flower. You could not tell if it was a male or female . It was done for my grandaughter, who was not shocked or surprised at it, to show her that baby flower fairies come out of flowers.............well they do don't they?

I just think the rend TOS is too pedantic when you have to clothe a new born. My babes were not born wearing clothes! :huh:

Attached Link: Flickr Art Censorship Debate

And what about the super scantily clad girlie pinup type figures that feature here so much - a token mini-bikini which just covers pubes and nipples in my opinion is not far different from a totally nude figure posed in a modest way - and just as likely to be embarrasing if seen across the office workplace by Connie's co-workers.

The statue of David is clearly a nude human figure with exposed genitalia.  Lots of other classical statuary has discretely posed figures with convenient draped clothing or positioned hands. In Olso Norway there is the Vigeland sculpture park filled with hundreds of human nude figures (including nude children) of all ages and body shapes. Very realistic imagery and the entire park has no warning signs that I remember warning of the nudity when I visited there in 2002. See link: http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/arch/769/Vigeland/

This debate is over self-censorship (in a way) by having the onus on the decision over nudity or violence tagging placed on the poster of the image. A very similar debate is raging at present at Flickr.com over the posting of non-photographic images by artists. If the images are not tagged as not-searchable then the admins blackban the entire account as NIPSA - not in public seach area. I include a link re this.  Let us all hope Renderosity does not ever adopt such a draconian attitude :-)

Sorry, but I've been following this thread and would like to repeat some that has been said so eloquently already.  Nudity is not in itself sexual, objectionable to all or porn.  The question is not that a line was drawn but where it was drawn and the hurt feelings over a an over-reactive worded GENERIC response.

The poor ole mod has a tough job.  AS apologized for the too harsh message sent. 

If the site's PTB consensus is to err on the side of caution then the artists posting here can politely follow R'osities rules and flag an image when it could be considered needing a flag.  Fellow artist, just err on the side of caution also.  Claming to flag all images as nudity because pixals don't have clothes is not a reasonable interpretation.

I agree with conniekat that a lot about this site not the best place for a grandmother or children to view.  My hang up is the thumbs.  What good is it to warn that an image contains nudity if it is already starring me in the face.

It took me 10 minutes to decide whether to click the "post reply" button.  I can see the validity in both sides of the issue.  But I remind myself it is not my site therefore I follow the rules best I can.